[W:532]Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

[Vern]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

For what it's worth and SIAP, Graham agreeing Russia hacked the DNC emails is not Graham agreeing that only Russia interfered in the 2016 election as your OP postulates after Graham's quote.

the point you seem to be missing is that trump and republicans were pushing the narrative that Ukraine hacked the DNC. That's why Graham is specifically referencing emails. And like most conservatives you are trying to equate whatever you imagine Ukraine did (they did nothing but you imagine they did something) with Russian hacking the DNC, using troll farms speading false information and attacking state's election infrastructure . Here's the senate report concerning that last point

Russian government-affiliated cyber actors conducted an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure in the run-up to the 2016 U.S. elections.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

So please clearly state what you think Ukraine did (we'll worry about you backing it up later) and compare it to what Russia actually did. I'm looking for you to justify your "both sides" argument. And saying Russia "interfered" is a misnomer. Russia attacked our democracy.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

the point you seem to be missing is that trump and republicans were pushing the narrative that Ukraine hacked the DNC. That's why Graham is specifically referencing emails. And like most conservatives you are trying to equate whatever you imagine Ukraine did (they did nothing but you imagine they did something) with Russian hacking the DNC, using troll farms speading false information and attacking state's election infrastructure . Here's the senate report concerning that last point

Russian government-affiliated cyber actors conducted an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure in the run-up to the 2016 U.S. elections.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

So please clearly state what you think Ukraine did (we'll worry about you backing it up later) and compare it to what Russia actually did. I'm looking for you to justify your "both sides" argument. And saying Russia "interfered" is a misnomer. Russia attacked our democracy.

Since the Ukraine hasn't meddled to the degree of Russia in the 2016 election, we can't count the Ukraine in the meddling of the 2016? Is that your point? Don't you wish to wait until all the investigations into Ukrainian interference into the 2016 election have been completed?

BTW, why is it your desire to label Russia as the one bad country in all this? BTW, the only people who've been saying the Ukraine is the only country that meddled in the 2016 election are straw man arguments of what GOPs think.
Give me proof some are saying the Ukraine is the only foreign who meddled it the 2016.

 

[Vern]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Since the Ukraine hasn't meddled to the degree of Russia in the 2016 election, we can't count the Ukraine in the meddling of the 2016? Is that your point? Don't you wish to wait until all the investigations into Ukrainian interference into the 2016 election have been completed?

Oh look, not only did you not tell us what you think Ukraine did, you asked a bunch of questions. I asked you what you think Ukraine did to justify your "both sides" narrative. You didn't even have to back them up. You simply needed to state what you think Ukraine did. And please tell us about these Ukraine investigations that you are aware of.

And of course you didn't address the fact that Graham is specifically attacking the lying Russian narrative of "nyet, Ukraine hack emails, not us" that trump and republicans are happily spewing, ie doing Putin's bidding. Again, Graham specifically stating that there is no evidence Ukraine hacked the emails and that Russia did. Again, that is in response to trump and republicans were pushing the lying narrative put out by russia. Try to be clear and straightforward like my posts.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Oh look, not only did you not tell us what you think Ukraine did, you asked a bunch of questions. I asked you what you think Ukraine did to justify your "both sides" narrative. You didn't even have to back them up. You simply needed to state what you think Ukraine did. And please tell us about these Ukraine investigations that you are aware of.

And of course you didn't address the fact that Graham is specifically attacking the lying Russian narrative of "nyet, Ukraine hack emails, not us" that trump and republicans are happily spewing, ie doing Putin's bidding. Again, Graham specifically stating that there is no evidence Ukraine hacked the emails and that Russia did. Again, that is in response to trump and republicans were pushing the lying narrative put out by russia. Try to be clear and straightforward like my posts.

Give an example and cite it where Trump and/or GOPs are saying the Ukraine meddled in the 2016 but not Russia.

