[W:363]accepting gay as normal

[roguenuke]

Actually, if I recall adopted kids on average do better in studies 10-20 years ago back when virtually all adoptions were to a married man and woman and relatively higher incomes. Even with adopted kids included among those who were not born to their married mother and father, on average the children born to their married mother and father do better. Because the majority of the kids not born to their married mother and father are born to and dependent upon a single mother, and not a wealthy husband and wife who adopt them.

Show the studies to support this. Same sex couples have been adopting and raising children for decades. You have yet to show any studies to support your claims.

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[dixon01767]

Treating homosexuals as equals betters the well being of our children

The laws enacted for the benefit of homosexuals are generally UNequal by design. While the two old retired gay guys are free to marry, the two old retired sisters are denied the benefits. Wouldn't help gays feel better about themselves if they were to just let any two consenting adults marry.

 

[vegas giants]

The laws enacted for the benefit of homosexuals are generally UNequal by design. While the two old retired gay guys are free to marry, the two old retired sisters are denied the benefits. Wouldn't help gays feel better about themselves if they were to just let any two consenting adults marry.

You are saying all marriage laws are discriminatory.


All of them



Long before gays got that right

 

[roguenuke]

The laws enacted for the benefit of homosexuals are generally UNequal by design. While the two old retired gay guys are free to marry, the two old retired sisters are denied the benefits. Wouldn't help gays feel better about themselves if they were to just let any two consenting adults marry.

Is there a significant group of retired sisters looking to get married who are pushing for those laws to change? Note also how you dont mention that a retired brother and sister living together also cannot get married, and you probably never argued for them to be able to marry prior to this. Yet two old retired opposite sex friends, perhaps a widow and widower, could get married for those same benefits all along.

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[maquiscat]

The laws enacted for the benefit of homosexuals are generally UNequal by design. While the two old retired gay guys are free to marry, the two old retired sisters are denied the benefits. Wouldn't help gays feel better about themselves if they were to just let any two consenting adults marry.

I have long advocated that legal marriage should be allowed between any two individuals, especially since legal marriage requires neither love, sex or children.

 

[dixon01767]

Show the studies to support this. Same sex couples have been adopting and raising children for decades. You have yet to show any studies to support your claims.

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And you haven't presented any to support your claims. And kids adopted by a same sex couple are such a tiny minority that they really have no impact upon the statistics on all kids. Whereas children born to married mothers and fathers and children born to single mothers makes up ? 95% ? + of all kids.

 

[vegas giants]

And you haven't presented any to support your claims. And kids adopted by a same sex couple are such a tiny minority that they really have no impact upon the statistics on all kids. Whereas children born to married mothers and fathers and children born to single mothers makes up ? 95% ? + of all kids.

I guess you have no evidence that it's a problem

 

[dixon01767]

I have long advocated that legal marriage should be allowed between any two individuals, especially since legal marriage requires neither love, sex or children.

Laws of 50 states disagree currently.

 

[dixon01767]

I guess you have no evidence that it's a problem

???? Evidence that what is a problem?

 

[vegas giants]

???? Evidence that what is a problem?

Gays raising children

 

[maquiscat]

And you haven't presented any to support your claims. And kids adopted by a same sex couple are such a tiny minority that they really have no impact upon the statistics on all kids. Whereas children born to married mothers and fathers and children born to single mothers makes up ? 95% ? + of all kids.

You have the initial claim. You have yet to support yours.

 

[maquiscat]

Laws of 50 states disagree currently.

Yeah, and they disagreed on SSM and interracial marriage and women voting and many other things that they agree on now. Your point?

 

[Quag]

Is there a significant group of retired sisters looking to get married who are pushing for those laws to change? Note also how you dont mention that a retired brother and sister living together also cannot get married, and you probably never argued for them to be able to marry prior to this. Yet two old retired opposite sex friends, perhaps a widow and widower, could get married for those same benefits all along.

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Anyone who thinks marriage is only benefits has no clue what legal marriage is it also comes with responsibilities which can be greater than any benefits.
The entire line of argumentation is a canard

 

[maquiscat]

Anyone who thinks marriage is only benefits has no clue what legal marriage is it also comes with responsibilities which can be greater than any benefits.
The entire line of argumentation is a canard

Granted, but since none of those responsibilities include love, sex or children, there is no reason for such limitations.

 

[Quag]

Granted, but since none of those responsibilities include love, sex or children, there is no reason for such limitations.

