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Was Jesus the First Republican?

Marion Morrison said:
Not the way you laid it out, bro.
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What does what Jesus said have to do with "Starting the march towards Jefferson"?

Did Jesus mention Jefferson?

You can't correlate 2 things when they're not related.
 
Nickyjo said:
I come from a labor tradition that said we don’t need welfare in many cases. Just let people organize. But conservatives seem to be against that self-help program as well. ..
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organizing against capitalism is treason not self-help. Do you understand? Do you want owners and consumers to organize against workers?
 
James972 said:
organizing against capitalism is treason not self-help. Do you understand? Do you want owners and consumers to organize against workers?
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Certainly owners have (see right-to-work laws). I investigated one such case of owners' conspiracy back in the day. They settled. And consumer-organized boycotts have affected workers.

But the NLRA of the 1930s should have cleared up your apparent confusion about workers rights in a democracy. Or did I miss the clause in the constitution that outlaws organizing against capitalism? Was pushing for a 40-hour week, or unemployment insurance, or workers comp, or non-discrimination in employment, or an end to sexual harassment treason? Are you ready to dig up FDR and LBJ and hang them, presumably in Ayn Rand's name?
 
Nickyjo said:
Certainly owners have
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issue is not have they but should owners and consumers organize against workers in your ideal screwball economy???
 
Nickyjo said:
Was pushing for a 40-hour week, or unemployment insurance, or workers comp, or non-discrimination in employment, or an end to sexual harassment treason?
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is consumers and owners pushing against the 40 hour week treason in your screwball economy?
 
James972 said:
OMG! limited govt does not mean no govt so when govt does something you cant say thats against the limited govt principle
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Then both sides are both for and against limited government, all dependent on what issue is being discussed. Your entire premise is completely ridiculous and wholly partisan in nature.
 
James972 said:
where to you think the idea of freedom came from???
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From humans who were sick and tired of being told by other humans what to do, especially when those things did not harm others but were simply "outlawed" due to either the greed or personal views of others.
 
Point by point

James972 said:
Jesus created liberty from Roman Gods and emperors; thus began the creation of the Republican Party in 1793 by Jefferson and Madison. It never would have happened without Jesus. Think about it as you see liberals cursing Christianity.
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TMK, Jesus was an observant Jew & called attention to the Jewish god, His Father - I don't recall that He was much interested in the Roman gods (nor any others) nor emperors, even when the latter declared themselves to be gods in their own right.

T. Jefferson was @ best a Deist (I don't know enough about Madison to say one way or the other.) & as others have noted in this thread, the Republican Party is the party of Lincoln; Jefferson's party had a different name. Could Western Civilization have arrived without Jesus? It's a good question - history is much more contingent than we like to think. If Jesus had not existed, someone else would have come along. But whether that person could have filled Jesus' shoes in all particulars is, of course, the question.

Do liberals curse Christianity? Some do, certainly. Does that make their stance the stance of the entire group? I think you've overgeneralized there, & it doesn't work that way in modern politics in any event.
 
Theology, not political science

Originally Posted by Marion Morrison
What does what Jesus said have to do with "Starting the march towards Jefferson"?

James972 said:
where to you think the idea of freedom came from???
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"The Truth shall set you free" is a theological statement, not a political statement. See, for instance, https://www.gotquestions.org/the-truth-will-set-you-free.html - & I think any commentary will come to similar conclusions.

& the topic there is freedom from sin, not freedom from an overweening state. The framework that arguments are stated in is important - it forms & informs the content of the argument itself.
 
The Jews rose anyway, later. & it was a slaughter

James972 said:
Moses was a Jew, Jesus far surpassed Jews in spreading the idea of freedom.
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As far as I can tell, Jesus wasn't interested in political freedom @ all, neither personal freedom nor freedom for the Jews as a whole. That was wise, because if He had declared Himself as the political Messiah that the Jews were apparently waiting/hoping for in Palestine, He would have had to have fled altogether, or been captured & tried for treason to Rome.
 
Re: The Jews rose anyway, later. & it was a slaughter

southwest88 said:
As far as I can tell, Jesus wasn't interested in political freedom @ all, neither personal freedom nor freedom for the Jews as a whole. .
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total misunderstanding of course. Jesus taught that every man was an individual was loved individually by God and would spend eternity in heaven. This freed men from all of their previous concerns including their concerns about being slaves to Rome. Now do you understand?
 
Re: The Jews rose anyway, later. & it was a slaughter

southwest88 said:
That was wise, because if He had declared Himself as the political Messiah
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he did obviously declare himself!! He said give to Caesar and to God equally thus cutting the liberal Roman state in half as prelude to taking over the Roman Empire and Western Civilization on behalf of free conservative Christian men!!
 
James972 said:
issue is not have they but should owners and consumers organize against workers in your ideal screwball economy???
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How you going to stop it other than those actions that fall under anti-Trust legislation? In the case I investigated, grape and tree fruit growers published a newsletter reminding one another what the wages for various jobs on their farms should be, and suggesting they report one another if someone deviated. Became part of a huge lawsuit that was settled. I presume it might have been illegal, but that was never decided. The right to organize for self or group benefit is pretty strong.
 
James972 said:
Moses was a Jew, Jesus far surpassed Jews in spreading the idea of freedom.
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Jesus was a Jew also, and Paul as I understand it was mainly responsible for speading the message to Gentiles, albeit based on some of Jesus's words.
 
Nickyjo said:
Jesus was a Jew also, and Paul as I understand it was mainly responsible for speading the message to Gentiles, albeit based on some of Jesus's words.
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so???
 
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