 

[Vern]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Give an example and cite it where Trump and/or GOPs are saying the Ukraine meddled in the 2016 but not Russia.

Oh look, you continue to not respond in an honest straightforward manner. I asked you to state what you think Ukraine did but you replied with questions. You even asked a question that had already been answered. You asked "Since the Ukraine hasn't meddled to the degree of Russia in the 2016 election, we can't count the Ukraine in the meddling of the 2016?" after I've stated that Ukraine did nothing. Now are you simply looking for an excuse to not post in an honest and straightforward fashion.

Now another thing you're doing (who knows if it is on purpose) is you are posting about "meddling" after I've specifically stated Graham was attacking the lying Russian narrative that 'Ukraine hacked the emails not Russia". I realize its hard to keep straight all the lying narratives spewed by the right but that's the nature of lying narratives. They have to evolve quickly whenever they are proven false.

Lets focus on the one where Russia is trying to claim Ukraine is framing Russia for hacking the DNC. Russia hacking the DNC is just documented fact. Anytime someone mentions Ukraine in relation to the DNC hack they are either lying or flamingly incompetent. Again, that is the lying narrative Graham addresses in the OP. here's trump referencing that Russian created lie. Now in case you missed it, Russia hacking the DNC is documented fact.

Trump still thinks his own intelligence agencies are wrong about who hacked the DNC — and he wanted Ukraine’s help to prove it.
Trump’s reference to “CrowdStrike” during the Ukraine call, explained - Vox

In case you don't realize it, that addresses your deflecting post. Now please state what you think Ukraine did.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Oh look, you continue to not respond in an honest straightforward manner. I asked you to state what you think Ukraine did but you replied with questions. You even asked a question that had already been answered. You asked "Since the Ukraine hasn't meddled to the degree of Russia in the 2016 election, we can't count the Ukraine in the meddling of the 2016?" after I've stated that Ukraine did nothing. Now are you simply looking for an excuse to not post in an honest and straightforward fashion.

Now another thing you're doing (who knows if it is on purpose) is you are posting about "meddling" after I've specifically stated Graham was attacking the lying Russian narrative that 'Ukraine hacked the emails not Russia". I realize its hard to keep straight all the lying narratives spewed by the right but that's the nature of lying narratives. They have to evolve quickly whenever they are proven false.

Lets focus on the one where Russia is trying to claim Ukraine is framing Russia for hacking the DNC. Russia hacking the DNC is just documented fact. Anytime someone mentions Ukraine in relation to the DNC hack they are either lying or flamingly incompetent. Again, that is the lying narrative Graham addresses in the OP. here's trump referencing that Russian created lie. Now in case you missed it, Russia hacking the DNC is documented fact.

Trump still thinks his own intelligence agencies are wrong about who hacked the DNC — and he wanted Ukraine’s help to prove it.
Trump’s reference to “CrowdStrike” during the Ukraine call, explained - Vox

In case you don't realize it, that addresses your deflecting post. Now please state what you think Ukraine did.

And why does Trump believe Ukraine did the hacking? Because Putin told him so. My god republicans, wake the Fu** up. This whole thread is useless. This matter was put to bed last year.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

You agree with me that the warrant has to carried out fully and logically to garner arrests but a warrant that isn't carried out fully and logically won't garner any arrests.

Do you know what a process crime is? Those are the crimes of which Trump campaign workers and hangers-on were convicted and jailed.

