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[W:69] 900 Roma Forced to Move After Village Brawl in Russia

PeteEU said:
LOL there is a problem in Northern and eastern Europe. One of the biggest problem families in my aunts area is a Romani family..The difference is the amount of Romani in various countries.
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i wrote Northern eastern Europe, Poland, Belarus, Baltics.
 
PeteEU said:
You mean those places that the Nazies exterminated the Romani people from?
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well i am not an expert on this subject, are you? i know Germans wanted to exterminate all Ashkenazi Jews, about Gypsies not sure. there are too many different groups of Gypsies .

ps do you think WW2 experiences are relevant here ?
 
PoS said:
Youre on his side too since you always mention him. Are you in love?
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Making folks aware is not equivalent to your apologia.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Sad but true, gypsy values are indeed parasitic values, because living as a parasite is at the core of those values.
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Echo's of 1939. Some things never change it seems.

For todays's Fascists here in the US, it's Muslims and brown people.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Echo's of 1939. Some things never change it seems.

For todays's Fascists here in the US, it's Muslims and brown people.
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I wish you wouldn't equate what I said with some hat tip to 1939.
My issue is, what does one do with stateless people who are insisting upon BEING stateless?
What does France do with several thousand people who have no intention of even trying to become legal residents?
I mean, if gypsies all become legal residents or citizens, then they are just gypsies in a cultural sense, but it appears that many gypsy groups (Roma) have no state whatsoever. They aren't legal residents or citizens and they sequester themselves from society.

If they do have legal status, then they can be regarded as being analogous to say perhaps, our own Amish, I suppose.
The Amish are born here as US citizens. They maintain a separate existence but they are citizens nonetheless.

From what I hear, gypsies are travellers who migrate back and forth and never put down roots. Am I wrong about this? I could be totally wrong and if so, I will admit it.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
~ From what I hear, gypsies are ~
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"Gypsy" covers a wide variety of nomadic people.
"Roma" that I have met in Eastern Europe are very dark and very reminiscent of people from the South Asian (Indian) continent and they have always been nomads - the reason for their ending up in Europe. "Travellers" can and often do live a nomadic life but if you put a naked "Traveller" baby next to a resident caucasian European baby you'd be very hard pressed to tell the difference; not so with a Roma baby and a caucasian baby.

You say "insist on being stateless" but these are people who have generally lived a way of life that has outlasted many states so it seems harsh to ask them to abide by cultural and societal values that they might consider new and alien to them.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No. Stereotypes often have a grain of truth, which is what makes them stereotypes to begin with.
Every kid in the Remington Ranch neighborhood and beyond knew to stay away from Flying L Lane for a reason.
Every adult in the neighborhood and every Mansfield cop knew that that area was the first place to look if your tools got stolen from your work truck.

When an elementary school finally was built down the street, the owners of the Texan RV Ranch were given an ultimatum to either close down entirely or get the travellers out of there and they chose the second option.
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kind of like red-lining neighborhoods so that the minorities did not buy there; that kind of stereotyping?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
~............................From what I hear, gypsies are travellers who migrate back and forth and never put down roots. Am I wrong about this? I could be totally wrong and if so, I will admit it.
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In the sense of the generalization used, yes.

Here in Europe (the continent with the greatest population of Sinti and Roma) most of them are of legal status, i.e. hold nationality/citizenship of whatever state. Just as an example, the Nazis couldn't otherwise have deprived them of German citizenship, so as "to deal with them" more easily.

As such those that Sarkozy, the toxic dwarf of France, deported some years ago were Romanian and Romania was where he sent them back to. Incidentally in contravention of EU law, which allows free movement within the EU to any EU citizen.

Overall, their statelessness of the past was less down to their refusal to integrate into the countries in which they finally dwelled, but more on account of countries refusing them citizenship.

What still makes for migration over here, albeit legal migration within the EU, is that in South-Eastern European states the Sinti and Roma are still traditionally treated as sub-human. Persecuted by exclusion from ANY social services, schools, medical aid etc.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You say "insist on being stateless" but these are people who have generally lived a way of life that has outlasted many states so it seems harsh to ask them to abide by cultural and societal values that they might consider new and alien to them.
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That might be so but it doesn't change the fact that in order to function in a society, you might want to try being in that society. And in this day and age, staying separate might impart the impression that there is something members of society should be cautious about when dealing with you and yours.
That's just natural instinct.

Even the Amish apparently have documented issues of violence and corruption and they are generally regarded by most Americans as benign. Outliers are outliers, so I don't know how we can address society dealing with outliers except to regard them as outliers. Some might be benevolent but who can tell?
 
justabubba said:
kind of like red-lining neighborhoods so that the minorities did not buy there; that kind of stereotyping?
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Heh heh heh, uuuhhhhhh yeahNO...these people were not "according to Hoyle" Roma Gypsies, they just lived like gypsies.
Some of them even referred to themselves as "travellers".
Most of them were not minorities for the simple reason that even in this day and age, the Dallas area STILL follows an unwritten set of rules about where minorities live, and Mansfield's early history makes LOTS of minorities very uncomfortable.

