[W:493]I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

[Daisy]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Actually, it is 'Observation, there is strong evidence that the Ark as described would not be sea worthy, there is strong evidence there was no world wide flood,
Observation There is not enough water on earth to support a world wide flood.
Observation That much water falling down would cause a tremendous amount of heat energy, which would boil the water off, and kill anybody on a boat.

Conclusion from the data. The story as written is impossible.

So,your attempt at logic was basically a strawman.

Think again...

Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture

FOR more than 40 years, I have worked as a naval architect and marine engineer. My work has involved designing vessels of various shapes and sizes, along with the mechanical and other systems that propel them. In 1963, while I was living in British Columbia, Canada, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses showed me that the Bible book of Genesis describes Noah’s ark as a long box, or chest. This description intrigued me, and I decided to look into it further.

The Genesis account shows that God determined to cleanse the earth of wickedness by deluging the planet with water. He told Noah to construct an ark in order to preserve himself, his family, and representatives of the animal world through this great Flood. God told Noah to make the ark 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. (Genesis 6:15) According to one conservative estimate, this would make the ark about 438 feet [134 m] long, 73 feet [22 m] wide, and 44 feet [13 m] high.* It thus had a gross volume of some 1,400,000 cubic feet [40,000 cu m].

The Ark’s Design

The ark was constructed with three decks, which gave it added strength and provided a total floor space of about 96,000 square feet [8,900 sq m]. It was built of resinous​—and thus water-resistant—​wood, possibly cypress, and was sealed inside and outside with tar. (Genesis 6:14-16) We are not told how Noah fastened the timbers together. But even before relating the Flood account, the Bible mentions forgers of copper and iron tools. (Genesis 4:22) In any case, to this day wooden drive pins known as treenails are used to build some wooden ships.

The ark had internal compartments, a door in its side, and a one-cubit-high tsoʹhar, which may have been a gabled roof, possibly having openings below it for ventilation and light. The Genesis account makes no mention, however, of a keel or a prow or of any sails, oars, or rudders on the ark. In fact, the same Hebrew word for “ark” is used to describe the pitch-covered basket used by the mother of the infant Moses to keep him afloat in the waters of the Nile River.​—Exodus 2:3, 10.

Good Seakeeping

The ark’s length was six times its width and ten times its height. Many modern ships have similar proportions, although for them the length-to-breadth ratio is chosen with regard to the power required to move them through the water. The ark, on the other hand, had only to float. How well would it have performed?

The manner in which vessels respond to wind and waves is called seakeeping behavior. This too is related to a vessel’s proportions. The Bible describes the tremendous downpour that produced the Flood and also says that God later caused a wind to blow. (Genesis 7:11, 12, 17-20; 8:1) The Scriptures do not say how strong the waves and wind were, but likely both wind and waves would have been powerful and changeable, even as they can be today. The longer and harder the wind blows, the higher and farther apart are the waves. In addition, any seismic action could have produced strong waves.

The ark’s proportions contributed to its stability, preventing it from capsizing. The ark was also designed to deal with the forces that could cause it to pitch lengthwise in heavy seas. Extreme pitching​—when each wave lifts one end of the vessel and then allows it to plunge downward—​would have been very uncomfortable for the people and animals on board. Pitching also puts heavy stresses on a vessel. The structure must be strong enough to resist the tendency to sag in the middle when large waves lift both ends of the vessel at the same time. Yet, when a large wave lifts the vessel at its midpoint, with nothing to support its ends, the bow and stern may bend downward. God told Noah to use a length-to-depth ratio of 10 to 1. Later shipbuilders would learn only by hard experience that such a ratio can accommodate these stresses.

Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Daisy]

Safe and Comfortable

Because of the ark’s chestlike shape, buoyancy​—the force that makes a boat float—​would have been uniform from end to end. Its weight too would have been uniform. Likely, Noah made sure that the cargo​—including the animals and more than a year’s supply of food—​was distributed evenly. Good weight distribution minimizes the additional stress that cargo places on a vessel’s structure. Thus, two main factors contributed to the ability of the ark and its passengers to ride out the global Flood safely​—the ark’s divinely originated design and Jehovah’s protective care. God undoubtedly saw to it that the ark came to rest in a safe and suitable location.

