We have a tratior in the White House

[Xelor]

I have defended Senator Paul on many things, but his interview with Blitzer was jaw-dropping. Yes, he's right that we should work diplomatically with our enemies. Yes he's right we are very guilty of the same tactics we are accusing Russia of (and worse). That does not mean we should just ignore what happened and ignore the fact our president kisses the ass of a murderous dictator while undermining our intelligence community.

I too have, in large measure, thought of Paul as a reasonable enough individual. I preferred hid dad for more so than I do him, however.

Of late, though, Rand has been disappointing. He caved on the deficit and that's about when I stopped trusting him.

 

[veritas1]

I literally just said it isn't treason.

No, nor is it close to treason, resembling treason or in the same universe as treason. Those claims are hysterical posturing. Trump got off track in the press conference and answered questions he should have ignored. That is not treason. He confirmed that Putin denied meddling as everyone knew he would and left it at that. That is not treason. Trump haters have to stop doing the work of our enemies, which is to sow discord here and get us attacking each other. The response to Trump for Democrats is to field an intelligent candidate with reasonable policies to oppose him. The farther left and more hysterical they get, the more they guarantee Trump until 2025.

 

[Luckyone]

You are talking about how Trump haters view these events. They were never going to view them favorably regardless of what Trump did.

There is a much more reasonable way to view these events, which is about the leaders of powerful states negotiating and discussing issues of mutual interest.

"You are talking about how Trump haters view these events" No, I am talking about how the whole world is viewing this event. How else can an event be viewed when two gang leaders get together and one says the other is right and is the leader now? Can it be viewed any other way? Trump gave up his turf. Putin can now even bomb us as Trump would likely say "it's our fault, it is Obama's fault, we deserve to be bombed. Whatever Putin says is now the law. Live with it".

Let's face it, he bent over for Putin. You hero, your God has thrown you and everyone else in the U.S. under the bus so Trump's lord doesn't spill the beans on how he has Trump by the you-know-what and has him on a tether licking his butt.

 

[Nickyjo]

Which is why he signed up to serve forfeiting much of his wealth and putting himself up for constant abuse by nearly the entire leadership class....

And folks talk about how Trump supporters lack reasoning ability!

What wealth did he forfeit? Have you seen his tax returns? The audit is still going on, apparently. He got the presidency, for him the equivalent of another attractive woman on his arm, and instead of putting his wealth into some sort of blind trust, he turned business over to his daughter and son-in-law, then invited them into the WH. He is there to serve his wealth, not forfeit it.

He brings the abuse on himself by his insults of so many people and nationalities. Look at his slogan, “Make America Hate Again.”

Poor baby!

 

[Geoist]

No, nor is it close to treason, resembling treason or in the same universe as treason. Those claims are hysterical posturing. Trump got off track in the press conference and answered questions he should have ignored. That is not treason. He confirmed that Putin denied meddling as everyone knew he would and left it at that. That is not treason. Trump haters have to stop doing the work of our enemies, which is to sow discord here and get us attacking each other. The response to Trump for Democrats is to field an intelligent candidate with reasonable policies to oppose him. The farther left and more hysterical they get, the more they guarantee Trump until 2025.

He did not just confirm Putin denied meddling, he sided with Putin on that very issue over our intelligence community. We may not be at war with Russia, but they are very far from being our ally.

 

[Luckyone]

Here, take a look again at what Trump said yesterday in Helsinki and laugh a little. Laughter is the best medicine when you are facing Cancer taking over your body.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/-helsinki-has-frozen-over-late-night-hosts-mock-trump-putin-summit-1279321155876

 

[ataraxia]

Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post

He has refused to address well-established, significant foreign threats to the country, for personal reasons.

Nope. Not true by a long shot. Especially if you're talking about Russia, which has gotten more severe treatment from Trump that it got from Obama.

Wow. Just wow.

There really is nothing more to say to that, except maybe "how is the weather in Moscow this time of year?"

 

[Luckyone]

No, nor is it close to treason, resembling treason or in the same universe as treason. Those claims are hysterical posturing. Trump got off track in the press conference and answered questions he should have ignored. That is not treason. He confirmed that Putin denied meddling as everyone knew he would and left it at that. That is not treason. Trump haters have to stop doing the work of our enemies, which is to sow discord here and get us attacking each other. The response to Trump for Democrats is to field an intelligent candidate with reasonable policies to oppose him. The farther left and more hysterical they get, the more they guarantee Trump until 2025.

