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We will always have socialists among us.

It's always amusing to see those with very simplistic views of the world and history start these kinds of threads. It's based on these romantic notions perpetuated by books and movies about the rugged individual who is now supposedly disappearing in favor of some kind of freeloading society.

The truth is humans have been thriving for millions of years by collectively working together to survive and conquer basic needs and only when those needs are met do they start to stratify their groups using any number of models, economic output being just one. Even the supposed "rugged individualist" who went and conquered the west was the rare exception. Those who really settled the west did so because of river traffic and railroads. Look at a map of where major population centers are in the US. This has changed over time based on the value of various resources the nation demanded. None of this was built, managed and maintained by an individual but by the collection cooperation of thousands. Few people want to live a life of complete independence, even thousands of years ago. Hell, our entire country is based on the idea of uniting 13 original colonies into a collective of states.
 
BlueTex said:
The truth is humans have been thriving for millions of years by collectively working together to survive and conquer basic needs and only when those needs are met do they start to stratify their groups using any number of models, economic output being just one.
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They worked voluntarily together, not being ordered to do so by the state and facing severe punishment for refusing to obey.
 
aociswundumho said:
They worked voluntarily together, not being ordered to do so by the state and facing severe punishment for refusing to obey.
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Thanks for demonstrating another example of the lack of knowledge of history.
 
aociswundumho said:
They worked voluntarily together, not being ordered to do so by the state and facing severe punishment for refusing to obey.
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Any time humans work together, there have to be clearly written and well understood rules, and effective means of their enforcement. This is true of clubs, playgrounds, swimming pools, workplaces, schools, the military, neighborhoods, etc...

Who thinks any of those things will work in any functional or sustainable way without rules and a means of enforcing them, purely on a voluntary basis? Why did Trump supporters want a self-proclaimed “law and order” president?
 
bricklayer said:
"From each according to their ability and to each according to their need", only works if it is voluntary. All forms of Marxism, including democratic-socialism, have a completely compulsory nature. The much better model is - From each according to their will and to each according to their ability.
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Can you give an example of it working voluntarily?
 
ataraxia said:
Any time humans work together, there have to be clearly written and well understood rules, and effective means of their enforcement.
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I always find it interesting how you "progressives" can never adequately hide your authoritarian nature.

This is true of clubs, playgrounds, swimming pools, workplaces, schools, the military, neighborhoods, etc...
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Note that you can't even differentiate between voluntary arrangements and coercive institutions.
 
Note that you can't even differentiate between voluntary arrangements and coercive institutions.
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Attending any club, bar/restaurant, or workplace is usually a voluntary choice. But most of them still have detailed and clearly written rules, and effective means of their enforcement.

So are you going to call them all “coercive institutions” and communist dictatorships?
 
CaughtInThe said:
conservatives are taking FEDERAL government welfare as they complain about others.
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Only conservatives? My how shortsighted. Based on the facts, it appears that Ds are the primary users of welfare. Disagree?


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bricklayer said:
No one becomes a socialist. There may be a point in time when one realizes that they are a socialist, but no one becomes a socialist. We are all socialists until we grow up and earn our own money. Socialism is something that we provide to young children while we train them to take authority over and responsibility for themselves. Socialism in one of age is a 'Peter Pan' syndrome. Socialism in one of age is born out of a desire to remain in the socialism of their youth by force of law. We are all born shortsighted, self-centered socialists; maturing is moving away from that condition.

'From each according to their need, and to each according to their ability', only works when it is voluntary. Marxism has a compulsory nature.
'From each according to their will, and to each according to their ability', cannot be compelled. It has a voluntary nature. It must, however, be defended.

We will always have socialists among us for the exact same reason that we will always have the poor among us; it's because we're born that way.
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Socialism, is a soft science. Yaknow, that ones right wingers claim dont really exist.

