[W:90]Whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG.Why is it being withheld from Congress?

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

We know the subject is VERY significant, hence the extraordinary efforts by Trump and his bootlickers to bury the report and withhold it from Congress.

And, again, the person we're trusting isn't Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!! Schiff!!

It's the IC IG whom we trust. HE determined the complaint was both urgent and credible. HE determined it was serious enough to go over the DNIs head and report the existence of this complaint to Congress. HE's the one who wrote a letter concluding the lawbreaking and obstruction by the DNI are themselves serious issues. THAT guy was nominated by TRUMP, and confirmed by McConnell's GOP Senate. He also has a long record of prosecuting public corruption. So he's no left wing partisan and he knows what corruption looks like.

Oh darn ... as I've been trying to tell you, if it wasn't for the unfortunate point that the intel whistle blower law is very likely not applicable to a POTUS you might have something.

From the NYT via MSN.com ...

"Mr. Maguire has not disputed the seriousness of the allegation but determined in consultation with the Justice Department that it was outside the scope of the law requiring whistle-blower complaints be forwarded to Congress. Any accusation that triggers the requirement must involve the funding, administration or operations of an intelligence agency.

Administration officials have shared at least some details of the accusations with the White House, to allow officials to weigh whether to assert executive privilege, an official said.

Some current and former officials defended Mr. Maguire’s decision to consult with the Justice Department and the White House. Any question of whether a presidential communication was subject to executive privilege would be a White House decision, and the Justice Department is supposed to offer legal advice."

Whistle-Blower Complaint Sets Off a Battle Involving Trump
​

Why are you focusing on Adam Schiff so much. Have you learned not to trust him or something?

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

The IG would not accept a claim made by a whistleblower that was third party, much less describe it as serious and "urgent". That phrasing by the IG is significant as it is a defined term that trips particular actions by the IG and the DNI which have so far been blocked based on the absurd DOJ argument.

I have not noticed any walking back. All I have noticed is reporting regarding the premise that the whistleblower claim is third party...absurd on its face but reportable by the press.

See #176.

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Oh darn ... as I've been trying to tell you, if it wasn't for the unfortunate point that the intel whistle blower law is very likely not applicable to a POTUS you might have something.

From the NYT via MSN.com ...

"Mr. Maguire has not disputed the seriousness of the allegation but determined in consultation with the Justice Department that it was outside the scope of the law requiring whistle-blower complaints be forwarded to Congress. Any accusation that triggers the requirement must involve the funding, administration or operations of an intelligence agency.

Administration officials have shared at least some details of the accusations with the White House, to allow officials to weigh whether to assert executive privilege, an official said.

Some current and former officials defended Mr. Maguire’s decision to consult with the Justice Department and the White House. Any question of whether a presidential communication was subject to executive privilege would be a White House decision, and the Justice Department is supposed to offer legal advice."

Whistle-Blower Complaint Sets Off a Battle Involving Trump
​

Why are you focusing on Adam Schiff so much. Have you learned not to trust him or something?

None of that even responds to the points I made. Oh well....

Interesting I think that Schiff writes a letter to the DNI demanding the whistleblower complaint and, voila!, the $250 million in military aid in limbo for months suddenly gets released to Ukraine!

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

None of that even responds to the points I made. Oh well....

Interesting I think that Schiff writes a letter to the DNI demanding the whistleblower complaint and, voila!, the $250 million in military aid in limbo for months suddenly gets released to Ukraine!

You keep making the same irrelevant point.
Are you really missing the point time and again? It's been days now. It's like you just won't admit it for some reason.

The point has been, and we've seen it now confirmed by the DOJ (that's what "determined in consultation with the Justice Department" means), that the intel whistleblower law simply does not pierce the powers of the Executive ... your insistence and Adam Schiff's many media appearances notwithstanding.

We're not talking about an intel officer. A POTUS phone conversation is not subject to disclosure because of the whistleblower law.
You were told that days ago.

Here, chew on this ... focus starting at around the 2:00 minute mark.



Still don't understand?

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

You keep making the same irrelevant point.
Are you really missing the point time and again? It's been days now. It's like you just won't admit it for some reason.

The point has been, and we've seen it now confirmed by the DOJ (that's what "determined in consultation with the Justice Department" means), that the intel whistleblower law simply does not pierce the powers of the Executive ... your insistence and Adam Schiff's many media appearances notwithstanding.