Yes im aware of what process crimes are. What i am not aware of is the specifics of the warrants and the cases your challenging. I dont know if they were lawful or not. Im not defending how the prosecuters attempted to use those crimes as leverage to build a bigger case. Its a common tactic that i desest in principle.
However, with all that being said, if the crimes they were accused of were discovered while they were following a normal course of investigating something else and these things were uncoverd, that would be legal. If thats how it occurred.
The problem i have with the Mueller investigation is that he was not given any crime to investigate. He had added the charge of conspiracy because even he admits that collusion isnt a crime. On that basis it makes the entire investigation illegal and anything they found should of been dismissed as fruit from the poisionous tree. Nobody charged should of plead out. Imo they had poor legal representation. Thats a different issue than what you two were arguing about.
The point i was making specific to what you 2 were debating seemed to be you saying that you csn only be charged with things the warrant authorized and he was saying that you can be charged for anything they uncover. Neither are correct. It depends on the nature of the warrant. Thats why i said you cant charge simeone for something they find in a drawer if the warrsnt states they are there to search for something that cant possibly fit in a drawer, like a car.
I would think the same principle applies to paperwork. They cant look at tax records if they are looking for something unrelated to taxes.

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[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Your both part wrong and part right.
If the police come to your house with a warrant to look for a stollen car and they find a bag of drugs in your dresser drawer, you cant be charged for that because the cop had no reasonable cause to look for a car in your dresser draw.
However if the police are there looking for drugs snd find a stollen car in your garage, you can be charged for that even though thats not what the warrant was for.
The circumstances of how the evidence was found determines if its prosecutable or not.

Thank you for agreeing with me that [the circumstance] "of how the evidence was discovered if it is prosecutable or not."

The term "process crime" is meaningless.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

the point you seem to be missing is that trump and republicans were pushing the narrative that Ukraine hacked the DNC. That's why Graham is specifically referencing emails. And like most conservatives you are trying to equate whatever you imagine Ukraine did (they did nothing but you imagine they did something) with Russian hacking the DNC, using troll farms speading false information and attacking state's election infrastructure . Here's the senate report concerning that last point

Russian government-affiliated cyber actors conducted an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure in the run-up to the 2016 U.S. elections.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

So please clearly state what you think Ukraine did (we'll worry about you backing it up later) and compare it to what Russia actually did. I'm looking for you to justify your "both sides" argument. And saying Russia "interfered" is a misnomer. Russia attacked our democracy.

Nothing in what Graham saying gives any credence to bad behavior by Ukraine in 2016.

It was all Russian and all Trump campaign badness.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Give an example and cite it where Trump and/or GOPs are saying the Ukraine meddled in the 2016 but not Russia.

No, buddy, you made silly allegations with no support. No one has to answer anything of you until you fulfill the duty of support. Cough it up, or get out. If you don't, then you are trolling,

 

[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Objection! Assumes a fact not in evidence....

Logic fallacy by NWRatCon. I wrote that if a crime is detected during an investigation is a crime fair and square.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Thank you for agreeing with me that [the circumstance] "of how the evidence was discovered if it is prosecutable or not."

The term "process crime" is meaningless.

Yes circumstances matter. That does not mean the term process crimes are meaningless. Manafort was convicted for some obscure law that nobody is ever prosecuted for and Flynn was prosecuted because of an inconsistency in his statements. Neither of those things were a big deal but they were prosecuted as if they were. It exposes a prosecutor predjuidice that nobody should be excusing.

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[NWRatCon]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Logic fallacy by NWRatCon. I wrote that if a crime is detected during an investigation is a crime fair and square.

You misapprehended my comment, my friend. Your question was, "Cabse5, where did you go to school?" to which I responded.... Objection! Assumes a fact not in evidence. Humor. It's not everyone's forte.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Yes circumstances matter. That does not mean the term process crimes are meaningless. Manafort was convicted for some obscure law that nobody is ever prosecuted for and Flynn was prosecuted because of an inconsistency in his statements. Neither of those things were a big deal but they were prosecuted as if they were. It exposes a prosecutor predjuidice that nobody should be excusing.

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Yes, the term "process crime" is meaningless in terms of attacking the validity of a crime found during a legal investigation.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

You misapprehended my comment, my friend. Your question was, "Cabse5, where did you go to school?" to which I responded.... Objection! Assumes a fact not in evidence. Humor. It's not everyone's forte.

Fallacy fallacy.

 

[Vern]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Nothing in what Graham saying gives any credence to bad behavior by Ukraine in 2016.