"No, this isn't treason" Try to tell that to the UCLA alumni when they saw the Dean of the school cheering for USC. Or perhaps a better example is Benedict Arnold which is considered to be the biggest traitor the U.S. has ever had:

Benedict Arnold (January 14, 1741 [O.S. January 3, 1740][1][2] – June 14, 1801) was an American military officer who served as a general during the American Revolutionary War, fighting for the American Continental Army before defecting to the British in 1780. He had George Washington's fullest confidence, and Washington gave him command of the fortifications at West Point, New York. Arnold planned to surrender them to British forces, but the plot was discovered in September 1780 and Arnold fled to the British. His name quickly became a byword in the United States for treason and betrayal because he betrayed his countrymen by leading the British army in battle against the men whom he once commanded.[3]

Yesterday, Trump stated (when next to Putin) that Putin's idea of our intelligence department working with Putin's GRU department in trying to solve the issue about who hacked into our computers was a GREAT idea. Lets surrender all of our intelligence methods and contacts to Putin so he can prevent being discovered the next time that he meddles with our election.

That is being a Patriot? No, that is being a Traitor!

 

[SoCal]

Did you see a link?

This is ME silly, your link to my brain was my post.

Well maybe not for you and other Trumpetts, but your inability to find a link to a quote of him criticizing the behavior of Putin, Kim Jong-un or some other major dictator or non-white nation, besides one of our allies, speaks volumes to everyone else...

 

[SoCal]

Maybe because they tried to disrupt and influence the US Presidential elections? Subvert US democracy to their benefit? Murder dissidents on UK soil?

The first outrages acts you point out are reason enough, but maybe some confused folks never learned about the downsides of not standing up to a bully, even if it results in a bloody nose. Acting weak and cowardly is no help to anyone, except Republicans who live in their red states and of course Trump himself...

 

[veritas1]

He did not just confirm Putin denied meddling, he sided with Putin on that very issue over our intelligence community. We may not be at war with Russia, but they are very far from being our ally.

I agree they are not our ally and I don't think Trump thinks they are our ally, either.

 

[SoCal]

Agreed, this discipline needs to be practiced by folks on all "sides", because ultimately, despite what you've kinda been force fed for however long now, you're all on the same side. We were simply talking about word choice, and the reaction that took place today. Ok, fine, everyone have their freak out, good grief there are enough reasons to be angry...but maybe tomorrow shake yourselves off, and figure out how to reduce the crazy. Cuz things are looking a lil crazy...

If nothing else, both sides of the debate should be getting the idea that you can't just shluff all this off onto the government, stick to the script, and hope for the best. Neither side is really getting what they want right now (even if they are not aware, or too partisan to admit it), and the price they're paying for getting nothing is more than what I'd personally consider worth it to get what I do want. I sincerely hope that better days lie ahead for both sides, but I don't think you guys get there unless you get there together.

I generally agree about the need to move forward together as you point out. But surely you must know that one side has a majority of people willing to compromise and the other who feel that compromise is giving up their principles.

I'll let everyone decided which one needs to move more toward the middle for a workable compromise...

 

[LowDown]

"You are talking about how Trump haters view these events" No, I am talking about how the whole world is viewing this event. How else can an event be viewed when two gang leaders get together and one says the other is right and is the leader now? Can it be viewed any other way? Trump gave up his turf. Putin can now even bomb us as Trump would likely say "it's our fault, it is Obama's fault, we deserve to be bombed. Whatever Putin says is now the law. Live with it".

Let's face it, he bent over for Putin. You hero, your God has thrown you and everyone else in the U.S. under the bus so Trump's lord doesn't spill the beans on how he has Trump by the you-know-what and has him on a tether licking his butt.

Whoa. That's pretty primitive, bro.

 

[OlNate]

I generally agree about the need to move forward together as you point out. But surely you must know that one side has a majority of people willing to compromise and the other who feel that compromise is giving up their principles.

I'll let everyone decided which one needs to move more toward the middle for a workable compromise...