And no, your prejudices dont count as course study, or knowledge.
 
smallvoice said:
Only conservatives? My how shortsighted. Based on the facts, it appears that Ds are the primary users of welfare. Disagree?
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oh, just about everybody is taking FEDERAL government welfare during this COVID era. even the strong, independent fiscally conservative men and women who have preached their entire lives that doing so was weak and liberal and socialist.

and there you go. their hands are outstretched to Uncle Sam for financial help just like those "weak" welfare queens they speak of. many were never strong and financial stable. they just lied a good game.
 
CaughtInThe said:
oh, just about everybody is taking FEDERAL government welfare during this COVID era. even the strong, independent fiscally conservative men and women who have preached their entire lives that doing so was weak and liberal and socialist.

and there you go. their hands are outstretched to Uncle Sam for financial help just like those "weak" welfare queens they speak of. many were never strong and financial stable. they just lied a good game.
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Do you have a point with that meaningless ramble?

Actually, the hands that are "out" are the Representatives giving money to buy votes. Trump has his votes, and doesn't need to buy them as you Ds do.
 
smallvoice said:
Do you have a point with that meaningless ramble?

Actually, the hands that are "out" are the Representatives giving money to buy votes. Trump has his votes, and doesn't need to buy them as you Ds do.
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yeah, what i just typed. strong and fiscally conservative republicans now have their hands outstretched to be saved by Uncle Sam after preaching how wrong that is.

bunch of liars and fakes.
 
BlueTex said:
Thanks for demonstrating another example of the lack of knowledge of history.
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It appears that you are the history deprived poster here. Humans want to do their own work, and live on the labor they put in. When the economy is such that what someone makes is "bartered" for something that someone else makes, that not socialism, it's capitalism.
 
Guyzilla said:
Socialism, is a soft science. Yaknow, that ones right wingers claim dont really exist.

And no, your prejudices dont count as course study, or knowledge.
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It's not a science. At all.
 
CaughtInThe said:
yeah, what i just typed. strong and fiscally conservative republicans now have their hands outstretched to be saved by Uncle Sam after preaching how wrong that is.

bunch of liars and fakes.
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We do? Got any facts to back your specious claim?
 
j brown's body said:
Can you give an example of it working voluntarily?
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Marxism has a compulsory nature.

From each according to their ability and to each according to their need works in families.
 
BlueTex said:
It's always amusing to see those with very simplistic views of the world and history start these kinds of threads. It's based on these romantic notions perpetuated by books and movies about the rugged individual who is now supposedly disappearing in favor of some kind of freeloading society.

The truth is humans have been thriving for millions of years by collectively working together to survive and conquer basic needs and only when those needs are met do they start to stratify their groups using any number of models, economic output being just one. Even the supposed "rugged individualist" who went and conquered the west was the rare exception. Those who really settled the west did so because of river traffic and railroads. Look at a map of where major population centers are in the US. This has changed over time based on the value of various resources the nation demanded. None of this was built, managed and maintained by an individual but by the collection cooperation of thousands. Few people want to live a life of complete independence, even thousands of years ago. Hell, our entire country is based on the idea of uniting 13 original colonies into a collective of states.
Click to expand...

You're correct to write that "human beings have been thriving for millions of years by collectively working together to survive and concur basic needs[sic]", therefore there is no need to compel them to do so. I do not have a problem with cooperation; I have a problem with coercion.
 
aociswundumho said:
They worked voluntarily together, not being ordered to do so by the state and facing severe punishment for refusing to obey.
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Your comment is a good example of thinking up really stupid ways of doing something and then insisting that it has to be done that way.
 
smallvoice said:
We do? Got any facts to back your specious claim?
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hang on. are you saying that fiscal conservatives didn't have a problem with people receiving welfare before?


oh, man. this is so perfect. please say that's true.
 
CaughtInThe said:
hang on. are you saying that fiscal conservatives didn't have a problem with people receiving welfare before?


oh, man. this is so perfect. please say that's true.
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I ask you for facts, and you came back with crap. Never try to put words in my mouth. Apparently, you don't want a conversation.

Who are the two dudes in your avatar?
 
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