It was all Russian and all Trump campaign badness.

We are in agreement on that matter. Graham, one of trump's biggest stooges and definitely the biggest in the senate, shredded trump's obedient Russian narrative about Ukraine hacking the DNC.

 

[NWRatCon]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

fallacy fallacy.

rofl.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Manafort was in the employ of V. Yanukovych, a former president of the Ukraine and head of Burisma Holdings. BTW, the Ukraine hates Russia, is the closest hating nation to Russia and the Crimea used to be part of The Ukraine but was swallowed up by Russia.

LOL Do you know where Victor Y. lives now? He was impeached from office for corruption and collusion with Vlad Putin and his oligarchs. He now lives in Moscow. Yes Ukraine hates Yanukovych with a passion. He sold out Ukraine to Moscow and stole untold billions of their wealth. Similar to what is happening here with Trump.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Yes circumstances matter. That does not mean the term process crimes are meaningless. Manafort was convicted for some obscure law that nobody is ever prosecuted for and Flynn was prosecuted because of an inconsistency in his statements. Neither of those things were a big deal but they were prosecuted as if they were. It exposes a prosecutor predjuidice that nobody should be excusing.

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LOL So tax evasion is an "obscure law" to you? Manafort hid millions of Russian dollars from the IRS. And you think he was railroaded and we should pity him? :lamo

 

[trouble13]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

LOL So tax evasion is an "obscure law" to you? Manafort hid millions of Russian dollars from the IRS. And you think he was railroaded and we should pity him? :lamo

I was referring to him not registering as a foreign agent.

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[iguanaman]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

I was referring to him not registering as a foreign agent.

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Yea we should have looked the other way at an Americans citizen secretly taking money from our biggest adversary to promote Russian national security while damaging ours. What's the big deal? I. pretty sure you would jump at the chance. Money is money no matter how you get it. Isn't that the Trump way?

 

[trouble13]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

Yea we should have looked the other way at an Americans citizen secretly taking money from our biggest adversary to promote Russian national security while damaging ours. What's the big deal? I. pretty sure you would jump at the chance. Money is money no matter how you get it. Isn't that the Trump way?

You must be absolutely outraged that his partner Podesta wasnt also charged.

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[Vern]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

You must be absolutely outraged that his partner Podesta wasnt also charged.

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er uh trouble, can you explain this "both sides" argument about "his partner Podesta". thanks in advance.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

er uh trouble, can you explain this "both sides" argument about "his partner Podesta". thanks in advance.

They noth fail to register as foregin agents but only 1 of them was charged.

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[cabse5]

Re: Graham says he's '1,000 percent confident' Russia, not Ukraine, hacked DNC

the point you seem to be missing is that trump and republicans were pushing the narrative that Ukraine hacked the DNC. That's why Graham is specifically referencing emails. And like most conservatives you are trying to equate whatever you imagine Ukraine did (they did nothing but you imagine they did something) with Russian hacking the DNC, using troll farms speading false information and attacking state's election infrastructure . Here's the senate report concerning that last point

Russian government-affiliated cyber actors conducted an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure in the run-up to the 2016 U.S. elections.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

So please clearly state what you think Ukraine did (we'll worry about you backing it up later) and compare it to what Russia actually did. I'm looking for you to justify your "both sides" argument. And saying Russia "interfered" is a misnomer. Russia attacked our democracy.

Trump doesn't know that the Ukraine hacked the server(s) that contained the DNC emails. Trump doesn't know who, allegedly, hacked the server(s) that contained the DNC emails.

That is why Trump asked Zelensky to investigate Crowdstrike in the phone call. Trump is applying the conspiracy theory that a former oligarch of the Ukraine who has a vested interest in Crowdstrike holds those servers.
What is CrowdStrike? Firm Hired by DNC has Ties to Hillary Clinton, a Ukrainian Billionaire and Google - The Daily Coin