I haven't read or listened to ANY of Schiff's media appearances. I'm reading what the IC IG wrote. I'm trusting that TRUMP APPOINTEE. And whether the DoJ has 'confirmed' anything is like the fox confirming that nothing's amiss at the hen house. The working Barr/DOJ theory is anything said or done anywhere in the WH is "privileged" and therefore not disclosable to Congress. Trump could literally shoot someone in the head in his office and Barr would prohibit witnesses to that from testifying to this in Congress based on his theory.

And how do YOU know the issue is a phone call with POTUS? What's been reported is it's not one incident but more than one. For all we know the leaks about it being a routine call with a foreign leader are coming from the WH, and are self serving. And if it is a phone call, and therefore subject to privilege, the way to clear that up is for Trump or the DNI to testify that was the basis for the complaint. I don't care what Trump implies in a Tweet but what someone says under oath. Let the whistleblower testify to that in front of Congress.

We're not talking about an intel officer. A POTUS phone conversation is not subject to disclosure because of the whistleblower law.
You were told that days ago.

Really? So he can break the law and no one is permitted to speak of it? And, again, we don't know what the basis of the complaint is. Let the DNI tell us/Congress this under oath, in open or closed session, I don't care. The IG was prohibited from disclosing ANYTHING about the basis for the complaint in his testimony on Thursday.

Here, chew on this ... focus starting at around the 2:00 minute mark.

Still don't understand?

They got to the meat of it at the end, after the 8 minute mark. The person who determined two things - 1) it qualified as 'urgent' under the statute, and 2) was credible is not Schiff or Democrats or the whistleblower or anyone else other than the INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, SOMEONE APPOINTED BY TRUMP.

Do you think he's a moron and doesn't understand the basics about what is presidential prerogative and what fits into the 'urgent' category? How do you explain that? That is literally part of his job, and it's a core part of his job, distinguishing between legal but possibly stupid, reckless activity versus what meets the statutory requirements. His duties under the statute involve making THAT determination. Mudd acknowledges that point at the very end of that interview. Perhaps you turned it off before then.

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

I haven't read or listened to ANY of Schiff's media appearances. I'm reading what the IC IG wrote. I'm trusting that TRUMP APPOINTEE. And whether the DoJ has 'confirmed' anything is like the fox confirming that nothing's amiss at the hen house. The working Barr/DOJ theory is anything said or done anywhere in the WH is "privileged" and therefore not disclosable to Congress. Trump could literally shoot someone in the head in his office and Barr would prohibit witnesses to that from testifying to this in Congress based on his theory.

And how do YOU know the issue is a phone call with POTUS? What's been reported is it's not one incident but more than one. For all we know the leaks about it being a routine call with a foreign leader are coming from the WH, and are self serving. And if it is a phone call, and therefore subject to privilege, the way to clear that up is for Trump or the DNI to testify that was the basis for the complaint. I don't care what Trump implies in a Tweet but what someone says under oath. Let the whistleblower testify to that in front of Congress.



Really? So he can break the law and no one is permitted to speak of it? And, again, we don't know what the basis of the complaint is. Let the DNI tell us/Congress this under oath, in open or closed session, I don't care. The IG was prohibited from disclosing ANYTHING about the basis for the complaint in his testimony on Thursday.



They got to the meat of it at the end, after the 8 minute mark. The person who determined two things - 1) it qualified as 'urgent' under the statute, and 2) was credible is not Schiff or Democrats or the whistleblower or anyone else other than the INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, SOMEONE APPOINTED BY TRUMP.

Do you think he's a moron and doesn't understand the basics about what is presidential prerogative and what fits into the 'urgent' category? How do you explain that? That is literally part of his job, and it's a core part of his job, distinguishing between legal but possibly stupid, reckless activity versus what meets the statutory requirements. His duties under the statute involve making THAT determination. Mudd acknowledges that point at the very end of that interview. Perhaps you turned it off before then.

The point is that, according to the DOJ, the DNI didn't have to comply.
And, according to the video, an intel employee had no business trying to bypass executive privilege. However urgent anyone considered what was said.
What happened after the 8 minute mark further destroyed your point about there being a violation of the whistleblower law. I'm surprised you risked calling attention to it.

