[W:411]Proof of Trump Causing Unnecessary Covid-19 Deaths

[Conservative]

I know. I do it not to convince him but for others to read. He is not personally worth the time of day.

I used to think some of the radical posters here were book smart and street stupid, now I am questioning the book smart description. There is nothing book smart about people ignoring actual verifiable data with context. Irrational and arrogant people reside in the liberal ideology as their belief in superior intelligence is destroyed by the official data that is ignored.

You people live in a liberal dream world where self gratification comes from the love affair you have with each other. None have any future in the private sector economy as the left always places blame never proposes any solutions. Throughout this thread that describes you as if the blame is even relevant today.

 

[Conservative]

This is a lie. You are one of the least respected members of this forum, and it's been this way for years.

LOL, you don't speak for the forum only yourself and believe me my feelings for you are exactly the same

 

[ElChupacabra]

That is exactly what I am telling you, logic, common sense, and personal responsibility during a pandemic, why do you need a bureaucrat to tell you what to do?

Logic, and common sense are as good as the knowledge base from which they're based. Bad information will lead to faulty logic and equally flawed "common sense". The general idea behind governance is we elect officials who will handle the macro level responsibilities, and based on the information they're receiving from the experts they appoint, are able to give us accurate threat assessments and courses of action. For example, if one listened to Trump's statement that the US is doing such a great job the 15 cases will soon be 0, a person could use that information to base their threat assessment and assume it isn't a big deal. Someone could then take unnecessary risks exposing them to the disease.

Again, this is all about blame and nothing about recovery , the longer you can divert attention from the recovery the better off for you to believe your ideology will be restored to the WH

It isn't actually, but I understand why to you that always seems to be the case. You seem to echo the same concerns that this is purely an economic issue and that the health aspect is secondary. I find it odd that you show such little faith in Trump's ability to perform economic miracles in spite of the pandemic. This will be a big test for this presidency and his ability to balance a threat which intertwines economic and health concerns. The stock market performance will no longer be a boasting point when there is record levels of unemployment; similarly, economic recovery will depend on how comfortable people feel about the risk to their health. To me the big win from a messaging perspective isn't to minimize the threat of catching the disease, but assuring people there will be hospital beds available should they get ill, or that they won't be bankrupted by hospital bills should they get sick. While the threat of being hospitalized is out there, people will act according to the financial and health risks. Those without insurance will likely stick to on the essential outings, while others in better health and financial situations might have more options. Trying to downplay what most people understand to be a serious disease is a pretty dumb approach in my opinion, and only works with people who choose to put blinders on.

 

[Bullseye]

Given that it was declared a national emergency on March 1st, one would assume the Federal government would have been prepared to rapidly mobilize the necessary supplies to the states that needed them. Unfortunately it wasn't prepared and why it's fair to critique that lack of preparedness given what was widely known about the contagion rate with this disease.

Seems like the states would also have been prepared to deal with their needs. That's how federalism works; states take the lead and the FEDS support. Trump stepped up pretty well getting private businesses to shift their business into producing equipment and supplies needed by states.

I meant what where they specifically were they pushing back on.

Anything and everything.

Indeed, but what's interesting here is that the current president has been hell bent on erasing anything the previous one did, yet this one came back to bite him and everyone else. Trump likely took a gamble assuming there would be no pandemic during his tenure and let sleeping dogs lie. The worst part is he then complained the previous administration left no plan when in fact they did.

I disagree. IF there were a plan, why wasn't it executed? What WAS the plan? Obama Admin didn't refill the stockpiles to the levels prescribed in the plan.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Seems like the states would also have been prepared to deal with their needs. That's how federalism works; states take the lead and the FEDS support. Trump stepped up pretty well getting private businesses to shift their business into producing equipment and supplies needed by states.

Yes, and that was already happening when the cases started ramping up. Some states started sounding the alarm when it became clear they were likely to become overwhelmed with cases due to the exponential growth in cases over a short period of time. The question regarding this administration's response, is why it was reactionary versus a proactive one given the time there was to prepare for an outbreak.

I disagree. IF there were a plan, why wasn't it executed? What WAS the plan? Obama Admin didn't refill the stockpiles to the levels prescribed in the plan.

