We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

[Lursa]

American's beliefs, at least for their selfish selves, are to stay alive. That's why so many choose to stay alive. When it comes to people other than themselves, particularly those in the unborn stage, half of Americans don't really care, because after all, they made it past their unborn stage. It's not their life that's ending.

Nope...I wrote that you were wrong about that and you have not addressed that. Please do. Follow the arrows back to the post and do so. It wouldnt be such a long journey back if you had made an honest attempt to answer it at the time.

 

[year2late]

This was over 30 years ago. Who do you know discussed abortion back then?

30 years again 1989....dude....seriously.....people didn't discuss consequences of sex in the heart of the AIDS epidemic? Really?

 

[WCH]

ALL surgery is unnatural.

There is nothing miraculous about birth. It happens a zillion times a day all over the world, among humans and most mammals.

According to you gals on this forum, it's a miracle pregnancy doesn't kill you all.

I know that you have to dispute the miracle of life in order to feed your killing frenzy but, don't go spreading that heresy around.

 

[Iron_Merc]

Now where do black Americans fall on the socio-economic scale? Probably comparable. High risks in those areas is what drives women to abort...the lists of reasons are very clear...there's no programs or initiative targeting any race or women, period. Women who dont feel they can safely support a child, or another child, must make the best decisions they can.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I now understand that Mrs. Sanger was not out to exterminate the black population. Merely condition the race, for optimal socio-economic results. And that in and of itself presents a problem, but is NOT the same as wanting to "exterminate" the black race.

The best decision is to avoid the practice of sexual promiscuity altogether. It seems Planned Parenthood is resigned in their assessment that sexual promiscuity is running rampant and cannot be stopped. They seem resigned to their fate of handing out birth control measures as opposed to correcting the behavior that leads to abortions in the first place. Planned Parenthood is falling to address the moral issues that create the environment for rampant abortions in the first place.

 

[WCH]

30 years again 1989....dude....seriously.....people didn't discuss consequences of sex in the heart of the AIDS epidemic? Really?

We discussed having and raising a baby. If it weren't for her mother's input, that's what would have happened. I came home from work one day to an unpregnant GF.

 

[Rickeroo]

Nope...I wrote that you were wrong about that and you have not addressed that. Please do. Follow the arrows back to the post and do so. It wouldnt be such a long journey back if you had made an honest attempt to answer it at the time.

Wrong about Americans not wanting to stay alive? I beg to differ.

 

[WCH]

It's not DEvalued persay, just less valuable than the woman it's inside of. Bodily autonomy for the sapient and self-aware comes far before the bodily autonomy of those that only exist as growing clumps of meat inside of the sapient and self-aware.

Fetuses aren't babies.

It's life and you guys are less than human.

 

[Lursa]

Wrong about Americans not wanting to stay alive? I beg to differ.

See...you have bobbed and weaved so much in your attempts to divert from an argument you cant refute...you've moved along far enough to pretend you didnt read it.

And your pretense is nothing but failure. I see no point in continuing with someone so incapable of debating honestly. Perhaps I'll grab my argument from OneNote again later.

 

[year2late]

We discussed having and raising a baby. If it weren't for her mother's input, that's what would have happened. I came home from work one day to an unpregnant GF.

So, in the heart of the AIDS epidemic, you had unsafe sex with a person you were not committed to and are surprised she decided to have an abortion.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

It's life and you guys are less than human.

Everything on earth with DNA is life. A fetus is no more a person than any of the other non-persons on the planet.

 

[WCH]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I now understand that Mrs. Sanger was not out to exterminate the black population. Merely condition the race, for optimal socio-economic results. And that in and of itself presents a problem, but is NOT the same as wanting to "exterminate" the black race.

The best decision is to avoid the practice of sexual promiscuity altogether. It seems Planned Parenthood is resigned in their assessment that sexual promiscuity is running rampant and cannot be stopped. They seem resigned to their fate of handing out birth control measures as opposed to correcting the behavior that leads to abortions in the first place. Planned Parenthood is falling to address the moral issues that create the environment for rampant abortions in the first place.

She was on the same level as Hitler as far as eugenics.