My thorough examination of this subject led me to conclude that what the Bible says about Noah’s ark is realistic and consistent with modern shipbuilding practice. Of course, there are many details about the ark and the Flood that are not mentioned in the Genesis account. I hope one day, after the resurrection, to meet Noah here on earth, right among the families of humans and animals whose existence was made possible by the ark that he worked so long and hard to construct. (Acts 24:15; Hebrews 11:7) First, I will thank him and his family. Then I will ply him with many questions.​—Contributed.

Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Incredulous]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

The main reason churches do charity is to convert people to their religion/denomination and enrich and empower the clergy. This has almost always led to abuse of power and corruption. People have to change religions or lie about it if they need help. That's not a good system.

And they have had many centuries to make it work. While helpful, it has never been an adequate substitute for formal government systems to help those who fall through the cracks.

Makes sense. It's quite hypocritical that the more religious party thinks too much money is spent on welfare but run their religious "social" clubs tax free while the majority of churches do very little for the community they're in. And yes, the dark underbelly of that righteousness is often the most heinous. If I had my way, the Catholic Churches in the US would lose their tax exemption and be forced to pay damages fo victims - liquidate the churches. They covered up AND enabled abusers for decades. Let their heads roll.

 

[Daisy]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

A respected author put his views on you tube - forgive me for assuming you wouldn't read a book but might watch a YouTube video.

Believe it or not, there are also tons of videos proving the flood really happened...your point?

 

[blarg]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

The point was...the global scale of such stories should tell you something...there is truth woven in there somewhere that cannot be denied...

that lots of agriculture in river valleys means people dealing with flooding?

 

[Rich2018]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Yeah, when a poster gets ridiculous they get a lol...

Says the woman who believes the Bible is true.

Except when science proves it false and then it's just a metaphor.

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

You do realize the entire world consisted of a relatively small area at that time, right?

Uh... NO. The world was the same size it is now, and all areas of the earth were inhabited. I specifically even referred to the Hongshan culture of Mongolia and China. What? You still subscribe to the "Ham, Shem, and Japeth" Near Eastern mythos?


OM

 

[Rich2018]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

This is a pitiably weak argument:

P: There is a lack of evidence.
P: The story being true is impossible.
C: Therefore, it is false.

See the problem?

Never mind the claim that the Ark did not exist and could not exist. You don't know that it could not or didn't.

There is a lack of evidence
The story is impossible (do you know how many species of beetles there are? I'm guessing not)
QED the Biblical story of the Ark is false

Demonstrably false

See the logic?

So we know that Noah's Ark didn't and couldn't exist.
But go ahead and believe such nonsense if you wil or is it another retreat into metaphor?

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

That is not factual.

Kind of bizarre that somebody from the 21st century of the Common Era would actually believe that the inhabitants of the entire world a scant 4300 years ago were somehow confined to a distinct geological region; that there were no inhabitants in the Far East or the Far West.


OM

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Yet the universality of the flood accounts for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one family is dismissed by you...I see...:2razz:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - of which there is absolutely none.


OM

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

The inhabited world was or do you think the whole earth has always been completely inhabited since day one? If so, I got a bridge to sell ya...:2razz:

Nobody is talking about "day one"; however the anthropological record (that would be science) is clear that all areas of the earth (except for the southern polar region) were inhabited a scant 4300 years ago.


OM

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

This is a pitiably weak argument:

P: There is a lack of evidence.
P: The story being true is impossible.
C: Therefore, it is false.

See the problem?

Never mind the claim that the Ark did not exist and could not exist. You don't know that it could not or didn't.

The anthropological record confirms that there was no sudden worldwide extinction event just over 4000 years ago, thus no "global flood", thus no "Noah's Ark".


OM

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Believe it or not, there are also tons of videos proving the flood really happened...your point?

They do no such thing.


OM

 

[Rich2018]

Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Just what would be a year's supply of food - did the carnivorous dinosaurs eat the other animals ?

What did the lions eat ?

What did the anteaters eat?

Why have over 99% of animals become extinct?

Were all stages of man on the boat or just homo sapiens?

Why doesn't the geological records show a flood?

How did all the plants grow back?

How did the human population expand in time for the pyramids?

Are you really saying that the various races of humans evolved after just a couple hundred years?


QED: The Ark story is about as true as the flying carpet in Arabian Nights.

 

[Rich2018]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Believe it or not, there are also tons of videos proving the flood really happened...your point?