It wasn't a plan as much as it was a playbook for the new administration to review and use as a resource guide; here's the link. It outlines various aspects that we've already seen play out during this pandemic. This was released after McConnell stated the previous administration left no plans or guidance for pandemic situations; he had to retract his claim after it was clear there was something given to the current administration.

As for the stockpiles, they should have been replenished but weren't. I suppose I could pose the same question you mentioned in a previous post: when have you known an administration accomplish everything it set out to do? This still doesn't absolve the current administration of its responsibilities though. What it calls into question is its ability to assess threats to the nation and its ability to prepare for them.

 

[Bullseye]

Yes, and that was already happening when the cases started ramping up. Some states started sounding the alarm when it became clear they were likely to become overwhelmed with cases due to the exponential growth in cases over a short period of time. The question regarding this administration's response, is why it was reactionary versus a proactive one given the time there was to prepare for an outbreak.

Which states? And when? Closing travel from China was pretty proactive. Probably should have done Europe at the same time. We had several scientists working on tests; in the beginning only official CDC labs could test - bureaucracy at its best. CDC also shut down a team in Seattle that had developed a test because they didn't have to correct paperwork from CDC to do that type of work

It wasn't a plan as much as it was a playbook for the new administration to review and use as a resource guide; here's the link. It outlines various aspects that we've already seen play out during this pandemic. This was released after McConnell stated the previous administration left no plans or guidance for pandemic situations; he had to retract his claim after it was clear there was something given to the current administration.

Released AFTER . . .?

As for the stockpiles, they should have been replenished but weren't. I suppose I could pose the same question you mentioned in a previous post: when have you known an administration accomplish everything it set out to do? This still doesn't absolve the current administration of its responsibilities though. What it calls into question is its ability to assess threats to the nation and its ability to prepare for them.

The current Administration managed to overcome those shortages by working with private sector. And pretty damn fast. We flooding the market with ventilators, PPE, etc. Now we have excesses and medical staff are being let go, and hospital capacity is 25-40% used. Testing is steaming ahead. That's also pretty damn good.

 

[Luckyone]

And that made you feel better?? What results came from that and eventually Benghazi? I have lost nothing as my credibility is in tact, yours not so much. What you have proven is that rhetoric trumps reality in the liberal world and there isn't anything that Trump could do to earn your support, thankfully it won't be needed as the special elections in California(the bluest state of them all) and Wisconsin didn't show the Trump backlash that you want to believe is there

Your loyalty to liberalism and Obama defies logic and common sense. Your ignorance of the pre pandemic results is on full display as is the liberal arrogance that you know what is best for everyone else and belief that the President of the United States had the authority to order mandatory social distancing or lockdowns.

You are being ridiculous once again. This is not about politics but about proving that all your comments are biased and pure BS. You brought up Obama in the context that I stated that Trump never accepts responsibility and I proved you wrong by showing that Obama did accept responsibility for some of the things he did wrong.

You simply cannot debate any issue intelligently and constantly try to prove you are right, when in effect you lose every fight.

It is becoming your MO.

 

[Luckyone]

I used to think some of the radical posters here were book smart and street stupid, now I am questioning the book smart description. There is nothing book smart about people ignoring actual verifiable data with context. Irrational and arrogant people reside in the liberal ideology as their belief in superior intelligence is destroyed by the official data that is ignored.

You people live in a liberal dream world where self gratification comes from the love affair you have with each other. None have any future in the private sector economy as the left always places blame never proposes any solutions. Throughout this thread that describes you as if the blame is even relevant today.

This is the only reality.............you live in a fantasy world

 

[Conservative]

You are being ridiculous once again. This is not about politics but about proving that all your comments are biased and pure BS. You brought up Obama in the context that I stated that Trump never accepts responsibility and I proved you wrong by showing that Obama did accept responsibility for some of the things he did wrong.

You simply cannot debate any issue intelligently and constantly try to prove you are right, when in effect you lose every fight.

It is becoming your MO.

What is biased and full of bs are the continued politics of personal destruction focused on a President based upon total ignorance of the Constitution. Nothing changes the mind of a radical. You did no such, Obama wasn't in that video you posted and regardless Benghazi destroys your narrative. Your passion and love affair with Obama is cult like

 

[Conservative]

This is the only reality.............you live in a fantasy world

View attachment 67281426

Conservative world is all about personal responsibility and generating results allowing people like you to make choices, good or bad. Yours is the nanny state ideology where there are no consequences for poor choices as they are always someone else's fault when you make a mistake

 

[Redress]

This is a lie. You are one of the least respected members of this forum, and it's been this way for years.

