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We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

Abortions only take place during pregnancy.

All the zygotes ( about two- thirds ) that never implant plus the zygotes that self abort during the first week of implantation and all those spontaneous abortions ( miscarriages ) that occur making up the vast majority of fertilized human eggs have already aborted themselves.

I was a zygote once, as all humans must go through that developmental stage. I was also once a 23 year old man. All people spontaneously die as well - the death rate is 100%.
 
None of which refutes my statement. I am for freedom. I am against authoritarian dictat.

If you're for freedom (which is a nice thing to be for), but wouldn't undergo the procedure yourself, this suggests that the procedure is a negative. Perhaps under certain circumstances you would consent to the procedure? For example, I may consent if I had a grievous disability with no hope for recovery. However, in perfect health and developing like any other human would (including the aborter), I would not consent. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.
 
I was a zygote once, as all humans must go through that developmental stage. I was also once a 23 year old man. All people spontaneously die as well - the death rate is 100%.

And there is no such thing as abortion after birth.

Yes , people may spontaneously die but only the unborn spontaneously abort.
 
And there is no such thing as abortion after birth.

Yes , people may spontaneously die but only the unborn spontaneously abort.

Technically correct. However, I don't think this kind of thought process results in a perfectly healthy, happy, normal adult deciding to commit suicide. Usually there's got to be something wrong for that to happen. I'll be on board for the abortion of healthy, normal fetuses when normal, healthy people start killing themselves.
 
I don't think "empowerment of women" cures poverty.

There are lots of countries with fairly restrictive abortion policies like Ireland and Germany and for that matter most of Europe but still have high GDP and low poverty rates.

And there are countries like China where you can get an abortion right up until the day of birth minus one where the 900 million peasants who don't live in the cities are as poor as anyone on the planet.

While abortion may not cure poverty it does empower women and gives us more of even chance.

As Justice Ginsburg says: “ the decision whether to bear a child or not is central to a woman’s her life, to her well - being and dignity.
It’s a decision she must make for herself.


When the government controls that decision for her she is being treated as less than a fully adult human responsible for her own decisions.”
 
Technically correct. However, I don't think this kind of thought process results in a perfectly healthy, happy, normal adult deciding to commit suicide. Usually there's got to be something wrong for that to happen. I'll be on board for the abortion of healthy, normal fetuses when normal, healthy people start killing themselves.

92 percent of non spontaneous abortions occur in the United States during the first trimester. Over 60 percent in the first 8 weeks before the unborn is even a fetus.

BTW gestation is counted from the first day of the period so a woman is counted as 2 gestational weeks pregnant on the day she conceives.
 
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... I'll be on board for the abortion of healthy, normal fetuses when normal, healthy people start killing themselves.

Actually suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the United States.

More facts:

The age-adjusted suicide rate in 2017 was 14.0 per 100,000 individuals.

The rate of suicide is highest in middle-age white men in particular.

In 2017, men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women.

On average, there are 129 suicides per day.

White males accounted for 69.67% of suicide deaths in 2017.

In 2017, firearms accounted for 50.57% of all suicides.
 
If you're for freedom (which is a nice thing to be for), but wouldn't undergo the procedure yourself, this suggests that the procedure is a negative. Perhaps under certain circumstances you would consent to the procedure? For example, I may consent if I had a grievous disability with no hope for recovery. However, in perfect health and developing like any other human would (including the aborter), I would not consent. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

How can I undergo an abortion?

Freedom says the individual chooses. Not the state. Not you. Not the church.

Dont like abortion? Dont get one.

Stop trying to force everyone else to agree with your choices.
 
So you agree the guy in the opening post is full of **** when he says empowerment cures poverty. Glad to hear it.

The only ones full of **** are those espousing an anti freedom religious dictat agenda of control.
 
If someone is willing to treat another person in a manner which they themselves would not want to be treated, I'm highly suspicious of the motives for such treatment. As such, I 'might' be for abortion once proponents practice it on themselves. Then again I'd view the procedure as extremely self-destructive.

That you believe the unborn is a 'someone' is your personal belief. Not something to be forced on others.

I'm highly suspicious of people that self-indulgently imagine and personalize what's going on inside women they dont even know and and then feel they have the right to encourage their lawmakers to impose that indulgence on those women.

Do you endorse laws against elective abortion?
 
If you're for freedom (which is a nice thing to be for), but wouldn't undergo the procedure yourself, this suggests that the procedure is a negative. Perhaps under certain circumstances you would consent to the procedure? For example, I may consent if I had a grievous disability with no hope for recovery. However, in perfect health and developing like any other human would (including the aborter), I would not consent. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Lots of decisions we make in life are hard, or seem negative. Like divorce. One of the most difficult, stressful decisions people make in life. But the make it with the belief that it is best for their future and that of their family (current and future). And in the long run, it usually is the right decision.

There arent always positive solutions to problems...adults in America have the right to decide which are in their best interests, those of their family responsibilities, and to their commitments and obligations to employer, community, society, etc.

Just because it's a tough decision doesnt make it wrong.
 
Technically correct. However, I don't think this kind of thought process results in a perfectly healthy, happy, normal adult deciding to commit suicide. Usually there's got to be something wrong for that to happen. I'll be on board for the abortion of healthy, normal fetuses when normal, healthy people start killing themselves.

