[W:57: 1585]Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

[SanderO]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Well, right off the bat here, you’ve failed miserably.

Cuz the NIST report doesn’t say that. It says that a large portion of the structure, over several floors , failed. Including the core columns.

And again, this bothers me to no end when an otherwise seemingly intelligent guy displays such utter ignorance of a report that he says he disagrees with and actually goes to the trouble of thinking about alternative scenarios.

Ok, so I’m not an active debunker, although I used to to some degree. So, I’ve actually read the NIST report and did my best to understand what it says about these internal, and not observable movements. And I can say with 100% certainty that while I too am not a structural engineer and some of that was beyond my understanding, I understand enough of it to know that you are utterly wrong on so many counts to know that you’ve absolutely wasted years of your life trying to find answers.

The sad thing is, you could straighten yourself out with just a little bit of effort.

But it’s pretty apparent that you never will cuz you just aren’t curious enough to truly dig for answers.

Pretty sad ....

Don't be sad...

You're probably wrong and I don't care. Any collapse scenario would have to involve failures over multiple floors regardless of what drove or describes those *unseen* failures.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

So...what you're saying us, our government wasn't capable of pulling off a simple drug smuggling operation...which dudes in Columbia with the equivalence of a 3rd grade education have been managing for decades...


But are completely capable of orchestrating the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center, without anyone knowing, without anyone getting credible, substantial evidence, and no whistle blowing or leaks.


Your logic is faulty, I'm afraid.

No, I'm saying elements of the government, probably consisting of rogue agents within, are very capable of pulling off drug smuggling schemes, and they've been doing it with impunity since the Agency was created in about 1947. Alfred McCoy has been writing about it for decades. Journalists besides Gary Webb have been writing about it for decades. Movies like Air America have been made about it.

Point being, just because a person pretends the Agency does engage in such behavior DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't.

So too, that a given individual is ignorant of many facts regarding the events of 911 DOES NOT MEAN that those facts don't exist. It means only that he is ignorant of them. Yes, ignorance can very much be blissful, but it is still ignorance. There ARE humans who are comfortably numb to reality. This concept of Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia is quite valid. IMO it's related to Cognitive Dissonance, but I digress.

If you can appreciate the idea of rogue agents within government being able to achieve things under cover of government, then you are beginning to understand what really happened on 911.

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

No, I'm saying elements of the government, probably consisting of rogue agents within, are very capable of pulling off drug smuggling schemes, and they've been doing it with impunity since the Agency was created in about 1947. Alfred McCoy has been writing about it for decades. Journalists besides Gary Webb have been writing about it for decades. Movies like Air America have been made about it.

Point being, just because a person pretends the Agency does engage in such behavior DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't.

So too, that a given individual is ignorant of many facts regarding the events of 911 DOES NOT MEAN that those facts don't exist. It means only that he is ignorant of them. Yes, ignorance can very much be blissful, but it is still ignorance. There ARE humans who are comfortably numb to reality. This concept of Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia is quite valid. IMO it's related to Cognitive Dissonance, but I digress.

If you can appreciate the idea of rogue agents within government being able to achieve things under cover of government, then you are beginning to understand what really happened on 911.

Pathetic strawman. No one claimed the Govt doesn't do bad things.
You failed utterly to even discuss the need for thousands of people to be involved and keep it secret or the fact that the ones that were caught all involved relatively small numbers of people or that the govt has proven itself to be rather inept at these things

Now do you have any actual evidence or just your fear and hatred of th ebil US govt?

 

[SanderO]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

No, I'm saying elements of the government, probably consisting of rogue agents within, are very capable of pulling off drug smuggling schemes, and they've been doing it with impunity since the Agency was created in about 1947. Alfred McCoy has been writing about it for decades. Journalists besides Gary Webb have been writing about it for decades. Movies like Air America have been made about it.

Point being, just because a person pretends the Agency does engage in such behavior DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't.

So too, that a given individual is ignorant of many facts regarding the events of 911 DOES NOT MEAN that those facts don't exist. It means only that he is ignorant of them. Yes, ignorance can very much be blissful, but it is still ignorance. There ARE humans who are comfortably numb to reality. This concept of Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia is quite valid. IMO it's related to Cognitive Dissonance, but I digress.

If you can appreciate the idea of rogue agents within government being able to achieve things under cover of government, then you are beginning to understand what really happened on 911.

rogue elements... when and if they exist are operating on behalf of the USG. Because of their jobs they may have access to information other people don't have... and a skill set that a bus driver does not have.