LOL, you don't speak for the forum only yourself and believe me my feelings for you are exactly the same

This is the only reality.............you live in a fantasy world

View attachment 67281426

Moderator's Warning:

Take your little slapfights to the basement, or end them. This thread has a topic, and it is not what you 3 think of each other. If you 3, or anyone else, cannot get on, and stay on topic, and stop the personal attacks, no matter how mild, you will be removed from the thread, probably with points.

 

[Luckyone]

What is biased and full of bs are the continued politics of personal destruction focused on a President based upon total ignorance of the Constitution. Nothing changes the mind of a radical. You did no such, Obama wasn't in that video you posted and regardless Benghazi destroys your narrative. Your passion and love affair with Obama is cult like

Face it, there has never been a worse president than Trump. Not only my opinion but that of historians that are experts at ranking presidents!

President Trump Ranks Last in 'Presidential Greatness,' According to Historians

 

[ElChupacabra]

Which states? And when? Closing travel from China was pretty proactive. Probably should have done Europe at the same time. We had several scientists working on tests; in the beginning only official CDC labs could test - bureaucracy at its best. CDC also shut down a team in Seattle that had developed a test because they didn't have to correct paperwork from CDC to do that type of work

Washington for starters in late February, and NY when things were getting grim in mid April. Inslee was critical of the downplaying of the threat the virus posed. Closing travel from China was proactive, but without the contact tracing and uneven testing procedures, it wasn't an effective way of clamping down on everyone who was coming back from China. The focus was on foreign nationals, but clearly anyone who had been in the area was a potential carrier; that focus is what generated the backlash from Democrats. I don't think the travel restriction was a bad thing necessarily, but without additional measures, it didn't serve its intended purpose well. I do think restrictions on travel to any areas with growing number of cases would have been prudent, but with stringent screenings of all people entering the US from those regions; including US citizens.

The implementation of testing was also pretty clumsy. While some nations do develop their own tests, not pivoting quickly after the first defective test was sent out cost a lot of time. There's a lot of red tape to getting medications and tests approved (mostly to protect people from bad medicines), this is one case where there could have been more done to expedite. If the case you're referring to is the company who was asked to send hard copies of their test to the FDA, then yes, that's the kind of crappy bureaucracy that requires circumventing in emergency scenarios.

Released AFTER . . .?

It was given to the current administration when the previous one departed. It was released publicly when the claims that there was no plan was made by McConnell.

The current Administration managed to overcome those shortages by working with private sector. And pretty damn fast. We flooding the market with ventilators, PPE, etc. Now we have excesses and medical staff are being let go, and hospital capacity is 25-40% used. Testing is steaming ahead. That's also pretty damn good.

Yeah, there are some wins here, but I hope the lesson from this is preparation is key to nipping pandemics in the bud. A cohesive strategy and communication at the executive level that's echoed by local government helps as well. The disparate messaging and ankle biting by the president didn't help matters; neither did his downplaying of the virus early on. I think the president is better served by communicating on the actions being taken to ensure people will be able to get treatment should there be an infection spike resulting from the reopening. Continuing to tell people there's nothing to worry about isn't proving effective since many know the threat is still out there.

 

[Bullseye]

Washington for starters in late February, and NY when things were getting grim in mid April. Inslee was critical of the downplaying of the threat the virus posed. Closing travel from China was proactive, but without the contact tracing and uneven testing procedures, it wasn't an effective way of clamping down on everyone who was coming back from China. The focus was on foreign nationals, but clearly anyone who had been in the area was a potential carrier; that focus is what generated the backlash from Democrats. I don't think the travel restriction was a bad thing necessarily, but without additional measures, it didn't serve its intended purpose well. I do think restrictions on travel to any areas with growing number of cases would have been prudent, but with stringent screenings of all people entering the US from those regions; including US citizens.

The implementation of testing was also pretty clumsy. While some nations do develop their own tests, not pivoting quickly after the first defective test was sent out cost a lot of time. There's a lot of red tape to getting medications and tests approved (mostly to protect people from bad medicines), this is one case where there could have been more done to expedite. If the case you're referring to is the company who was asked to send hard copies of their test to the FDA, then yes, that's the kind of crappy bureaucracy that requires circumventing in emergency scenarios.






