Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

[James972]

Jefferson didn't do a whole lot while in office.

actually that was his objective!!! He hated govt!!


)"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."-Thomas Jefferson

 

[James972]

but he didn't do anything while in office to oppose the Federalist agenda..

what would you have suggested?

 

[James972]

Jefferson stated in his first inaugural address, "We are all republicans, we are all federalists." Kind of makes you wonder just what side of the fence he was on.

that was Jefferson being presidential and conciliatory. Like when Obama said there is no white America, there is no black America, there is only the United States of America. Really Jefferson hated federalists an thought they were treasonous

 

[James972]

What the...first of all, the meetings were privately held so they could debate without having every single idea or comment subject to public scrutiny.

cant imagine what wrong with public scrutiny

 

[James972]

These were men of giant intellects and they were debating humanity, law, history, philosophy and hope. To insinuate that this was some kind of secret meeting to create a sinister government is absurd.

why absurd given that that second it was ratified Jefferson and Madison saw the incredible deceit and organized the Republican Party to oppose it although by that time the deceit was locked into the written and ratified Constitution?

 

[James972]

Secondly, the only form of government on the planet at the time was a monarchy. Examples of other forms had to take them back to Rome or Athens. What history books are you using to form your opinions?

Switzerland and England long had democracy. Care to keep trying.

 

[Terryj]

1) I'll bet you $10,000 it was called Republican Party in 18th Century not Democratic party. Bet?
2) parties were 100% opposite( freedom v govt). Jefferson hated Hamilton

James, do a little research on this subject, Thomas Jefferson's party was called the Democrat-Republican party, it was referred to as the "Republican" party. The Republican party wasn't founded until 1854, and like I said before, the first Republican President was Lincoln.

 

[Vadinho]

Switzerland and England long had democracy. Care to keep trying.

England was a democracy in 1790? My lord, I can't fix your problem, only an education will help you.

 

[James972]

James, do a little research on this subject, Thomas Jefferson's party was called the Democrat-Republican party, it was referred to as the "Republican" party. The Republican party wasn't founded until 1854, and like I said before, the first Republican President was Lincoln.

I will pay you $10,000 if Thomas Jefferson’s party was called the Democratic Republican Party in the 18th century. Bet?

 

[James972]

England was probably more of a democracy in the 1790s than America is today.

 

[Moot]

I will pay you $10,000 if Thomas Jefferson’s party was called the Democratic Republican Party in the 18th century. Bet?

Yes, it was called the Republican party in the 18th century but the party only lasted until 1824, when party split into the Jacksonian movement (which became the Democratic Party in 1828) and the short-lived National Republican Party (later succeeded by the Whig Party). There was no Republican party for the next 30 years until the party of Lincoln in 1854.

 

[James972]

Yes, it was called the Republican party in the 18th century

good so you admit you were wrong!! Now you must struggle to understand that our heroic Founding Fathers fought against big govt liberalism just the way heroic modern Republicans do! Makes sense now?

 

[JimHackerMP]

You're incorrect. "Democratic-Republican" is an anachronism of historians, who use it to differentiate it from the later "National Republican" party; and the GOP of Lincoln. Jefferson and his followers never would have used the term Democratic anywhere in the name. That meant "mob rule" and the violence of faction according to people in the 1790s.

The "Democratic" party was essentially the party of Andrew Jackson. It was not even called that until their convention in 1844 which chose the name for their party.

PS, Switzerland has the dubious distinction of finally allowing women's suffrage--in 1973. Today it's quite directly democratic, and has been for a while. But then again, it wasn't always "fair" even if it was democratic, so it depends on how you define democracy.

Back to the Constitutional Convention issue. It was not a coup, perhaps, but a "Thermidorian Reaction" and a necessary one.

James, you're trying to apply modern politics to the tumultuous decade of the 1790s. Doesn't work.

 

[James972]

You're incorrect. "Democratic-Republican" is an anachronism of historians, who use it to differentiate it from the later "National Republican" party; and the GOP of Lincoln. .

wrong of course, in 18th Century Jefferson and Madison formed the "Republican Party" to stand against Federalist big liberal govt. Party was later called Democratic Republican. Historians are very very liberal and so flat out lie so we won't know Republicans founded the country and still fight today under the same name for liberty from big liberal central govt. Now do you understand?