A rogue element as you call them are simply non state actors who act with their own (political) agenda. One doesn't need to abandon one's politics when working for the USG but they are expected to act ethically, without bias and not serving their or some other political interest.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

No, I'm saying elements of the government, probably consisting of rogue agents within, are very capable of pulling off drug smuggling schemes, and they've been doing it with impunity since the Agency was created in about 1947. Alfred McCoy has been writing about it for decades. Journalists besides Gary Webb have been writing about it for decades. Movies like Air America have been made about it.

Point being, just because a person pretends the Agency does engage in such behavior DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't.

So too, that a given individual is ignorant of many facts regarding the events of 911 DOES NOT MEAN that those facts don't exist. It means only that he is ignorant of them. Yes, ignorance can very much be blissful, but it is still ignorance. There ARE humans who are comfortably numb to reality. This concept of Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia is quite valid. IMO it's related to Cognitive Dissonance, but I digress.

If you can appreciate the idea of rogue agents within government being able to achieve things under cover of government, then you are beginning to understand what really happened on 911.

So...a couple dudes went rogue...some of them had terrorist contacts in the middle east, some had, like, super deep pockets, another had an entire wet squad of demolitions experts, all very tight lipped. Managed to procure all of those supplies without tipping any other agency off (FBI gets involved if you buy fertilizer with no corosponding farm, lol) etc.


Again, I find your logic to be stretched awfully thin. Don't you think?

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

So...a couple dudes went rogue...some of them had terrorist contacts in the middle east, some had, like, super deep pockets, another had an entire wet squad of demolitions experts, all very tight lipped. Managed to procure all of those supplies without tipping any other agency off (FBI gets involved if you buy fertilizer with no corosponding farm, lol) etc.


Again, I find your logic to be stretched awfully thin. Don't you think?

there is no logic or evidence behind his posts on fear and hatred of the ebil US govt.

 

[hado117]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

No, I'm saying elements of the government, probably consisting of rogue agents within, are very capable of pulling off drug smuggling schemes, and they've been doing it with impunity since the Agency was created in about 1947. Alfred McCoy has been writing about it for decades. Journalists besides Gary Webb have been writing about it for decades. Movies like Air America have been made about it.

Point being, just because a person pretends the Agency does engage in such behavior DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't.

So too, that a given individual is ignorant of many facts regarding the events of 911 DOES NOT MEAN that those facts don't exist. It means only that he is ignorant of them. Yes, ignorance can very much be blissful, but it is still ignorance. There ARE humans who are comfortably numb to reality. This concept of Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia is quite valid. IMO it's related to Cognitive Dissonance, but I digress.

If you can appreciate the idea of rogue agents within government being able to achieve things under cover of government, then you are beginning to understand what really happened on 911.

an fbi agent ****ed a muslim woman right in her asshole

 

[SanderO]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Truther conspiracy nuts present nothing worth the time in *debunking*... They present no credible explanation of how the collapses occurred other than the nebulous claim *CD*. Sometimes they invoke magic nano thermite... no sketch details are provided.

There main beliefs are driven by ignorance and incredulity that a building could collapse. And yet demand a proof or what amounts to a second by second description of what was happening to all the frame on every floor.

There are no truthers that can be taken seriously. All sizzle and no steak.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Truther conspiracy nuts present nothing worth the time in *debunking*... They present no credible explanation of how the collapses occurred other than the nebulous claim *CD*. Sometimes they invoke magic nano thermite... no sketch details are provided.

There main beliefs are driven by ignorance and incredulity that a building could collapse. And yet demand a proof or what amounts to a second by second description of what was happening to all the frame on every floor.

There are no truthers that can be taken seriously. All sizzle and no steak.

The truther movement is dead and buried.

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

The truther movement is dead and buried.

Dead maybe but there are still a few zombies walking around

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Dead maybe but there are still a few zombies walking around

Risible zombies of no danger to anyone.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

So...a couple dudes went rogue...some of them had terrorist contacts in the middle east, some had, like, super deep pockets, another had an entire wet squad of demolitions experts, all very tight lipped. Managed to procure all of those supplies without tipping any other agency off (FBI gets involved if you buy fertilizer with no corosponding farm, lol) etc.


Again, I find your logic to be stretched awfully thin. Don't you think?

It is more than your conditioned mind can accommodate. Not to worry sir, life goes on. When everything the American people believe is false, we have arrived.