Why do you think no one has disclosed what was said? On what basis? Why do you think the DOJ would not want to create a precedent out of this?

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

The point is that, according to the DOJ, the DNI didn't have to comply.
And, according to the video, an intel employee had no business trying to bypass executive privilege. However urgent anyone considered what was said.

Unless the President or someone else broke a law. Remember what an "urgent matter" is, right?

"A serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of the law or Executive order..."

What happened after the 8 minute mark further destroyed your point about there being a violation of the whistleblower law. I'm surprised you risked calling attention to it.

It's because I understood the point, and you didn't or you're misstating it dishonestly. The IC isn't entitled to listen in on calls and report stuff to Congress that Trump did that the person found troubling/stupid/reckless. What they ARE supposed to do is report "urgent matters" as defined above, including violations of the law. The person reporting the problem knows this, the IC IG knows this. They are not morons like Trump lemmings. They are professionals, who understand statutes and the difference between presidential prerogatives however stupid or ill advised VERSUS someone breaking the law.

Why do you think no one has disclosed what was said? On what basis? Why do you think the DOJ would not want to create a precedent out of this?

Someone has disclosed it, first to the IC IG, using the procedure the law REQUIRES him or her to report an "urgent matter." The matter should be in Congress' hands and it's not.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Shields and Brooks discuss the whistleblower. Video in link.

Syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week’s political news, including reports of a whistleblower complaint that might involve President Trump, the debate about whether a sitting president can commit a crime and the U.S. response to attacks on Saudi oil facilities.

Shields and Brooks on the whistleblower complaint, Saudi oil attack | PBS NewsHour

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Unless the President or someone else broke a law. Remember what an "urgent matter" is, right?

"A serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of the law or Executive order..."



It's because I understood the point, and you didn't or you're misstating it dishonestly. The IC isn't entitled to listen in on calls and report stuff to Congress that Trump did that the person found troubling/stupid/reckless. What they ARE supposed to do is report "urgent matters" as defined above, including violations of the law. The person reporting the problem knows this, the IC IG knows this. They are not morons like Trump lemmings. They are professionals, who understand statutes and the difference between presidential prerogatives however stupid or ill advised VERSUS someone breaking the law.



Someone has disclosed it, first to the IC IG, using the procedure the law REQUIRES him or her to report an "urgent matter." The matter should be in Congress' hands and it's not.

Yeah. You misunderstood what Mudd said.
He said the whisleblower law was not the proper vehicle for intel.
He said the proper vehicle would have been to quit and report what he considered improper.
THEN at the end he reiterated that.

As for understanding statutes and presidential prerogatives I'll go with the DOJ (and common sense reading of the law) rather than an IG's "preliminary review" of something he was given (do we know what yet?)
by a so-called whistleblower whose motives are suspect.

There are also those who are continually suckered like this by unscrupulous partisans.
To them (you?) I noted on another thread ...

Wonderful. But, as the DOJ read it, this particular whistleblower law was being misapplied. IOW ... not the proper channel and the conditions weren't met.

Here's the thing ... if you haven't noticed already, the argument has begun shifting from the whistleblower law to "Oh, yeah, well it was still a corrupt phone call(s)".
So shift gears, my friend. Don't be left behind.
But be prepared in the end for this one to fail too.
They all have.

 

[justabubba]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Yeah. You misunderstood what Mudd said.
He said the whisleblower law was not the proper vehicle for intel.
He said the proper vehicle would have been to quit and report what he considered improper.
THEN at the end he reiterated that.

As for understanding statutes and presidential prerogatives I'll go with the DOJ (and common sense reading of the law) rather than an IG's "preliminary review" of something he was given (do we know what yet?)
by a so-called whistleblower whose motives are suspect.

There are also those who are continually suckered like this by unscrupulous partisans.
To them (you?) I noted on another thread ...

"unscrupulous partisans"
to me, those are unpatriotic citizens who support and defend a president who would trade national treasure for foreign assistance in his election

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

"unscrupulous partisans"
to me, those are unpatriotic citizens who support and defend a president who would trade national treasure for foreign assistance in his election

Like Schiff. Has he ever been proven right?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Just maybe its because every accusation is found to be yet another fake news, fake claim by the left. Here's a question for ya. What could you (or anyone else) possibly know that 50 FBI forensic agents with an unlimited budget couldn't find?