 

[James972]

You're incorrect. Jefferson and his followers never would have used the term Democratic anywhere in the name. That meant "mob rule" and the violence of faction according to people in the 1790s.
.

this is 100% wrong. Jeffersonians formed Democratic societies and Republican societies and Democratic-Republican societies to keep freedom alive at the grass roots level. To the Federalists (like Washington) they represented mob rule or faction or Jacobinism but they were the heart of the burgeoning Republican party that swept the county in the Second American Revolution of 1800. Interestingly, Madison said opposing the democratic societies was the greatest political mistake of Washington's life.

 

[James972]

Back to the Constitutional Convention issue. It was not a coup, perhaps, but a "Thermidorian Reaction" and a necessary one.

.

Thermodorian reaction was to terror. America was doing great under Articles, there was terror and no interest even in amending Articles.
Do you understand now?

 

[James972]

James, you're trying to apply modern politics to the tumultuous decade of the 1790s. Doesn't work.

if so why so afraid to tell us why it doesn't work? What do you learn from your fear?



Here are some Republican quotes from the 1790's to help you understand the basic concept of America:


Thomas Jefferson:
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to grain ground; that the greater the government the stronger the exploiter and the weaker the producer; that , therefore, the hope of liberty depends upon local self-16)governance and the vigilance of the producer class."


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned --this is the sum of good government.

 

[camlok]

if so why so afraid to tell us why it doesn't work? What do you learn from your fear?



Here are some Republican quotes from the 1790's to help you understand the basic concept of America:


Thomas Jefferson:
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to grain ground; that the greater the government the stronger the exploiter and the weaker the producer; that , therefore, the hope of liberty depends upon local self-16)governance and the vigilance of the producer class."


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned --this is the sum of good government.

Thomas the grand American hypocrite Jefferson was fond of pointing out his greed, his hypocrisy, his malevolence.

 

[camlok]

Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

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Yup, just one huge terrorist coup. Taught Americans how to be the world's biggest terrorists ever.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

It mostly was it seems. The Articles had been a huge success at limiting central govt. They contained amendment procedures, to amend the Articles, but every time the liberals tried to use them to expand the power of the central govt they failed. That is when they finally gave up and went outside the ratification process and subversively called their own convention. Who showed up? Liberals who wanted to expand the power of central govt. As soon as the conservatives saw how dangerous the new Constitution was [ Jefferson and Madison, mostly] they formed the Republican Party in 1792 to fight against liberal big govt, and Republicans have been carrying on the battle ever since.

No...it was a restart.

 

[James972]

Thomas the grand American hypocrite Jefferson was fond of pointing out his greed, his hypocrisy, his malevolence.

how could he be malevolent if his idea created American and America then brought freedom, safety, and prosperity to most of the world??

 

[James972]

Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

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Yup, just one huge terrorist coup. Taught Americans how to be the world's biggest terrorists ever.

what is best example of this so called terrorism? Isn't learning fun?

 

[James972]

No...it was a restart.

a coup to restart with a bigger central govt and thus the beginning of our downfall- right?

 

[Tigerace117]

Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

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Yup, just one huge terrorist coup. Taught Americans how to be the world's biggest terrorists ever.

Lol what.

Do you have any evidence for that claim?

 

[Tigerace117]

It mostly was it seems. The Articles had been a huge success at limiting central govt. They contained amendment procedures, to amend the Articles, but every time the liberals tried to use them to expand the power of the central govt they failed. That is when they finally gave up and went outside the ratification process and subversively called their own convention. Who showed up? Liberals who wanted to expand the power of central govt. As soon as the conservatives saw how dangerous the new Constitution was [ Jefferson and Madison, mostly] they formed the Republican Party in 1792 to fight against liberal big govt, and Republicans have been carrying on the battle ever since.

Uh....no. No, it was not a "coup". Claiming something like that is absolutely idiotic; if it was a coup there wouldn't have been any way for "conservatives" to fight back anyway.

The founders realized that the Articles simply didn't work. The country was continually plagued by crisis and the people repeatedly violated treaties the government had signed.