Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

[James972]

senators because of the 17th are turned into free agents for special interest groups who lobby them for their vote by providing financial resources and help with re- election.

if the 17th were repealed, senators again would be representatives of the state legislatures and have to vote on how they are instructed, this would empower the states again, stop federal overreach by reinstalling a check on federal power.

lobbying would cease because it would be difficult to lobby 7000 people over 50 states.

1) I don't see anything wrong with lobbying especially when everyone is free to do it
2) why turn power to states when they are closer to people and thus more abusive to the people?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Walmart for one. They keep prices low by keeping ages low.

I assume that you meant "wages". Low wages being based on what, exactly? They, like many employers, offer wages/benefits required to attract and retain qualified labor. Many smaller employers pay lower wages and benefits than Walmart does yet, since they are not seen as 'evil corporations', they get a pass from folks like you.

 

[Master PO]

1) I don't see anything wrong with lobbying especially when everyone is free to do it
2) why turn power to states when they are closer to people and thus more abusive to the people?

if you believe in the founders constitution then you would not believe in lobbying.

lobbying is in the interest of a few

the founders wanted all laws to be in the interest of the people, the state governments and the union, not a few.

the few are factions and factions make governments unstable

 

[Harshaw]

The current version is the joke known as the Vienna School. Which is actually a fake political science pretending to be economics.

It's economic liberalism.

 

[SmartCat]

you may claim that you don't agree but your handlers are bringing you right along as if on a leash toward communism.

Claiming that I have Communist handlers makes you sound like a crank. I have not known members of the American Communist Party since the 1980's, but I liked them.

 

[SmartCat]

why would they be the same way?? Do you have any idea at all?

No one should attribute eternal truth and absolute truth to a constitution.

 

[SmartCat]

so we have lots of presidents like Trump?? See why we say liberalism is based in ignorance?? What other conclusion is possible?

Inside Higher Ed, April 27, 2016

Americans with college degrees are to the left of the majority of Americans who lack a college degree. And a new study by the Pew Research Center shows that those who have attended graduate school are even farther to the left than those who have only an undergraduate degree.

The relationship between education levels and politics isn’t modest, but it is significant, the study found.

Among those with graduate education of some form, 31 percent hold consistently liberal positions based on an analysis of their opinions about the role and performance of government, social issues, the environment and other topics. Another 23 percent hold mostly liberal positions. Only 10 percent hold consistently conservative positions, and 17 percent hold mostly conservative positions.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...graduate-education-are-far-more-liberal-peers

 

[SmartCat]

so you're anti-semitic and anti christian?? how do the evil Christians think you should live?

For the record, I am an Episcopalian who loves Jews, Judaism, and Israel.

 

[late]

It's economic liberalism.

Get some bad news for ya, this isn't the 1700s.

But you get brownie points for coming up with a new label.

 

[Harshaw]

Get some bad news for ya, this isn't the 1700s.

But you get brownie points for coming up with a new label.

I didn't come up with any label. That's what economic liberalism is.

I'm sorry that you and SmartCat didn't know that. But that's not my fault.

 

[SmartCat]

why do you say that??? Jefferson's Republicans and modern Republicans have identical name and philosophy!! Happy to teach you the basics and hope you are happy to learn?

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" were not used politically until the early nineteenth century. The terms "left" and "right" were first used politically during the French Revolution. Those supporting the monarchy and the aristocracy were on the right. Those supporting the French Revolution were on the left. Jefferson supported the French Revolution until the reign of terror and the rise of Napoleon. Therefore he was on the left politically.

 

[SmartCat]

agree therefore when Smartcat said: "Plutocrats like Trump dominate the United States." he was mistaken but it fits with current treasonous liberal meme that Trump is evil and typical so the whole damn system must be overthrown and made communist!!!

The Cold War ended a long time ago. Worrying about Communism makes you look old.

 

[James972]

I thought the equation "liberalism = socialism = socialism" stopped resonating several decades, It is known as the guilt by association fallacy.

Its always resonated or at least since liberals were spying for Stalin and giving him the bomb while he was killing 60 million or so of his own citizens. Its resonating very loudly now too since liberals are openly admitting to being socialists. Do you understand ? You should embrace your inner socialism. Why hide it when it is now safe to come out of the closet?

 

[James972]

The Cold War ended a long time ago. Worrying about Communism makes you look old.

are you saying we should not worry that Democrats are open socialist/communists when socialism /communism killed 120 million?? Why not worry??

 

[SmartCat]

Economic liberals favor a freer economy.

You mean classical liberals. I use the term "economic liberals" to distinguish between economic liberals and economic conservatives, and also between economic liberals and social liberals. Economic liberals want more restrictions on the economic behavior of employers and rich people. Social liberals want fewer restrictions on behavior pertaining to sexuality. Economic conservatives want fewer restrictions on the behavior of employers and rich people. Social conservatives want to prohibit abortion, gay marriage, pornography, and so on.

 

[SmartCat]

so you want them to pay more in wages, reduce profits, and go bankrupt faster at the hands of Amazon???

Since the Reagan administration profits have soared, wages have not.

 

[SmartCat]

1) I don't see anything wrong with lobbying especially when everyone is free to do it
2) why turn power to states when they are closer to people and thus more abusive to the people?

Your first argument would only have merit if lobbyists were forbidden to give politicians money.

 

[SmartCat]

Its always resonated or at least since liberals were spying for Stalin and giving him the bomb while he was killing 60 million or so of his own citizens. Its resonating very loudly now too since liberals are openly admitting to being socialists. Do you understand ? You should embrace your inner socialism. Why hide it when it is now safe to come out of the closet?

What liberals were spying for Stalin?

You are right that Democrats increasingly support socialism. So do young people, and the population in general.

 

[James972]

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" were not used politically until the early nineteenth century. The terms "left" and "right" were first used politically during the French Revolution. Those supporting the monarchy and the aristocracy were on the right. Those supporting the French Revolution were on the left. Jefferson supported the French Revolution until the reign of terror and the rise of Napoleon. Therefore he was on the left politically.

Using today's definition Jefferson was very very conservative or right-wing politically since he and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1793 to stand for very very limited government. Do you understand? Jefferson and Madison supported the American and French Revolutions because they supported very very limited government!

 

[James972]

What liberals were spying for Stalin?

You are right that Democrats increasingly support socialism. So do young people, and the population in general.

If true Bernie Sanders would be President, not Trump. Why would population support socialism when it has already killed 120 million?

 

[Howard the Duck]

Using today's definition Jefferson was very very conservative or right-wing politically since he and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1793 to stand for very very limited government. Do you understand? Jefferson and Madison supported the American and French Revolutions because they supported very very limited government!

False. The first Republican president was Lincoln. The Republican party was formed in Wisconsin in the 1850s--long after Jefferson and Madison were dead.

You lie a great deal

 

[James972]

Your first argument would only have merit if lobbyists were forbidden to give politicians money.

they are forbidden. Anything else?

 

[James972]

False. The first Republican president was Lincoln. The Republican party was formed in Wisconsin in the 1850s--long after Jefferson and Madison were dead.

You lie a great deal

What Party did Madison and Jefferson form in 1793??

 

[Howard the Duck]

What Party did Madison and Jefferson form in 1793??

They formed the Democratic party, the oldest political party in the world. We celebrate Jefferson Jackson day every year and have for centuries.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

[James972]

What liberals were spying for Stalin?
.

many many books on it. Why not read "Useful Idiots" by Mona Charon for complete list of liberal useful idiots who spied for communists!