When you are caught crying wolf over and over and over, how do you expect anyone to believe anything you might claim in the future. It's time to get over it.

A ridiculous and flat out wrong assertion.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

A 'tyrant' huh? You honestly believe that? Well then good thing the 2nd Amendment has protected your rights to forcibly reject tyranny.

Get to ****ing stepping, son.

tyrant noun
ty·​rant | \ ˈtī-rənt \
Definition of tyrant
1a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution
b : a usurper of sovereignty
2a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally
b : one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power
You need to “get to ****ing stepping, son”.

 

[justabubba]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Like Schiff. Has he ever been proven right?

why is the white house hiding documents, such as the basis for the whistleblower's report ... and refusing to allow testimony to be presented to the congress

schiff is not the problem

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Like Schiff. Has he ever been proven right?

why is the white house hiding documents, such as the basis for the whistleblower's report ... and refusing to allow testimony to be presented to the congress

schiff is not the problem

So you can't think of anything either.

If you were President, would you waive Executive Privilege every time you get accused of something by your political enemies?

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Yeah. You misunderstood what Mudd said.
He said the whisleblower law was not the proper vehicle for intel.
He said the proper vehicle would have been to quit and report what he considered improper.
THEN at the end he reiterated that.

At the end Mudd, paraphrased, said "the question was whether [the WB] heard [Trump we assume] say something he was so offended by that he needed to report, OR, whether [the WB] heard [Trump say] something that meets the threshold of illegal."

This wasn't hard to understand so I assume the feigned ignorance is deliberate.

As for understanding statutes and presidential prerogatives I'll go with the DOJ (and common sense reading of the law) rather than an IG's "preliminary review" of something he was given (do we know what yet?)
by a so-called whistleblower whose motives are suspect.

Right, Trump cannot be wrong, he can only be wronged by partisan Deep Staters. That appears to be your position here. Everyone is a partisan with suspect motives, including the guy he appointed to the IC IG post, and someone in intelligence working closely enough to top on a daily basis he has access to this information as part of his job. And the remedy for this is not to just.....release the complaint so we can all see what prompted this, but to throw everyone under the bus as dishonest, except for Dear Leader, and to crap on the letter and intent of the whistleblower law!

MAGA!!!!

There are also those who are continually suckered like this by unscrupulous partisans.
To them (you?) I noted on another thread ...

Your comment is BS no matter how many threads you post it to. First of all, we don't know it's a phone call, or what the subject was, because the WH is burying it. And who is shifting from the whistleblower law to it was a corrupt phone call? They're the same thing. If it's an urgent matter, it's required to be transmitted to Congress. If it's as benign as Trump says, no harm done to anyone, except the IG and WB and perhaps Schiff and the Democrats for making a nothing whistleblower complaint and the the IG and Schiff for, what, demanding that the DNI FOLLOW THE LAW?

Whatever. Bottom line is Trump tells the cult to jump and they dutifully ask how high would he like them to jump.

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

At the end Mudd, paraphrased, said "the question was whether [the WB] heard [Trump we assume] say something he was so offended by that he needed to report, OR, whether [the WB] heard [Trump say] something that meets the threshold of illegal."

This wasn't hard to understand so I assume the feigned ignorance is deliberate.

Yet you didn't. He was reiterating what he said earlier ... that if whoever was so offended or thought it was illegal the solution was to quit and file a report. The Intel whistleblower law didn't apply for the reasons you were told many times.

Right, Trump cannot be wrong, he can only be wronged by partisan Deep Staters. That appears to be your position here. Everyone is a partisan with suspect motives, including the guy he appointed to the IC IG post, and someone in intelligence working closely enough to top on a daily basis he has access to this information as part of his job. And the remedy for this is not to just.....release the complaint so we can all see what prompted this, but to throw everyone under the bus as dishonest, except for Dear Leader, and to crap on the letter and intent of the whistleblower law!

Don't forget the IG said he made a "preliminary review". Does that sound like an exhaustive investigation? Was he shown the transcript? The whole thing? Any of it?
The DOJ, DNI, and I can see you refuse to understand the law itself.
I'd like to see what was in the complaint and compare it to the transcripts.
I'm thinking if/when that happens you will pack up and completely move on from the whistleblower law to the fallback position.