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

It is more than your conditioned mind can accommodate. Not to worry sir, life goes on. When everything the American people believe is false, we have arrived.

what planet have you arrived on?

 

[MrBig2430]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Don't be sad...

You're probably wrong and I don't care. Any collapse scenario would have to involve failures over multiple floors regardless of what drove or describes those *unseen* failures.

Yeah, but if you had any intellectual curiosity and actually read the NIST report, instead of being so lazy about it, you’d know what you’re arguing against and wouldn’t have wasted years coming up with your alternative explanation of how the core floor beams likely pushed the columns out of alignment.

You’d actually find out that they theorize that the core columns failed not by being pushed out of alignment, but by shortening due to high temp and load. And also how this transferred load to otherwise intact columns and how THEY failed. Etc.

Does this mean that their explanation is likely 100% correct? Who knows. But at least it’s systematic and cohesive.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

It is more than your conditioned mind can accommodate. Not to worry sir, life goes on. When everything the American people believe is false, we have arrived.

Are you kidding me? I've seen enemy of the state, conspiracy theory, white house down, Olympus has fallen, air force one...and X-Files.

All Hollywood blockbusters about the very thing you just suggested. If anything, I'm conditioned to believe your theory.

Open your mind, and re-examine your logic. Deny cognitive dissonance. I, nor anyone else, will judge you for changing your mind...only you will.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Yeah, but if you had any intellectual curiosity and actually read the NIST report, instead of being so lazy about it, you’d know what you’re arguing against and wouldn’t have wasted years coming up with your alternative explanation of how the core floor beams likely pushed the columns out of alignment.

You’d actually find out that they theorize that the core columns failed not by being pushed out of alignment, but by shortening due to high temp and load. And also how this transferred load to otherwise intact columns and how THEY failed. Etc.

Does this mean that their explanation is likely 100% correct? Who knows. But at least it’s systematic and cohesive.

Loads did not change aside from some interior core loads... not much there BTW.

Load transferred is through lateral beams / bracing and to some extent through the slabs supported by beams... but slabs are carried by beams and beam loads are then carried by columns.

Shortening would not lead to the failure we saw in my humble opinion.

I did read through much of the NIST report and addenda... didn't seem to make sense to me...

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Are you kidding me? I've seen enemy of the state, conspiracy theory, white house down, Olympus has fallen, air force one...and X-Files.

All Hollywood blockbusters about the very thing you just suggested. If anything, I'm conditioned to believe your theory.

Open your mind, and re-examine your logic. Deny cognitive dissonance. I, nor anyone else, will judge you for changing your mind...only you will.

I did change my mind Kevin, in about 2005.

Just as I took Jussie Smollett's word for it to start with, I also took the word of the MSM and Bush & Co to start with.

I learned at a young age to be able to change my mind when appropriate, and admit I was wrong in the initial analysis. That has served me well. It turns out, of course, that Jussie had staged an event, and that rogue elements within the government had staged a series of events.

It took me several years to understand I had been deceived, and that was the result of study and research.

How about you? Some say it is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is some truth to that statement.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

I did change my mind Kevin, in about 2005.

Just as I took Jussie Smollett's word for it to start with, I also took the word of the MSM and Bush & Co to start with.

I learned at a young age to be able to change my mind when appropriate, and admit I was wrong in the initial analysis. That has served me well. It turns out, of course, that Jussie had staged an event, and that rogue elements within the government had staged a series of events.

It took me several years to understand I had been deceived, and that was the result of study and research.

How about you? Some say it is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is some truth to that statement.

It is easier to fool someone, than it is to explain how they were fooled. Its why con artists have been around and successful for...well, forever, really.

But who is fooling you, vs who is fooling me?

Again, to accept that rogue elements within our government accomplished what is espoused in this and other threads, means that I must ignore mountains of prior evidence that flat out states that our government, by design, simply isn't capable of this level of proficiency.

How about this...you tell me what happened. Which rogue elements? From which branches? How many people were directly and indirectly involved? Who knew/knows about it? Did an entire bomb squad suffer tragic lethal accidents right after?

Sorry, but I simply don't buy it. You are missing the human element in all of this.

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

It is easier to fool someone, than it is to explain how they were fooled. Its why con artists have been around and successful for...well, forever, really.

But who is fooling you, vs who is fooling me?

Again, to accept that rogue elements within our government accomplished what is espoused in this and other threads, means that I must ignore mountains of prior evidence that flat out states that our government, by design, simply isn't capable of this level of proficiency.