No, most of the ne'er do wells at Texan RV were as white as white can "git" when yer gittin.
The sex offender maps back in 2006-2010 had a large concentration of pins right in that RV park and the surrounding trailer home community next to it.

Now it seems there are none. But many of the same people just relocated to Cleburne, Venus, Waco and Fort Worth it seems...or just another part of Mansfield.
 
Litwin said:
well i am not an expert on this subject, are you? i know Germans wanted to exterminate all Ashkenazi Jews, about Gypsies not sure. there are too many different groups of Gypsies .

ps do you think WW2 experiences are relevant here ?
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Here's someone who is an expert, Ian Hancock:

One of Hancock's best-known publications is The Pariah Syndrome, published in Czech translation as Země utrpění (Signeta 2001), which reviews the position of Romani people after the Second World War. He is known for having introduced the term "porrajmos" as a Romanes-language term for the genocide committed by the Nazis against the Roma. Ian Hancock, Romani linguist at the University of Texas, has been awarded an OBE - Romea.cz

Dr. Hancock established the Romani Archives and Documentation Center, which is globally the most comprehensive collection of Romani documents.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
That might be so but it doesn't change the fact that in order to function in a society, you might want to try being in that society. And in this day and age, staying separate might impart the impression that there is something members of society should be cautious about when dealing with you and yours.
That's just natural instinct.

Even the Amish apparently have documented issues of violence and corruption and they are generally regarded by most Americans as benign. Outliers are outliers, so I don't know how we can address society dealing with outliers except to regard them as outliers. Some might be benevolent but who can tell?
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CBS:

Why the need to be predictive and proactive? If one or more Roma commit a crime and their guilt can be proved in a court of law, then punish them in accordance with the law. Eventually really bad communities will shrink as more of their members are jailed or held until fines are paid. The jailing will select for better behaviour in the future and the fines will force the Roma community to self-police itself or lose even more members and moveables to confinement or escrow pending fine payment. Seizing moveable property as assurance of fine payment might be used too. The important thing is to deal with the criminals themselves but to avoid further marginalising these nomadic communities by collective punishment.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
CBS:

Why the need to be predictive and proactive? If one or more Roma commit a crime and their guilt can be proved in a court of law, then punish them in accordance with the law. Eventually really bad communities will shrink as their more of their members are jailed or held until fines are paid. The jailing will select for better behaviour in the future and the fines will force the Roma community to self-police itself or lose even more members to confinement pending fine payment. Seizing moveable property as assurance of fine payment might be used too. The important thing is to deal with the criminals themselves but to avoid further marginalising these nomadic communities by collective punishment.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Sounds okay to me :)

I am of the suspicion that Mansfield PD cleared out the Texan RV using nuisance ordinances and current sex offender statutes. The moment the last brick was laid on that elementary school, 60 percent of the residents of that place were potentially in violation.

From what I can remember, they weren't kidnapping infants, they were diddling little teenybopper chickies. That's still a sex offense but clearly their culture tells them it's okay.
 
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Rogue Valley said:
Your allegiance to Putin has never been doubted by many here.
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LOL neither has your allegiance to Poroshenko and the rest of the Ukraine mafia been doubted, comrade.

Captain Adverse said:
I've interacted with Roma who came from Russia, Romania, and other parts of Europe...and also some Cossacks (which are NOT "Romani," but Turkic if I recall correctly, btw). We can play this game all day long.

My original point stands. :coffeepap:
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He's apparently an expert in the region because he lived in Ukraine for a few years LOL.
 
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PoS said:
LOL neither has your allegiance to Poroshenko and the rest of the Ukraine mafia been doubted, comrade.
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You had many opportunities to demonstrate that moscal pos, you never did. You simply ran away as usual.
 
Rogue Valley said:
You had many opportunities to demonstrate that moscal pos, you never did. You simply ran away as usual.
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Ran away? Im right here, comrade. This is just another of your bigoted threads against Russia, but as usual, its not turning out the way you expected it to be.
 
PoS said:
Ran away? Im right here, comrade. This is just another of your bigoted threads against Russia, but as usual, its not turning out the way you expected it to be.
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Ukraine has another president (not that you would know) and I still advocate for Ukraine.

Shoots your stupid "Poroshenko narrative" all to Hell.

But then again, you never did have anything except "Quit picking on my beloved Kremlin."
 
Rogue Valley said:
Ukraine has another president (not that you would know) and I still advocate for Ukraine.

Shoots your stupid "Poroshenko narrative" all to Hell.

But then again, you never did have anything except "Quit picking on my beloved Kremlin."
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Of course you keep at it, you probably have posters of Putin all over your house since you post nothing but bigotry all day here. Your obsession with him is laughable. :lol:
 
Litwin said:
well i am not an expert on this subject, are you? i know Germans wanted to exterminate all Ashkenazi Jews, about Gypsies not sure. there are too many different groups of Gypsies .

ps do you think WW2 experiences are relevant here ?
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You should look up who were among the first in the concentration camps before they became extermination camps..
 
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