YouTube

She calls anyone who she doesn't believe contributes to mankind, sick human weeds.

 

[Lursa]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I now understand that Mrs. Sanger was not out to exterminate the black population. Merely condition the race, for optimal socio-economic results. And that in and of itself presents a problem, but is NOT the same as wanting to "exterminate" the black race.

yes, because individuals and society are better off when mothers/parents are mentally and financially prepared and able to care for their young. That goes for all, not just some races.

The best decision is to avoid the practice of sexual promiscuity altogether. It seems Planned Parenthood is resigned in their assessment that sexual promiscuity is running rampant and cannot be stopped. They seem resigned to their fate of handing out birth control measures as opposed to correcting the behavior that leads to abortions in the first place. Planned Parenthood is falling to address the moral issues that create the environment for rampant abortions in the first place.

Adults are entitled to enjoy consensual sex...it's a wonderful, bonding thing. As Minnie has posted for you, most couples have sex responsibly (using bc). And women have safer, responsible options to becoming mothers if they arent prepared to be.

It's certainly not up to you to tell the rest of us not to enjoy one of God's greatest gifts.

 

[Iron_Merc]

No numbers required, although they do demonstrate the significance of "I", in "I was the unborn". That phrase is true for every person walking the Earth today.

When abortion is championed, it decreases the sanctity of my own life, because I was once the unborn. It also decreases the value of my children's lives, since they were also unborn. Because there is abortion on demand, my mother could have aborted me on a whim. All my experiences since then would have never taken place. I value those experiences, and the continuation of them. Sacrifice that because my mom thought she "couldn't afford" me? Nope.

If I "didn't care" if I was aborted - if I truly did not care - I would then consider my life worthless and commit suicide, or at the very least not cared whether I lived or died. I don't feel that way, and I suspect that 99% of aborted fetuses, if allowed to live, would feel the same way to. Actually closer to 99.9%.

Very well said! Abortion proponents fail to see the fetus as a "human being" so naturally, the intrinsic value of a fetus is equivalent to absolutely nothing, just a bundle of cells with no real purpose or value. This view point is very damaging and takes for granted both the sanctity of life and all the men and women who have fought to PRESERVE life as opposed to DESTROY it. Abortion proponents seem to take a cavalier attitude to the whole idea of reproduction and the miracle of birth. It's like they are dealing with death and abortion as if its just like throwing trash in the garbage. Absolutely incredible! And 100% anti social behavior. God VALUES life ------- Satan DESCRATES life. And this devaluation of life proves the evolution to socialist is very real and quite feasible for members of the left.

 

[Rickeroo]

See...you have bobbed and weaved so much in your attempts to divert from an argument you cant refute...you've moved along far enough to pretend you didnt read it.

And your pretense is nothing but failure. I see no point in continuing with someone so incapable of debating honestly. Perhaps I'll grab my argument from OneNote again later.

Admittedly, it will be an uphill battle convincing me that abortion on demand, for any reason whatsoever, is a morally correct thing to do. I've already stated that the mother's life is worth more than the fetus's life. However, her "convenience", "feelings", "empowering women" or other nonsense is most certainly not worth the fetus's life. I would not have made that trade. There is no way I would have made that trade if I had a voice. Convincing me that I would have made the trade, or not have cared had someone made that trade for me, sounds like a lie to me. My very existence, and that of my children, is being put into question with arguments for on-demand abortion.

Then again, it's not me being aborted, and I can never be aborted - I'm safe. You 'may' be able to appeal to that extreme lack of empathy, but it goes against one of my core concepts.

 

[Rickeroo]

Very well said! Abortion proponents fail to see the fetus as a "human being" so naturally, the intrinsic value of a fetus is equivalent to absolutely nothing, just a bundle of cells with no real purpose or value. This view point is very damaging and takes for granted both the sanctity of life and all the men and women who have fought to PRESERVE life as opposed to DESTROY it. Abortion proponents seem to take a cavalier attitude to the whole idea of reproduction and the miracle of birth. It's like they are dealing with death and abortion as if its just like throwing trash in the garbage. Absolutely incredible! And 100% anti social behavior. God VALUES life ------- Satan DESCRATES life. And this devaluation of life proves the evolution to socialist is very real and quite feasible for members of the left.