I get you, brother, I do...but if you're on a boat in the middle of the ocean, doesn't matter who made the hole, I guarantee you're all bailing. Sometimes survival is more important than blame...just something to reflect on.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I agree they are not our ally and I don't think Trump thinks they are our ally, either.

No, but, [/b] HE [/b] thinks Putin owns his ass, that's why he takes Putin's side over his own Government.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Originally Posted by Luckyone
"You are talking about how Trump haters view these events" No, I am talking about how the whole world is viewing this event. How else can an event be viewed when two gang leaders get together and one says the other is right and is the leader now? Can it be viewed any other way? Trump gave up his turf. Putin can now even bomb us as Trump would likely say "it's our fault, it is Obama's fault, we deserve to be bombed. Whatever Putin says is now the law. Live with it".

Let's face it, he bent over for Putin. You hero, your God has thrown you and everyone else in the U.S. under the bus so Trump's lord doesn't spill the beans on how he has Trump by the you-know-what and has him on a tether licking his butt.

Whoa. That's pretty primitive, bro.

Yeah, and exactly spot on … bro!

 

[SoCal]

Does your post mean that you do not trust our intelligence gathering people? The work that they do and have done for years to protect us? Does that also mean that you support giving Putin the benefit of the doubt? and if so, for what reason would you want to do that. What can Putin do for US that is worth throwing our professionals under the bus?

A Moscow tower.

It seems that Trump thinks that what's good for him is good for America...

 

[jnug]

Trump yesterday to Hannity:

"You look at Paul Manafort, a nice man" discussing those that have been indicted by Mueller.

A nice man....you have got to be kidding me!

More important than the moral fiber of one Paul Manafort, the Trump Campaign plucked him out of the Ukraine having not been at all involved in American politics for 14 years. Manafort had been carrying water for oligarchs for those 14 years and they made him the campaign manager....BASED ON WHAT? At that point it surely was not for his knowledge of the 2016 American political environment.

 

[Geoist]

I agree they are not our ally and I don't think Trump thinks they are our ally, either.

He does a real good job of faking it.

 

[LowDown]

Wow. Just wow.

There really is nothing more to say to that, except maybe "how is the weather in Moscow this time of year?"

Yeah. Get back to me when Trump sells Russia 20% of our uranium. Or tells them he can be "more flexible" after the election.

With Trump as President, when unofficial Russian forces attacked Kurdish rebels and their American advisors American forces wiped them out. Killed them all, about 500 of them. I don't recall Obama doing anything like that to Russians in Syria. I don't know how delusional you have to be to think that means that Trump is in Putin's pocket.

 

[SoCal]

This thread is so stupid I'm not sure whether to laugh or throw up. So, let's get this straight; Trump is a traitor because of what he said in a news conference. Right, because everyone bent on secret treachery comes out to the press and a worldwide audience to say so. Secondly, did anyone expect Putin to own up to meddling or anything else? I'm sure it was brought up but what is that supposed to solve? We know they tried to meddle and Putin knows we know it. They've been trying to do it since way before Trump showed up. As for Trump's supposed "Pro-Russia" stance, I would note:

1. He implored Germany to buy oil from the US instead of Russia. That would cost Russia billions of dollars and would be a serious blow to their economy while strengthening US-Germany ties.
2. He pulled out of the Iran deal which has caused difficulties for them. Iran is a strong Russian ally. Seems staying in the deal is what someone favoring Russia would do.
3. He signed the sanctions bill on Russia passed by Congress.
4. He expelled over 60 Russian diplomats and closed the Seattle consulate in the wake of the UK poisonings.
5. He sold anti-tank and other weapons to Ukraine over Russian objections.


So, when I see Obama hand puppets like Brennan making idiotic comments about treason, I can only conclude that Putin was indeed correct in knowing how the American left would react to a Trump presidency. Putin is getting what he wants not from Trump but from US liberals who are acting in ways little short of seditious.

Oh, and while we're on Russia, isn't it interesting how the only documented collusion so far was the Hill/DNC paid for Russian dossier on Trump? Let's also remember that Russia obtained a 20% stake in our uranium production capacity while Hill was SOS. Was that being a Putin puppet? Was that treasonous? It was certainly a more substantial gift than anything Trump has done for them. So, the left is showing its hypocrisy as it always does but this time it is amplified by their unreasoning hate for Trump and desire to destroy him without regard to what it does to the country.