Your comment is BS no matter how many threads you post it to. First of all, we don't know it's a phone call, or what the subject was, because the WH is burying it. And who is shifting from the whistleblower law to it was a corrupt phone call? They're the same thing. If it's an urgent matter, it's required to be transmitted to Congress. If it's as benign as Trump says, no harm done to anyone, except the IG and WB and perhaps Schiff and the Democrats for making a nothing whistleblower complaint and the the IG and Schiff for, what, demanding that the DNI FOLLOW THE LAW?

Whatever. Bottom line is Trump tells the cult to jump and they dutifully ask how high would he like them to jump.

I'm not in any Trump cult. That should be obvious because I saw what the law was and, if you bothered to check, made comments to you about it long before today. Those comments have since been borne out.
But ... are you in the Schiff cult? You have been parroting him very closely.

 

[NWRatCon]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

I believe that the whistleblower complaint is enough to bring down the President. Moreover, I think Trump believes it is, which explains this behavior. The IC IG is in a different position than the acting DNI. He's been confirmed by the Senate.

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Yet you didn't. He was reiterating what he said earlier ... that if whoever was so offended or thought it was illegal the solution was to quit and file a report. The Intel whistleblower law didn't apply for the reasons you were told many times.

You're lying or being intentionally ignorant. There's no point engaging with that. Seriously, it was your link and if you can't understand simple spoken words, or pretend to misunderstand them, nothing you can say is worth engaging.

Here's the video. Everyone else can listen in starting around 7:55 and see for themselves that you're being dishonest.

 

[snakestretcher]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Reading the citation I dunno either, but I have a feeling that it's yet another anonymous source the leftist TDS media is spinning.

Kinda like the New York Slimes and the latest installation of "The Kavanaugh Character Assassination".

What would Mark Felt have had to say, I wonder? Whatever happened at the sharp end of that anonymous source? Nixon got reamed, that's what. So, yes, by all means write-off anonymous sources, but remember your history.

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

You're lying or being intentionally ignorant. There's no point engaging with that. Seriously, it was your link and if you can't understand simple spoken words, or pretend to misunderstand them, nothing you can say is worth engaging.

Here's the video. Everyone else can listen in starting around 7:55 and see for themselves that you're being dishonest.

Yup.
Exactly what I said.
He was distinguishing between the whistle blower law and some corrupt activity that could possibly be explored by an intel agency.
The only reason I can think of that you still won't see it is your own tendency to blindly believe the spin or schemes the worst partisans conjure up.
You should know better after almost 3 years of failed attempts.

 

[JasperL]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Yup.
Exactly what I said.
He was distinguishing between the whistle blower law and some corrupt activity that could possibly be explored by an intel agency.
The only reason I can think of that you still won't see it is your own tendency to blindly believe the spin or schemes the worst partisans conjure up.
You should know better after almost 3 years of failed attempts.

Ok, so pretending to be ignorant it is. eace

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Ok, so pretending to be ignorant it is. eace

"The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act of 1998,[1] amending the Central Intelligence Agency Act of 1949 and the Inspector General Act of 1978, sets forth a procedure for employees and contractors of specified federal intelligence agencies to report complaints or information to Congress about serious problems involving intelligence activities."
Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act - Wikipedia

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

What would Mark Felt have had to say, I wonder? Whatever happened at the sharp end of that anonymous source? Nixon got reamed, that's what. So, yes, by all means write-off anonymous sources, but remember your history.

Think back over these last few years which anonymous sourced media report wasn't completely blown apart, debunked, and disproved within 24 to 72 hours? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

The media's constant spinning (to their preferred political narrative) in these last years has left me with great distrust of the media as well as their anonymous sources.

 

[Acadia]

Re: A whistleblower filed a complaint to the intelligence IG. Why is it being withheld from Congress

Think back over these last few years which anonymous sourced media report wasn't completely blown apart, debunked, and disproved within 24 to 72 hours? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

The media's constant spinning (to their preferred political narrative) in these last years has left me with great distrust of the media as well as their anonymous sources.

Yet every single time, the MSM and Democrats treat the half-truths, partial stories and speculation as fact, and start banging the impeachment drum.