Actually I think being anti-abortion doesn't have to involve religion at all. Not all Americans are religious, yet 99.9% and more of them choose to stay alive each year, they "choose" life. "I was unborn" transcends law, religion, and politics. It is an immutable fact.

 

[Iron_Merc]

yes, because individuals and society are better off when mothers/parents are mentally and financially prepared and able to care for their young. That goes for all, not just some races.



Adults are entitled to enjoy consensual sex...it's a wonderful, bonding thing. As Minnie has posted for you, most couples have sex responsibly (using bc). And women have safer, responsible options to becoming mothers if they arent prepared to be.

It's certainly not up to you to tell the rest of us not to enjoy one of God's greatest gifts.

The left has a major problem admitting their are consequences to actions. Accountability? No, that's an attribute only conservatives have.
The hard truth is you don't want to be accountable to God. Rebellion comes from pride. And in pride is death. No doubt about that.
As for mothers not being prepared to care for their young, well that's the problem. But the left will automatically assume that a mother with limited means should not have children? what gives you the right to dictate who should and should not have abortions? That's fascist and racist as far as I'm concerned.

And besides, there is NO NEED for abortion in general. Why not give the baby a chance through adoption? Don't you think I live baby is happier than a dead one? Remember, satan kills life, God creates life. Now frame that under the perspective of abortion. I can assure you, you don't want to be on the wrong side of history here.

Also Lursa, your signature takes up more room than most of your posts. You might consider shortening it (just an honest observation, nothing personal)

 

[Iron_Merc]

Actually I think being anti-abortion doesn't have to involve religion at all. Not all Americans are religious, yet 99.9% and more of them choose to stay alive each year, they "choose" life. "I was unborn" transcends law, religion, and politics. It is an immutable fact.

I get your point and agree to some extent (that a non religious based argument against abortion could be made.) But invoking the sanctity of life phrase is most certainly, at it core, anchored to religion and God.

From Wikipedia:

The phrase sanctity of life refers to the idea that human life is sacred, holy, and precious, argued mainly by the pro-life side in political and moral debates over such controversial issues as abortion, contraception, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, and the "right to die" in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom and other English-speaking countries. (Comparable phrases are also used in other languages.) Although the phrase was used primarily in the 19th century in Protestant discourse, after World War II the phrase has been used in Catholic moral theology and, following Roe v. Wade, Evangelical Christian moral rhetoric.
The sanctity of life principle, which is often contrasted with the "quality of life" to some extent, is the basis of all Catholic teaching about the fifth commandment in the Ten Commandments.

 

[Iron_Merc]

Everything on earth with DNA is life. A fetus is no more a person than any of the other non-persons on the planet.

This should put things in perspective for you. By the way, the DNA of a fetus is different than that of the mother or father. So the idea that "I have a right to do whatever I want with my body" gets blown out of the water because a separate and distinct life form is living inside you.

Another thing, you don't have a right to do whatever you want with your body. For example, prostitution is illegal.

 

[Lursa]

The left has a major problem admitting their are consequences to actions. Accountability? No, that's an attribute only conservatives have.
The hard truth is you don't want to be accountable to God. Rebellion comes from pride. And in pride is death. No doubt about that.
As for mothers not being prepared to care for their young, well that's the problem. But the left will automatically assume that a mother with limited means should not have children? what gives you the right to dictate who should and should not have abortions? That's fascist and racist as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, it seems you are the one who is uninformed on consequences and the responsible ways to avoid forcing them on others and society.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid you cant afford and expecting tax payers to take up that burden with public assistance.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid you arent emotionally prepared to have and may abuse or neglect.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid if you know you wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc that will damage the unborn.

--There's nothing responsible about remaining pregnant and dropping out of high school or college or missing work and not fulfilling your potential in society.

--There's nothing responsible about remaining pregnant/having a child and not being able to fulfill your other commitments and obligations to family, dependents, employer, church, community, society.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid and giving it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 kids in America waiting to be adopted. It means one less waiting will find a home.