People choose to give up life for other things all the time: family, religion, their country, principles, etc. I hope you dont believe that you nor the govt have the right to assume what individual people would choose?

Btw, there have been at least 5 people now, on this sub-forum, that have said they wished that they had been aborted. As sad as that is...think about how small a sampling this forum is of the general population and then realize that you cannot assume for others.
 
The cure for poverty is create jobs and educating people with the skills to fill them.
 
So you agree the guy in the opening post is full of **** when he says empowerment cures poverty. Glad to hear it.

Not at all. Empowering women is an important and successful way to increase health, education, and financial security. And there are many philanthropic initiatives focused on that across the globe.

I worked at the Gates Foundation for 2 years. Empowering women in developing nations is one of their biggest focuses and recipient causes.

Education, reproductive freedom and options, support in community and business participation, and generally demonstrating how independence and value promote healthier children, families, and communities.
 
So you agree the guy in the opening post is full of **** when he says empowerment cures poverty. Glad to hear it.

While access to abortion is not the cure of poverty, not having access to an abortion can cause some women to enter into poverty or continue to stay in poverty.

The quickest way into poverty is being a young single mom.

From the following study:

Now, a group of public health researchers are studying how abortion really affects women.

For the past four years, researchers from the San Francisco-based Advancing New Standards in Public Health have followed the lives of nearly 1,000 women who have sought abortions in clinics across the country, interviewing them about their physical and mental health, their careers and finances, their relationships and social lives, and their feelings toward abortion—one of the first studies of its kind.

Most of the women in the study secured the abortion they sought (and 97 percent did not regret it

82 of them were turned away because their pregnancies had advanced past the gestational limit in their state. Ninety percent of those women carried the pregnancy to term and began raising the kid—a pro-lifer’s dream.

And how were these women doing one year later? Annalee Newitz of io9 spoke with the researchers about their study (which is still ongoing).

They found that a year after the event, the women who were turned away from an abortion were more likely to rely on government assistance, more likely to be living beneath the poverty line, and less likely to have a full-time job than the women in the study who had obtained abortions.

They also registered more anxiety a week after they were denied an abortion and reported more stress a year out. They were no more or less likely to be depressed.


And women who gave birth suffered from more serious health complications—from hemorrhaging to a fractured pelvis—than the women who aborted, even later in their pregnancies.


Happy home lives also failed to materialize. The women who were turned away were more than twice as likely to be a victim of domestic violence as those who were able to abort.
The researchers found that “a year after being denied an abortion, 7 percent reported an incident of domestic violence in the last six months,” compared to 3 percent of the women who received abortions.[/B] The researchers concluded that this “wasn't because the turnaways were more likely to get into abusive relationships,” but that “getting abortions allowed women to get out of such relationships more easily.”

Carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term helped abusive men stay in these women’s lives, but it didn’t encourage delinquent new dads to stick around:

The turnaway study: What happens to women who are denied abortions?
 
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Not at all. Empowering women is an important and successful way to increase health, education, and financial security. And there are many philanthropic initiatives focused on that across the globe.

But it doesn't cure poverty. I see you left that one out, so I assume you agree with me too.
 
But it doesn't cure poverty. I see you left that one out, so I assume you agree with me too.

Wow. What do you think financial security is?
 
The quickest way into poverty is being a young single mom.

Boy that is sure positively true. Being a single mom doesn't lock you into a life of poverty, but the chance of a host of social pathologies like poverty, dropping out of school, joining a gang, criminal activity, growing up to be a single parent yourself are all hugely increased.
 
Wow. What do you think financial security is?

I think you're saying bull**** that sounds good instead of paying attention to facts.

If you think abortion cures poverty, then why aren't Irish and German women living in poverty? Why are Chinese women poor?
 
I think you're saying bull**** that sounds good instead of paying attention to facts.

If you think abortion cures poverty, then why aren't Irish and German women living in poverty? Why are Chinese women poor?

You arent very good at connecting dots are you? Abortion is a choice...not forced on women. So how can it be a cure for anything except to empower individual women in the community...by enabling them to be freer to act as I wrote?

Empowering women is an important and successful way to increase health, education, and financial security. And there are many philanthropic initiatives focused on that across the globe.

Education, reproductive freedom and options, support in community and business participation, and generally demonstrating how independence and value promote healthier children, families, and communities.

And the cumulative effect of empowering women is what the OP is about, as well as my statement.

If your thinking apparatus is so limited that you cant connect these dots...that's not a problem I can fix for you.
 
You arent very good at connecting dots are you? Abortion is a choice...not forced on women. So how can it be a cure for anything except to empower individual women in the community...by enabling them to be freer to act as I wrote?





And the cumulative effect of empowering women is what the OP is about, as well as my statement.

If your thinking apparatus is so limited that you cant connect these dots...that's not a problem I can fix for you.

I don't need your fixing, which would make me as foppish and PC as you.

Abortion is not a cure for poverty.
 
Why is it that progressives have this authoritarian need to "fix" people who have different opinions than themselves? Agree to disagree is not in their worldview.
 
I don't need your fixing, which would make me as foppish and PC as you.

Abortion is not a cure for poverty.

You havent proven that...it could only be the cure for poverty if it was actually the cause of it.

Like I said...your thinking apparatus isnt the sharpest. LOL, I'm pretty sure you havent even understood what I posted...since you havent been capable of actually arguing it.


Pssssssssst! How are women 'foppish?'
 
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