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[W:549] Nfl 2018

The Giants are not a lot different than this years Broncos. Their problems begin and end on their O-line. Eli is still a passable QB...when he has a supportive running game and decent time to pass. The same can be said for Keenum. I dont think either of those two (and many other QBs in the league) will make up for week line play.

There was a time when the O-line was the key to great offenses. That was the way it was with the Giants in their heyday. Thats the way it was with Elways Broncos. Thats the way it was with Montanas 49ers.
 
VanceMack said:
The Giants are not a lot different than this years Broncos. Their problems begin and end on their O-line. Eli is still a passable QB...when he has a supportive running game and decent time to pass. The same can be said for Keenum. I dont think either of those two (and many other QBs in the league) will make up for week line play.

There was a time when the O-line was the key to great offenses. That was the way it was with the Giants in their heyday. Thats the way it was with Elways Broncos. Thats the way it was with Montanas 49ers.
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But didnt the giants sign nate solder? The highest paid o linemen in the nfl?
 
VanceMack said:
The Giants are not a lot different than this years Broncos. Their problems begin and end on their O-line. Eli is still a passable QB...when he has a supportive running game and decent time to pass. The same can be said for Keenum. I dont think either of those two (and many other QBs in the league) will make up for week line play.

There was a time when the O-line was the key to great offenses. That was the way it was with the Giants in their heyday. Thats the way it was with Elways Broncos. Thats the way it was with Montanas 49ers.
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You are correct the Giants O-Line isn't good. BUT Eli does nothing to help them, or himself out. He's a stationary target, the defensive linemen know where's he's going to be on every pass play. Last nights game was a perfect example of contrasts because the Philly O-Line wasn't great either. But when pressured Wentz moved, he rolled out. Eli doesn't do that anymore. He's a drop back passer who is ALWAYS 5-7 steps STRAIGHT behind the center, he's always in the same spot.

The Giants need to move on from Eli. They should have done it last year, but McAdoo completely screwed it up. Replacing Eli with Smith? That's about as dumb a move as he could do.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
You are correct the Giants O-Line isn't good. BUT Eli does nothing to help them, or himself out. He's a stationary target, the defensive linemen know where's he's going to be on every pass play. Last nights game was a perfect example of contrasts because the Philly O-Line wasn't great either. But when pressured Wentz moved, he rolled out. Eli doesn't do that anymore. He's a drop back passer who is ALWAYS 5-7 steps STRAIGHT behind the center, he's always in the same spot.

The Giants need to move on from Eli. They should have done it last year, but McAdoo completely screwed it up. Replacing Eli with Smith? That's about as dumb a move as he could do.
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I suspect Eli was kept on as a scapegoat and sacrificial lamb. At the end of the day...do you bring in a current roster backup that is not really any better, or do you let Eli take the beating until they can get a standout starter. And in order to have a standout starter, you need a better o-line.
 
VanceMack said:
I suspect Eli was kept on as a scapegoat and sacrificial lamb. At the end of the day...do you bring in a current roster backup that is not really any better, or do you let Eli take the beating until they can get a standout starter. And in order to have a standout starter, you need a better o-line.
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They tried to improve the O-Line. They spent a ton to keep Beckham. And they drafted Barkley to improve their running game. They were trying to win now, and they thought Eli was the best option for that.

I think they were wrong, they should let Beckham walk, and drafted 1 of the 4 top QB's in the draft, and went with that younger QB this year. It wouldn't have been pretty, because as you pointed out their O-Line is bad. BUT at least with a younger QB they could have opened up their play book. With Eli back there there are no roll outs, no option plays, no reads, etc. All it is is him dropping back throwing 5-7 yard passes or screens.. They are very, very limited with Eli as their QB.

It's a QB league. No team can win with a stationary QB who accuracy is poor and can't throw downfield. And that's what Eli is now.

They are stuck with Eli this year, you are right about that. I'm saying they screwed up last year and during the off-season.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
They tried to improve the O-Line. They spent a ton to keep Beckham. And they drafted Barkley to improve their running game. They were trying to win now, and they thought Eli was the best option for that.

I think they were wrong, they should let Beckham walk, and drafted 1 of the 4 top QB's in the draft, and went with that younger QB this year. It wouldn't have been pretty, because as you pointed out their O-Line is bad. BUT at least with a younger QB they could have opened up their play book. With Eli back there there are no roll outs, no option plays, no reads, etc. All it is is him dropping back throwing 5-7 yard passes or screens.. They are very, very limited with Eli as their QB.

