Watchmaker Argument - Discussion

[marke]

Anthropology proves humans can be almost as stupid as apes.

 

[marke]

If idiots don't understand truth they have no reservations against telling lies to make themselves look smart.

 

[marke]

Please, list a few "factual" examples.
Top 5 most convincing.
Please.

1. 8,000 feet deep sedimentary rock in the Grand Canyon.
2. Joggins polystrate fossils.
3. The remains of flatten tropical vegetation under 2,000 feet of frozen muck in Alaska.
4. The Berezovka mammoth.
5. The fossil graveyard containing the remains of 200 whales in the mountains of Chile.
6. Out of supposed geologic order fossils in Bone Valley Florida.
7. Fossilized dinosaur tracks 60 miles from the Grand Canyon.

 

[marke]

You're entire argument so far in every post you've made boils down to this:

You need help with your reading comprehension. I have not made that argument at all.

 

[marke]

You find sciencing hard, huh?

Neanderthal genome project - Wikipedia

It does seem as though many people do struggle with reading comprehension. Let's look at what your report states:

An early analysis of the data announced in "the genome of Neanderthals, a human species driven to extinction" "no significant trace of Neanderthal genes in modern humans."

 

[calamity]

It does seem as though many people do struggle with reading comprehension. Let's look at what your report states:

An early analysis of the data announced in "the genome of Neanderthals, a human species driven to extinction" "no significant trace of Neanderthal genes in modern humans."

Try again, Marke.

"The proportion of Neanderthal-inherited genetic material is about 1 to 4 percent [later refined to 1.5 to 2.1 percent] and is found in all non-African populations.

Neanderthal genetics - Wikipedia

The purest Humans, the true Aryans, are Black Africans. Ain't that something? :lol:

 

[Dragonfly]

1. 8,000 feet deep sedimentary rock in the Grand Canyon.
2. Joggins polystrate fossils.
3. The remains of flatten tropical vegetation under 2,000 feet of frozen muck in Alaska.
4. The Berezovka mammoth.
5. The fossil graveyard containing the remains of 200 whales in the mountains of Chile.
6. Out of supposed geologic order fossils in Bone Valley Florida.
7. Fossilized dinosaur tracks 60 miles from the Grand Canyon.

How exactly do those things tie into the "historical Biblical record" ?

Were dinosaurs ever mentioned at all in the bible? Please provide the quote for that.

 

[KevinKohler]

No, logical and reasonable for anyone open to logic and reason.

Conveniant.

 

[marke]

Try again, Marke.

Yes, let's "try again" from the same report:

This finding is disputed because of the paucity of archaeological evidence supporting their statement.

Also: "...the project faced many difficulties, including the contamination of the samples...

Also: "...in 2011 Phylogenetic analysis placed the two in a clade distinct from modern humans, suggesting that their mtDNA types have not contributed to the modern human mtDNA pool."

The purest Humans, the true Aryans, are Black Africans. Ain't that something? :lol:

Let me see if I understand you. Do you believe apes evolved into blacks who evolved into humans? Or are you suggesting that evolution has gone from pure humans, represented by blacks, to degenerate humans represented by whites? Is evolution then going backwards?

 

[ArtemisBarca]

Re: The goal is knowledge

Interesting unscientific theory.



Do tell. I heard that sort of story tale in kindergarten, but that is a story tale, not science. You claim to be able to see the big bang. If so, can you describe how many planets and stars suddenly showed up at one time and where they may have come from? Did you see how they formed? Did you notice how they fell into precise orbits from which they have never significantly deviated from then until now? No, actually nobody has, they just think everything that happened was clear as day to them and no mysteries remain. That is a symptom of blind ignorance. They do not know what they do not know they do not know and they are happy to believe there is nothing they do not know.



Nor is it evidence that time and chance and dumb luck were the ignorant powerless catalysts which sparked the formation of the universe from nothing.

Oh no.. very scientific theory...

It is called “M” theory (for membrane), String theory and there are probably a few more possibilities that are less mainstream.

Can’t claim to understand the math, but it comes out of the math...


See with those theories they take the math of quantum mechanics, which is also the math of electricity which we use every day and have found ways the math works to have a multiverse..




NO ONE HAS PUT FORTH ANY WAY THE MATH WORKS FOR THE CHRISTIAN GOD...... and literally the smartest people in history have tried..


For thousands of years nearly every human on the planet has spent some time trying to prove the existence of their god... all have failed.. even those like Davinci and Newton..


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[ArtemisBarca]

Re: The goal is knowledge

Interesting unscientific theory.



Do tell. I heard that sort of story tale in kindergarten, but that is a story tale, not science. You claim to be able to see the big bang. If so, can you describe how many planets and stars suddenly showed up at one time and where they may have come from? Did you see how they formed? Did you notice how they fell into precise orbits from which they have never significantly deviated from then until now? No, actually nobody has, they just think everything that happened was clear as day to them and no mysteries remain. That is a symptom of blind ignorance. They do not know what they do not know they do not know and they are happy to believe there is nothing they do not know.



Nor is it evidence that time and chance and dumb luck were the ignorant powerless catalysts which sparked the formation of the universe from nothing.

B) ABSOLUTELY?!?!

First There is an “explosion” of just protons and electrons..

In that explosion fusion causes some of the protons and electrons to merger creating hydrogen.. why hydrogen??? Because it is only 1 proton and one electron..


A smigdgen of helium was also formed.. it being 2 protons and electrons..


Then gravity begins dragging the hydrogen into points central points, do to the explosion of hydrogen/helium not being 100% uniform..


Even enough hydrogen gets compressed into a single place. BOOM, you get stars...


Those ginormous proto-stars Float around for millions of years then explode creating the other elements..