Actually part of the responsibilities concern children (just not a responsibility to have them)
Rights and responsibilities of marriages in the United States - Wikipedia

Spousal income and assets are counted in determining need in many forms of government assistance, including:
Veteran's medical and home care benefits
Housing assistance
Housing loans for veterans
Child's education loans
Educational loan repayment schedule
Agricultural price supports and loans
Eligibility for federal matching campaign funds
Ineligible for National Affordable Housing program if spouse ever purchased a home:
Subject to conflict-of-interest rules for many government and government-related jobs
Ineligible to receive various survivor benefits upon remarriage
Providing financial support for raising children born of the marriage

 

[roguenuke]

Granted, but since none of those responsibilities include love, sex or children, there is no reason for such limitations.

But some include things already granted to sisters, brothers, parents, children.

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[roguenuke]

And you haven't presented any to support your claims. And kids adopted by a same sex couple are such a tiny minority that they really have no impact upon the statistics on all kids. Whereas children born to married mothers and fathers and children born to single mothers makes up ? 95% ? + of all kids.

There is more of a comparison between same sex couples raising children with opposite sex couples raising children than either with single parents. The dynamics are different. Two people are going to bring more to the table as far as resources, time, money, likely experiences than one. That doesnt mean those two will automatically do a better job than all single parents, nor other two parent households.

You are the one who continues to bring up these particular claims in regards to this subject but have yet to show why they are in any way important.
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[dixon01767]

Is there a significant group of retired sisters looking to get married who are pushing for those laws to change? Note also how you dont mention that a retired brother and sister living together also cannot get married, and you probably never argued for them to be able to marry prior to this. Yet two old retired opposite sex friends, perhaps a widow and widower, could get married for those same benefits all along.

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I have frequently advocated that they should extend marriage to any two consenting adults. That this special treatment for gays has no constitutional justification.

 

[dixon01767]

There is more of a comparison between same sex couples raising children with opposite sex couples raising children than either with single parents. The dynamics are different. Two people are going to bring more to the table as far as resources, time, money, likely experiences than one. That doesnt mean those two will automatically do a better job than all single parents, nor other two parent households.

Ill wait here while you scurry about seeking refuge in that strawman. I suspect the advantage arises not because biological parents are of the opposite sex and instead the advantage arises from the fact that they are the biological parents. Likely some kind of evolutionary adaptation.

 

[vegas giants]

I have frequently advocated that they should extend marriage to any two consenting adults. That this special treatment for gays has no constitutional justification.

And the special treatment for heterosexuals then is also unconstitutional.



This is your argument

 

[maquiscat]

Actually part of the responsibilities concern children (just not a responsibility to have them)
Rights and responsibilities of marriages in the United States - Wikipedia

I did not deny that there are responsibilities for children within a legal marriage, should such come about, regardless of the means. Even if we were to look at a sibling legal marriage, they could adopt children and thus those legal responsibilities. would go into effect. But the fact remains that these responsibilities ONLY matter if children become part of the legal family unit of the married couple. Thus there still is not a legitimate reason for the limitation.

 

[maquiscat]

But some include things already granted to sisters, brothers, parents, children.

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I am assuming that you mean some rights and responsibilities are already granted. However others are not. And even with the ones that can be granted by other legal routes, legal marriage is the shorter and less expensive route, so why should they limited in the legal institution?

 

[dixon01767]

You are saying all marriage laws are discriminatory.


All of them



Long before gays got that right

Of course. Discrimination between the married and unmarried is always discrimination. Justified in my opinion to improve the wellbeing of children. Not justified to help gays feel better about their homosexuality.

 

[maquiscat]

I have frequently advocated that they should extend marriage to any two consenting adults. That this special treatment for gays has no constitutional justification.

You rather have it backwards. If this is special treatment for gays, then they now have special treatment alongside heterosexual non related couples.

 

[maquiscat]

Ill wait here while you scurry about seeking refuge in that strawman. I suspect the advantage arises not because biological parents are of the opposite sex and instead the advantage arises from the fact that they are the biological parents. Likely some kind of evolutionary adaptation.

That still is not a reason to worry about same sex couple in the raising of children, especially since we already allow step families, adopted families, and half siblings within families. Unless there is an equal show to minimize these conditions as well as same sex couples raising children, then the raising of children is the strawman to the argument of allowing homosexuality and bisexuality to be normalized.