It's a QB league. No team can win with a stationary QB who accuracy is poor and can't throw downfield. And that's what Eli is now.

They are stuck with Eli this year, you are right about that. I'm saying they screwed up last year and during the off-season.
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I would worry about young QBs going the way of Ryan Leaf and Johnny Manziel. QBs need a few years of mentorship at the pro level or they become mediocre QBs...and there are a TON of mediocre QBs.
 
VanceMack said:
I would worry about young QBs going the way of Ryan Leaf and Johnny Manziel. QBs need a few years of mentorship at the pro level or they become mediocre QBs...and there are a TON of mediocre QBs.
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Manziel never had the talent to be an NFL QB. Add on to that he was more worried about partying than playing. And Leaf was a headcase. Neither was ever going to be a good or elite QB in the NFL. Especially Manziel.

But with this years draft there were 4 QB's that all have a chance of being good QB's. IDK if the 4 QB's of the draft will all be good, or all flops. Young QB's are like young pitchers, they are a crap shoot. But I do know Eli's time is over. IMO taking a shot at a young QB makes more sense than staying with an old, immobile QB who's time is over. At least with a young 'mobile' gun you got a chance.. You can open up the play book, take chances. With Eli the Giants are severely limited.

In this pass happy, score crazy NFL it's not an accident the Giants went 2+ years without scoring 30 points.
 
VanceMack said:
I would worry about young QBs going the way of Ryan Leaf and Johnny Manziel. QBs need a few years of mentorship at the pro level or they become mediocre QBs...and there are a TON of mediocre QBs.
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lol...the NFL didn't ruin Ryan Leaf, Johnny Football or any of the other privileged spoiled brats who bombed on the big-boy stage. Although, some could argue that concussions had already begun taking their toll on some, like gambling man, Art Schlichter, who in his late 50's supposedly suffers from dementia much like the similarly-aged Jim McMahon.
 
calamity said:
lol...the NFL didn't ruin Ryan Leaf, Johnny Football or any of the other privileged spoiled brats who bombed on the big-boy stage. Although, some could argue that concussions had already begun taking their toll on some, like gambling man, Art Schlichter, who in his late 50's supposedly suffers from dementia much like the similarly-aged Jim McMahon.
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If you go back and look at ALL the best QBs in the league in the modern era, they all had mentors. They all rode the clipboard for a few years. This isnt about what happened to them after they left the game. Its about rookie QBs not having a chance to develop. Montana didnt start til his 3rd year. Brady played a year behind Bledsoe. Rodgers had 3 years behind Favre. Brees had a full year backing up Fouts. There arent that many players that are drafted and can step up in their rookie year and lead their teams successfully. Id rather see a talented QB develop as a player and become a franchise player than see them in and out in a year...and there are a LOT of those types.
 
I thought this was interesting. Mahomes is doing great...no doubt...but then someone had to go and point this out...

44043502_2309113445825768_2644835243059576832_n.webp
 
VanceMack said:
I thought this was interesting. Mahomes is doing great...no doubt...but then someone had to go and point this out...

View attachment 67242104
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The big difference, IMO, is that the stats for the guy on the left show us his ceiling. Whereas, the stats on the right show us potential.
 
calamity said:
The big difference, IMO, is that the stats for the guy on the left show us his ceiling. Whereas, the stats on the right show us potential.
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The thing they have in COMMON is Andy Reid and the KC offense. Fast starts...weak finishes. I am curios to see if they can take it all this year. I think right now they have to be the favorite.
 
Mahomes is good right now but thats because the defenses dont have a lot of tape of him so far. Once they got enough footage and analyze what he does and make their adjustments, then we'll know just how elite he is.
 
VanceMack said:
The thing they have in COMMON is Andy Reid and the KC offense. Fast starts...weak finishes. I am curios to see if they can take it all this year. I think right now they have to be the favorite.
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Tomorrow's game in NE will be very telling. A loss tomorrow could lead to a series of them thereafter. See Miami.
 
Way too early Super Bowl prediction:

New England 35, LA Rams 21

I feel like Brady is really going to let loose now like the season with Moss. I feel like the Rams will be too inexperienced to keep up.
 