It was given to the current administration when the previous one departed. It was released publicly when the claims that there was no plan was made by McConnell.




Yeah, there are some wins here, but I hope the lesson from this is preparation is key to nipping pandemics in the bud. A cohesive strategy and communication at the executive level that's echoed by local government helps as well. The disparate messaging and ankle biting by the president didn't help matters; neither did his downplaying of the virus early on. I think the president is better served by communicating on the actions being taken to ensure people will be able to get treatment should there be an infection spike resulting from the reopening. Continuing to tell people there's nothing to worry about isn't proving effective since many know the threat is still out there.

In mid December China was still claiming they'd seen no person to person transmission. If I recall correctly CDC when along with that. Even in late January Dr. Fauci was saying it was just another flu. Trump's travel ban at the end of January was called rash, xenophobic, racist. Even his mention of the virus during the State of Union speech didn't spur much action.

Ignoring 20/20 hindsight what could we have done earlier.

 

[ElChupacabra]

In mid December China was still claiming they'd seen no person to person transmission. If I recall correctly CDC when along with that. Even in late January Dr. Fauci was saying it was just another flu. Trump's travel ban at the end of January was called rash, xenophobic, racist. Even his mention of the virus during the State of Union speech didn't spur much action.

Yep, which is why the lessons are there to be learned for all involved and not just at the partisan level.

Ignoring 20/20 hindsight what could we have done earlier.

Ok, but those were things which we should have replicated versus just ignoring it. I hope it isn't ignored by other administrations going forward.

 

[Bullseye]

Yep, which is why the lessons are there to be learned for all involved and not just at the partisan level.

I'm sure stocking the National Medical Stockpile will get a higher priority although we have incurred massive debt that needs to be services and tax revenues aren't going to be great until the economy returns.

Ok, but those were things which we should have replicated versus just ignoring it. I hope it isn't ignored by other administrations going forward.

I'm sure there will long lists of lessons learned.

 

[Conservative]

Face it, there has never been a worse president than Trump. Not only my opinion but that of historians that are experts at ranking presidents!

I think it is time to leave this OP, You win, Trump is a total and complete ass as you have stated and after three years in office no question he is the worst President in history as the actual results posted by official sites are false and manufactured by Fox News.

Obama should be on Mt. Rushmore for the incredible job he did during his 8 years in office. Incredible results in spite of losing the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16 creating that booming economy that created what 20 million jobs. His reaction to the pandemic in 2009 was outstanding and he left Trump with all the supplies he needed for the CV. Trump has them hidden in Mar a Lago so that when he leaves office he can sell those supplies at an inflated price back to the Blue states in this country who will pay for them with the Federal tax dollars that President Biden will be given them to cover their state shortfall. Biden will have the first illegals in his cabinet, will nominate Obama for the Supreme Court and will not serve out his term leaving in favor of VP Hillary who will move into the WH with first Husband Bill. Michele will be Secretary of State and will work very closely with China to undo all the harm Trump did in forcing China to quite stealing intellectual property and manipulating their currency. Back to Business as usual

Hillary will be immediately recognized by Presidential scholars as the best President in history, receive the Nobel Peace Prize for getting Israel defeated and the area turned over the the Palestinians creating lasting world peace, and work with Schumer and Pelosi to change the Constitution so she can served unlimited terms in the WH. The American people need Hillary and will get her through Biden.

There never will be a President like Trump again thanks to the liberal agenda which lived up to its billing. Trump will be prosecuted and live out the rest of his life at San Quentin in solitary confinement.

Thank you so much for opening my eyes as my entire 35 years in the private sector, my years of having good parents teaching me personal responsibility and how to work hard to raise a family were for naught as I could have been a Democrat my entire life and let the gov't take care of me, a lot less stress. Congratulations on an incredible job selling me on how foolish it is not to have a federal bureaucrat around to tell me to social distance and wear a mask. No question you will be getting exactly the Administration you deserve

 

[Luckyone]

I think it is time to leave this OP, You win, Trump is a total and complete ass as you have stated and after three years in office no question he is the worst President in history as the actual results posted by official sites are false and manufactured by Fox News.