And besides, there is NO NEED for abortion in general. Why not give the baby a chance through adoption? Don't you think I live baby is happier than a dead one? Remember, satan kills life, God creates life. Now frame that under the perspective of abortion. I can assure you, you don't want to be on the wrong side of history here.

And you are wrong here as well (see the last point above. And that's not kids in foster care...that # is 400,000). For every newborn added to that giant pool of kids hoping and waiting for homes...one of those will go without. Each new one means that another kid will remain hoping and waiting...suffering. Why would you encourage women to do something so sad and painful if she does not choose to? The unborn suffers nothing.

what gives you the right to dictate who should and should not have abortions? That's fascist and racist as far as I'm concerned.

Apparently you dont understand what the 'choice' part of 'pro-choice' means.

It means that every woman chooses for herself and is not bound to follow others' personal beliefs. It means she chooses what is best for the entirety of her life, her responsibilities to her dependents, and her commitments and obligations to employer, church, community, society, etc.

 

[Rickeroo]

I get your point and agree to some extent (that a non religious based argument against abortion could be made.) But invoking the sanctity of life phrase is most certainly, at it core, anchored to religion and God.

From Wikipedia:

The phrase sanctity of life refers to the idea that human life is sacred, holy, and precious, argued mainly by the pro-life side in political and moral debates over such controversial issues as abortion, contraception, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, and the "right to die" in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom and other English-speaking countries. (Comparable phrases are also used in other languages.) Although the phrase was used primarily in the 19th century in Protestant discourse, after World War II the phrase has been used in Catholic moral theology and, following Roe v. Wade, Evangelical Christian moral rhetoric.
The sanctity of life principle, which is often contrasted with the "quality of life" to some extent, is the basis of all Catholic teaching about the fifth commandment in the Ten Commandments.

I concur that sanctity of life is a big part of religion. But even atheists don't kill themselves wholesale. There is natural law at work.

 

[Lursa]

This should put things in perspective for you. By the way, the DNA of a fetus is different than that of the mother or father. So the idea that "I have a right to do whatever I want with my body" gets blown out of the water because a separate and distinct life form is living inside you.

What is actually relevant here is...how many healthy fetuses are aborted 15 minutes before birth?

Do you know? I do. None.

Do you know how many healthy viable fetuses are electively aborted, period? (Viability is ~24 weeks) None.

If you disagree, please post some current sources that prove otherwise.

So my question is to you...Mr. Conservative, supporter of smaller govt and less govt interference in private lives: why do you support useless, 'feel-good' legislation?

 

[Bodi]

Man, those are some crazy numbers. Good thing fetuses are nonsentient clumps of meat with no actual sentience or personhood, otherwise it would be bad to abort them.

WRONG! They are clumps of cells...

 

[Bodi]

because a separate and distinct life form is living inside you.

 

[Lursa]

I concur that sanctity of life is a big part of religion. But even atheists don't kill themselves wholesale. There is natural law at work.

Yes...that of consenting adults to choose for themselves and not have strangers like you or the govt decide for them or assume they *know* what the unborn would want. :roll:

People choose to give up life for other things all the time: family, religion, their country, principles, etc. I hope you dont believe that you nor the govt have the right to assume what individual people would choose?

Btw, there have been at least 5 people now, on this sub-forum, that have said they wished that they had been aborted. As sad as that is...think about how small a sampling this forum is of the general population and then realize that you cannot assume for others.​

You were never able to directly address this ^^, you only replied with dehumanizing numbers and your personal feelings on your own life.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

This should put things in perspective for you. By the way, the DNA of a fetus is different than that of the mother or father. So the idea that "I have a right to do whatever I want with my body" gets blown out of the water because a separate and distinct life form is living inside you.

Another thing, you don't have a right to do whatever you want with your body. For example, prostitution is illegal.

View attachment 67263999

First off, that's literal bull**** and you should start checking your sources before buying into a blatant lie like that again. As for the rest of your post: prostitution should also be legal, but with enough social safety nets to keep people from being forced into it against their will, and the unique DNA in a fetus doesn't indicate personhood. A conjoined twin that's stuck inside of someone's abdomen might very well have its own unique DNA, but that doesn't mean that it's a person either.