JC Callender said:
Way too early Super Bowl prediction:

New England 35, LA Rams 21

I feel like Brady is really going to let loose now like the season with Moss. I feel like the Rams will be too inexperienced to keep up.
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This would not surprise me. But, yes--way to early.

A 41-year old QB playing all 16 games would be amazing. So, I certainly would not count on that happening. And, once Brady goes down, NE is toast.
 
VanceMack said:
If you go back and look at ALL the best QBs in the league in the modern era, they all had mentors. They all rode the clipboard for a few years. This isnt about what happened to them after they left the game. Its about rookie QBs not having a chance to develop. Montana didnt start til his 3rd year. Brady played a year behind Bledsoe. Rodgers had 3 years behind Favre. Brees had a full year backing up Fouts. There arent that many players that are drafted and can step up in their rookie year and lead their teams successfully. Id rather see a talented QB develop as a player and become a franchise player than see them in and out in a year...and there are a LOT of those types.
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cam says you are quite wrong
 
justabubba said:
cam says you are quite wrong
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"There arent that many players........."

So Cam would probably be smart enough to realize I didnt say there were NO players capable...just not many.
 
The Man said:
2nd year
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My mistake.. But he did start his 1st year in the NFL and won the Offensive Rookie MVP of that year.

I kind of agree with Vance, I too think QB's would be better off sitting and watching for a year or 2. But not in every case. Like now with the Giants. I see no advantage having a young QB sit there and watch a very limited QB like Eli. The Giants probably had to throw out 1/2 their play book this year because of Eli, so I see no way a young QB would learn anything from Eli this year.
 
VanceMack said:
The Giants are not a lot different than this years Broncos. Their problems begin and end on their O-line. Eli is still a passable QB...when he has a supportive running game and decent time to pass. The same can be said for Keenum. I dont think either of those two (and many other QBs in the league) will make up for week line play.

There was a time when the O-line was the key to great offenses. That was the way it was with the Giants in their heyday. Thats the way it was with Elways Broncos. Thats the way it was with Montanas 49ers.
Click to expand...

LOL. I think you are way off.

Eli Manning is a bottom tier QB. I would cringe to even think about how bad Eli would look without Odell Beckham or Barkley.

Eli was done in 2016.

The Giants front office/ownership were gutless when essentially they chose to accommodate the needs of Eli Manning instead of the needs of the NY Gian football team. They caved in fear of idiot Giants fans.

The only hope for the Giants is to sign Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick is: a. better than Eli Manning b. Puts less pressure on Beckham and the rest of the team. More people would be talking about the politics of the situation instead of how bad the Giants are.

It may sound crazy but Kaepernick would be a great fit on the Giants and the city of New York.
 
Bucky said:
LOL. I think you are way off.

Eli Manning is a bottom tier QB. I would cringe to even think about how bad Eli would look without Odell Beckham or Barkley.

Eli was done in 2016.

The Giants front office/ownership were gutless when essentially they chose to accommodate the needs of Eli Manning instead of the needs of the NY Gian football team. They caved in fear of idiot Giants fans.

The only hope for the Giants is to sign Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick is: a. better than Eli Manning b. Puts less pressure on Beckham and the rest of the team. More people would be talking about the politics of the situation instead of how bad the Giants are.

It may sound crazy but Kaepernick would be a great fit on the Giants and the city of New York.
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It pretty funny that you make this ridiculous definitive declaration about Kaepernick...even though he lost his starting job the last time he played and he hasnt been on turf in 2 years.

The simple fact is you dont know what the **** the Giants management was thinking regarding Manning. And like it or not...right now...he MAY be the best option, all things considered. It doesnt make sense to put a rookie behind a questionable line, just to watch him get his ass kicked and maybe permanently injured.
 
VanceMack said:
The simple fact is you dont know what the **** the Giants management was thinking regarding Manning. And like it or not...right now...he MAY be the best option, all things considered. It doesnt make sense to put a rookie behind a questionable line, just to watch him get his ass kicked and maybe permanently injured.
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How do you know? Tony Romo was an undrafted free agent. Is it impossible for a late-round draft pick to succeed?

Ereck Flowers was a top ten pick for the Giants in 2015. Not only did he lose his starting job, but the Giants also cut him because of his lack of performance.

Why does it make sense to cut Flowers who sucked, but continue to start Eli Manning, who doesn't deserve to play based on performance.

Eli Manning needs to update his resume. He continues to milk off his two super bowl rings.
 
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