The dust from the explosions forms the planets and such...


MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!

We watch the whole thing step by step by looking light years away in space..

No one is guessing..... if you look way away you can watch proto stars become stars and form planets..


There is nothing in the Bible we can seem to verify.




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[ArtemisBarca]

Yes, that is what it looks like, judging from your apparent ignorance of massive amounts of archaeological evidence which supports the historical Biblical record.

I’m the one who agrees with the mainstream opinion...

You are the conspiracy theory guy....


Test that makes it laughable you would site history and science. Lol


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[southwest88]

Excellent advice

No, that would be atheists who think their erroneous assumptions about the universe are scientific facts.

Use yer loaf, mate.

 

[JustHanging]

I’m the one who agrees with the mainstream opinion...

You are the conspiracy theory guy....


Test that makes it laughable you would site history and science. Lol


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Having deep faith in the supernatural requires a certain "flexibility" in one's thinking.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Having deep faith in the supernatural requires a certain "flexibility" in one's thinking.

As does all deep thinking...something that almost zero of the Modern Morons can manage.

 

[JustHanging]

As does all deep thinking...something that almost zero of the Modern Morons can manage.

Maybe you need to get out more?

I would say the current up and coming generation knows more than our generation ever did, and has a clearer picture of the world than we ever did.

Our generation was a prisoner to the prejudices and errors of our parents, and the people we lived with. Just look at how strong the racism still is in the USA. Nowadays kids talk to people from around the world, hear other viewpoints on a daily basis.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Maybe you need to get out more?

I would say the current up and coming generation knows more than our generation ever did, and has a clearer picture of the world than we ever did.

Our generation was a prisoner to the prejudices and errors of our parents, and the people we lived with. Just look at how strong the racism still is in the USA. Nowadays kids talk to people from around the world, hear other viewpoints on a daily basis.

Nope, I try to not go out these days....too many people suck now...it gets to be soul deadening.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

It does seem as though many people do struggle with reading comprehension. Let's look at what your report states:

An early analysis of the data announced in "the genome of Neanderthals, a human species driven to extinction" "no significant trace of Neanderthal genes in modern humans."

No significant doesn't mean 'none'. "It is suggested that 20 percent of Neanderthal DNA survived in modern humans, notably expressed in the skin, hair and diseases of modern people. Modern human genes involved in making keratin—the protein found in skin, hair, and nails—have especially high levels of introgression."

You lose. Again.

 

[ArtemisBarca]

Having deep faith in the supernatural requires a certain "flexibility" in one's thinking.

I personally say “once you start believing in fairytales..”

My bosses is “I don’t believe in no damn grown folks Santa...”




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[ArtemisBarca]

As does all deep thinking...something that almost zero of the Modern Morons can manage.

Then why are the vast majority of scientists atheists/agnostics???

There is no “intellectual “ type field where the religious are not in the minority..



So all the smartest people onto planet disagree with you... really considered laughable amongst most...


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[JustHanging]

Nope, I try to not go out these days....too many people suck now...it gets to be soul deadening.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Maybe you should move to a new neighbourhood? Personally I go and exercise every morning with a group of friends, and as much as I hate exercising, it's a great way to start the day. And if not, give the kids of today a chance, they really are miles ahead of where we were.

 

[JustHanging]

I personally say “once you start believing in fairytales..”

My bosses is “I don’t believe in no damn grown folks Santa...”




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I decided if I'm going to believe in a storybook character, it's going to be Harry Potter. Although the FSM and Santa did make strong cases.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Watchmaker analogy - Wikipedia

Or: Teleological argument - Wikipedia

So let's boil it down to the simplest form for the discussion. At least to start.

The concept is rather clear:



That which is complex, requires a design, which obviously implies something designed it.

A watch doesn't exist without a designer.
Therefore the Universe couldn't exist without a designer.

First question right from the gate, if you presume the concept has merit, that a design implies a designer, why then jump to the conclusion (in the case of the universe/life as we know it) that the designer must be one specific "god"? Or any "god"/"gods" at all?

Does the watchmaker analogy (in terms of God/universe/life) hold water, or fall apart rather quickly?

It makes sense, think of it like this:

• All design implies a designer.
• Great design implies a great designer.
• There is great design in the world (like that of a great machine;
human eye, male/female relation, DNA, etc.).
• Therefore, there must be a great Designer of the world, viz.,God

or how that necessary beings or things HAVE to exist but have to be created at the same time which would require a necessary being

https://www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/2301_handouts/existence_of_god.pdf

Philosophy PROVES God,

 

[calamity]

It makes sense, think of it like this:

• All design implies a designer.
• Great design implies a great designer.
• There is great design in the world (like that of a great machine;
human eye, male/female relation, DNA, etc.).
• Therefore, there must be a great Designer of the world, viz.,God

or how that necessary beings or things HAVE to exist but have to be created at the same time which would require a necessary being

https://www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/2301_handouts/existence_of_god.pdf

Philosophy PROVES God,

Bull****.

Evolution of the eye - Wikipedia

no design...just another result of natural selection.

After figuring out how the eye evolved, maybe you'll be ready to tackle this:
Origin and Evolution of DNA and DNA Replication Machineries - Madame Curie Bioscience Database - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[JustHanging]

It makes sense, think of it like this:

Let's see what you got.

• All design implies a designer.

Premise 1 and you're already trying to smuggle the conclusion into the premise.

There is great design in the world (like that of a great machine;
human eye, male/female relation, DNA, etc.).

An Argument from Ignorance. Specifically you can't understand how the eye evolved, so you say it must have be designed.


I'll leave it at that. Tidy up your argument, get rid of the obvious fallacies, and come back and try again.