See post# 724

The evidence is that the great flood never happened.
There is no proof that the flood happened.


Out of interest, do you believe that dinosaurs were on the Ark.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Do you not know what a strawman is? A syllogism?

Yes, you were misrepresenting the oppositions viewpoint. you know you were doing that, don't you?

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

Think again...



Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

That actually is full of misinformation. A wooden vessel that size would not have the structural integrity to withstand a storm. It would snap in two. It might float, but rough seas.. such as in rain that is 43 feet an hour needed, would break it in two.

 

[Omega Man]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

That actually is full of misinformation. A wooden vessel that size would not have the structural integrity to withstand a storm. It would snap in two. It might float, but rough seas.. such as in rain that is 43 feet an hour needed, would break it in two.

That humans of the 21st century of the Common Era are still having this debate is a testament to the sheer absurdity of ideological confirmation bias. It is much more likely for Charon to ferry my corpse to the gates of the underworld, than it was for a Near Eastern "global" flood myth to have ever occurred.


OM

 

[Daisy]

Just what would be a year's supply of food - did the carnivorous dinosaurs eat the other animals ?

What did the lions eat ?

What did the anteaters eat?

Why have over 99% of animals become extinct?

Were all stages of man on the boat or just homo sapiens?

Why doesn't the geological records show a flood?

How did all the plants grow back?

How did the human population expand in time for the pyramids?

Are you really saying that the various races of humans evolved after just a couple hundred years?


QED: The Ark story is about as true as the flying carpet in Arabian Nights.

Really? There were no dinosaurs by that time...:roll:

Ample Carrying Capacity. The passenger list of the ark was quite impressive. Besides Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives, living creatures “of every sort of flesh, two of each,” were to be taken aboard. “Male and female they will be. Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” Of the clean beasts and fowls, seven of each kind were to be taken. A great quantity and variety of food for all these creatures, to last for more than a year, also had to be stowed away.​—Ge 6:18-21; 7:2, 3.

The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”​—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind​—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—​all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

These estimates may seem too restrictive to some, especially since such sources as The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.

Five months after the Deluge began, “the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat,” not likely, however, atop the uppermost peak (nearly 5,165 m; 16,950 ft), but on suitable terrain where everyone aboard lived comfortably for some months more. Finally, after a year and ten days from the time the Deluge began, the door again was opened and all aboard disembarked.​—Ge 7:11; 8:4, 14.

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Daisy]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

That actually is full of misinformation. A wooden vessel that size would not have the structural integrity to withstand a storm. It would snap in two. It might float, but rough seas.. such as in rain that is 43 feet an hour needed, would break it in two.

And of course you know more than naval architect and marine engineer...lol...

 

[Nilhus]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

The bible is full of socialist/communist ideas.

Here are some interesting verses:

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 6:24:
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Here's the inspiration for Marx:

Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

It very funny watching religious people trying to dismiss these verses as "irrelevant", "taken out of context" and so on.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

And of course you know more than naval architect and marine engineer...lol...

Why, I have seen an analysis of the situation from people who are. Yes, it would float, it would even hold 70,000 animals (about 1/10 of what would be needed), if you discounted food needed for the year.

 

[Rich2018]

Really? There were no dinosaurs by that time...

Not according to Answers in Genesis

I've been to the Ark Encounter and they claim ALL animals including dinosaurs were on the Ark - are you claiming that those Christians are wrong?


YouTube


The Bible says all animals that had the breath of life came to the Ark, that includes T-Rex. Maybe you need to read your Bible again? Or is this another of your metaphors that an entire church missed?

 

[Daisy]

Not according to Answers in Genesis

I've been to the Ark Encounter and they claim ALL animals including dinosaurs were on the Ark - are you claiming that those Christians are wrong?


YouTube


The Bible says all animals that had the breath of life came to the Ark, that includes T-Rex. Maybe you need to read your Bible again? Or is this another of your metaphors that an entire church missed?

lol...

 

[JustHanging]

Re: I had yet another person tell me that Jesus was a socialist

And of course you know more than naval architect and marine engineer...lol...

I know more than this one if he's trying tell us a bronze age family with no naval architectural knowledge, built a giant boat big enough to hold two of every animal on earth, and the required food, using only hand tools, and that this craft could withstand a year at sea. Obviously.

If a space engineer told you that cavemen built a spaceship and flew it to Alpha Centauri, would that make it true?