How about this...you tell me what happened. Which rogue elements? From which branches? How many people were directly and indirectly involved? Who knew/knows about it? Did an entire bomb squad suffer tragic lethal accidents right after?

Sorry, but I simply don't buy it. You are missing the human element in all of this.

Why dont you also ask him how a nuclear bomb that didn't explode or emit any radiation, exploded emitting radiation (yes he has made those contradictory claims) in the basement caused buildings to collapse starting at the points of impact of the planes?

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

It is easier to fool someone, than it is to explain how they were fooled. Its why con artists have been around and successful for...well, forever, really.

But who is fooling you, vs who is fooling me?

Again, to accept that rogue elements within our government accomplished what is espoused in this and other threads, means that I must ignore mountains of prior evidence that flat out states that our government, by design, simply isn't capable of this level of proficiency.

How about this...you tell me what happened. Which rogue elements? From which branches? How many people were directly and indirectly involved? Who knew/knows about it? Did an entire bomb squad suffer tragic lethal accidents right after?

Sorry, but I simply don't buy it. You are missing the human element in all of this.

Yes, I know you don't buy it.

As to all your questions, I don't know the answers. I was not in on the planning or execution of the operation, so I cannot know the answers.

However, what I do know is that all the facts and evidence available contradict the official story. I do know that we were all fooled, you and I both, and exactly who did the fooling really doesn't matter.

As Kean and Hamilton stated in public, the commission was set up to fail. It doesn't really matter who did the fooling, what matters is that SOMEBODY pulled off the deception, and the mainstream media has been complicit in the deception. Some of us are astute enough to understand that, some of us will never admit it to themselves, much less the world. Life goes on.

Another philosopher, I think Kierkegaard, noted that there are 2 ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't so, and the other is to REFUSE to believe what is so. Those who still buy into the official tale are guilty on both counts.

 

[noonereal]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

132 pages of garbage.

God Bless.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Yes, I know you don't buy it.

However, what I do know is that all the facts and evidence available contradict the official story. I do know that we were all fooled, you and I both, and exactly who did the fooling really doesn't matter.

As Kean and Hamilton stated in public, the commission was set up to fail. .

For sure not everything that is the so called *official narrative* is false. It may have some mistakes... it make have omissions. I doubt that there were deliverate fabricated lies to conceal some inconvenient truth

The 911 commission's mandate was to investigate the facts. What are the facts? What facts did they not investigate? The commission did not have the technical expertise to do forensic engineering on the collapses of the buildings. They reported on observations and who appeared to be the likely culprits.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

For sure not everything that is the so called *official narrative* is false. It may have some mistakes... it make have omissions. I doubt that there were deliverate fabricated lies to conceal some inconvenient truth

The 911 commission's mandate was to investigate the facts. What are the facts? What facts did they not investigate? The commission did not have the technical expertise to do forensic engineering on the collapses of the buildings. They reported on observations and who appeared to be the likely culprits.

Would you be interested in specifying what part of the story is true in your opinion?

 

[Quag]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

Yes, I know you don't buy it.

As to all your questions, I don't know the answers. I was not in on the planning or execution of the operation, so I cannot know the answers.

However, what I do know is that all the facts and evidence available contradict the official story. I do know that we were all fooled, you and I both, and exactly who did the fooling really doesn't matter.

As Kean and Hamilton stated in public, the commission was set up to fail. It doesn't really matter who did the fooling, what matters is that SOMEBODY pulled off the deception, and the mainstream media has been complicit in the deception. Some of us are astute enough to understand that, some of us will never admit it to themselves, much less the world. Life goes on.

Another philosopher, I think Kierkegaard, noted that there are 2 ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't so, and the other is to REFUSE to believe what is so. Those who still buy into the official tale are guilty on both counts.

We know your "facts" contradict each other

 

[mike2810]

Re: Evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[W:57]

We know your "facts" contradict each other

I have asked T72 to explain how Gage can be correct and so can Prager. They have different explanations. Gage believe nanothermite, conventional explosives were used to bring the towers down. No nukes involved. Jeff Prager believe no nanothermite, but mini neutron bombs were used. His past explanation was some convoluted cop out. In the end it is well known Gage and Prager had a parting of ways in AE911T.


T72 can have his rouge element within the government conducted 9/11. The only problem he has no evidence to back it up. It is a what if game. His narrative that the rest of us have been brainwashed to believe what the government says is just sad.