You actually believe that it's the left and not the right who's giving Putin what he wants?? Frankly, I'm not sure whether to laugh or throw up either. I've never heard that standing up to an enemy as giving them anything.

Btw, you're been hearing the word 'traitor' this morning not because of what he said in a news conference. It was what he didn't say or demand...

 

[Luckyone]

Whoa. That's pretty primitive, bro.

Yeah, Fight fire with fire.

 

[veritas1]

"No, this isn't treason" Try to tell that to the UCLA alumni when they saw the Dean of the school cheering for USC. Or perhaps a better example is Benedict Arnold which is considered to be the biggest traitor the U.S. has ever had:

Benedict Arnold (January 14, 1741 [O.S. January 3, 1740][1][2] – June 14, 1801) was an American military officer who served as a general during the American Revolutionary War, fighting for the American Continental Army before defecting to the British in 1780. He had George Washington's fullest confidence, and Washington gave him command of the fortifications at West Point, New York. Arnold planned to surrender them to British forces, but the plot was discovered in September 1780 and Arnold fled to the British. His name quickly became a byword in the United States for treason and betrayal because he betrayed his countrymen by leading the British army in battle against the men whom he once commanded.[3]

Yesterday, Trump stated (when next to Putin) that Putin's idea of our intelligence department working with Putin's GRU department in trying to solve the issue about who hacked into our computers was a GREAT idea. Lets surrender all of our intelligence methods and contacts to Putin so he can prevent being discovered the next time that he meddles with our election.

That is being a Patriot? No, that is being a Traitor!

Benedict Arnold? Please. As far as talking about working with the GRU, that is all window dressing as everyone knows it won't happen. I don't think Trump should even consider the idea, even if facetiously. However, charges of treason are hysterical nonsense. Nobody really interested in treason announces it at a press conference. This is silliness.

 

[veritas1]

You actually believe that it's the left and not the right who's giving Putin what he wants?? Frankly, I'm not sure whether to laugh or throw up either. I've never heard that standing up to an enemy as giving them anything.

Btw, you're been hearing the word 'traitor' this morning not because of what he said in a news conference. It was what he didn't say or demand...

You have no idea what Trump said or demanded in private and why would it matter anyway? Do you think that Putin will change his behavior based on some accusations that Trump may make? He won't anymore than he did for Obama. Oh, and as I pointed out, Trump has given Putin a lot less than Obama did. The left is doing exactly what Putin wants, sowing discord and attacking their own country's leadership.

 

[SoCal]

War with Russia would mean many more deaths than you evidently imagine, we are the worlds two largest nuclear powers, is only takes one to foolishly launch a nuke and set the entire world back to the stone age, or worse, with retaliation strikes. There is no place in the US or Russian that would be spared, if not from the direct hit, the fallouts. That kind of war would not be like WWl or WWll. I do not believe in betraying our government or our way of life, have always defended it and always will, but I don't believe in leading with knee-jerk reactions either. Since the beginning of our country there has always been a member of my family serving in every war we have had, right up to my son who survived his tour in the sandbox - so don't try to lay that lack patriotism on me.

Your inference in replacing the avatar speaks a lot to your understanding or lack of, as to your very conservative lean, I always say I am to the right of Rush, but I'm not crazy. Perhaps you have never been directly involved, but war is not something to take a caviler attitude about. Since the beginning of our country, there has always been a member of my family serving in every war we have had, right up to my son who survived his tour in the sandbox - so don't try to lay that lack patriotism on me.

You hit the mail on the head regarding your take on the horror of war with Russia.

The question is how much Trump and his supporters are willing to give up in order to avoid it. How much action of any type would be appropriate?? Let Russia take over Europe? Let them continue to poison their enemies overseas?

While I would say however much it takes, how many would be willing to have our country drop to its knees in order to live a life under a dictatorship? Sometimes stopping an aggressor requires standing up to them, whatever it takes regardless of the consciences. Bargaining from a position of weakness is never helpful.

I would be perfectly willing to give up my life in the defense of our ideals, rights and freedom. I will assume you feel likewise...