Obama should be on Mt. Rushmore for the incredible job he did during his 8 years in office. Incredible results in spite of losing the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16 creating that booming economy that created what 20 million jobs. His reaction to the pandemic in 2009 was outstanding and he left Trump with all the supplies he needed for the CV. Trump has them hidden in Mar a Lago so that when he leaves office he can sell those supplies at an inflated price back to the Blue states in this country who will pay for them with the Federal tax dollars that President Biden will be given them to cover their state shortfall. Biden will have the first illegals in his cabinet, will nominate Obama for the Supreme Court and will not serve out his term leaving in favor of VP Hillary who will move into the WH with first Husband Bill. Michele will be Secretary of State and will work very closely with China to undo all the harm Trump did in forcing China to quite stealing intellectual property and manipulating their currency. Back to Business as usual

Hillary will be immediately recognized by Presidential scholars as the best President in history, receive the Nobel Peace Prize for getting Israel defeated and the area turned over the the Palestinians creating lasting world peace, and work with Schumer and Pelosi to change the Constitution so she can served unlimited terms in the WH. The American people need Hillary and will get her through Biden.

There never will be a President like Trump again thanks to the liberal agenda which lived up to its billing. Trump will be prosecuted and live out the rest of his life at San Quentin in solitary confinement.

Thank you so much for opening my eyes as my entire 35 years in the private sector, my years of having good parents teaching me personal responsibility and how to work hard to raise a family were for naught as I could have been a Democrat my entire life and let the gov't take care of me, a lot less stress. Congratulations on an incredible job selling me on how foolish it is not to have a federal bureaucrat around to tell me to social distance and wear a mask. No question you will be getting exactly the Administration you deserve

It is evident by your post that you not naturally blind but blind by choice.

 

[Ethel2]

I think it is time to leave this OP, You win, Trump is a total and complete ass as you have stated and after three years in office no question he is the worst President in history as the actual results posted by official sites are false and manufactured by Fox News.

Obama should be on Mt. Rushmore for the incredible job he did during his 8 years in office. Incredible results in spite of losing the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16 creating that booming economy that created what 20 million jobs. His reaction to the pandemic in 2009 was outstanding and he left Trump with all the supplies he needed for the CV. Trump has them hidden in Mar a Lago so that when he leaves office he can sell those supplies at an inflated price back to the Blue states in this country who will pay for them with the Federal tax dollars that President Biden will be given them to cover their state shortfall. Biden will have the first illegals in his cabinet, will nominate Obama for the Supreme Court and will not serve out his term leaving in favor of VP Hillary who will move into the WH with first Husband Bill. Michele will be Secretary of State and will work very closely with China to undo all the harm Trump did in forcing China to quite stealing intellectual property and manipulating their currency. Back to Business as usual

Hillary will be immediately recognized by Presidential scholars as the best President in history, receive the Nobel Peace Prize for getting Israel defeated and the area turned over the the Palestinians creating lasting world peace, and work with Schumer and Pelosi to change the Constitution so she can served unlimited terms in the WH. The American people need Hillary and will get her through Biden.

There never will be a President like Trump again thanks to the liberal agenda which lived up to its billing. Trump will be prosecuted and live out the rest of his life at San Quentin in solitary confinement.

Thank you so much for opening my eyes as my entire 35 years in the private sector, my years of having good parents teaching me personal responsibility and how to work hard to raise a family were for naught as I could have been a Democrat my entire life and let the gov't take care of me, a lot less stress. Congratulations on an incredible job selling me on how foolish it is not to have a federal bureaucrat around to tell me to social distance and wear a mask. No question you will be getting exactly the Administration you deserve

There is no president who has no redeeming features IMO. Those who believe that Obama (or Trump or Bush or ....fill in the blank) are all bad or all good have a very closed mind. For my part I like some of the things Trump has done with the economy and with people being in or entering this country illegally (whatever happened to following the rules and waiting in line to get in?), but how badly he botched the Covid 19 response will forever color his presidency black for me. He knew in late January or early February that this was possible but his choice was to listen to the group of advisors who trivialized the possibility that a disaster was brewing. He is accountable for that, and for me at least, he is judged by that choice. You just can't make a decision that costs tens of thousands of American lives; its indefensible.

 

[Tahuyaman]

Trump was told as early as late January of the potential problems of the pandemic. He chose not to listen!

And when he acted, Democrats were outraged because they said he acted too quickly.