[W:3596] Arguments Against Same-Sex Marriage

[AGENT J]

Think it through.

theres nothing to think through, your claim was and is factually wrong. Disagree? prove otherwise, you cant.

 

[AGENT J]

I don't know how to make this any simpler: race and behavior are not the same thing and I defy any one of you to prove they are. Oh, I know I'll hear all the standard talking points but talking points aren't proof.

???? This makes no sense at all

who said race and behavior were the same thing . . .quote them saying that. . . we'll wait, thanks!

 

[kitsune]

Oh I see. Then I missed it.

Anyway, not being a legal expert, I can't say for sure how "marriage" and "civil union" are different but let's say you are right. In that case, we can simply just amend the laws so that civil unions will now confer the same legal rights and protections as marriage.

Marriage is a civil union already, isn't it? You have to go down to the courthouse and obtain a license from the civil authorities. Once you've got that, the state doesn't care whether it is a judge who signs off on it or a member of the clergy acting as an agent of the state who says the magic words. But either way you are not going to get far without that civil sanction in the form of a license. Why reinvent the wheel?

 

[maquiscat]

My point is not that his definition is the right one. Rather, I am saying that he did not force his beliefs on anybody. Refusing to go along with someone else' definition of a word is not 'forcing beliefs on them".

Then us refusing to go along with his definition, and indeed the legal system not going along with his definition, is not forcing beliefs on him.



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[Masterhawk]

The strongest argument that I've heard against allowing homosexual activity (not exactly gay marriage but similar) is that gays are at a high risk of transmitting HIV. The problem with this is that prohibition doesn't necessarily guarantee that the thing being banned won't happen. It may actually make things worse because you would have little indication that someone was gay before getting an std. Another problem is that while gay men are at a higher risk of transmitting HIV than straight people, the same is not true of lesbians. In fact, they are at a lower risk of transmitting it than straight women.

 

[it's just me]

It is not invalid simply because you don't like it. You have done nothing that I have noticed to invalidate it other than try to call an orientation, behavior.

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It's invalid because it's illogical. A behavior is not a race. This is not rocket science.

 

[it's just me]

???? This makes no sense at all

who said race and behavior were the same thing . . .quote them saying that. . . we'll wait, thanks!

Lursa did. Try to keep up.

 

[it's just me]

Very relevant. Do unto others....

So if you would try to enforce your beliefs on others, expect them to force theirs on you.

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Which is what you are doing which you somehow think is all right.

 

[CLAX1911]

It's invalid because it's illogical. A behavior is not a race. This is not rocket science.

Nobody is saying a behavior is a race except for you. So quit arguing with yourself and get on topic.

 

[it's just me]

Why wont you answer the simple question of how the marriages of gay people differ from those of straight people?

It seems pretty straightforward and you claim to know. If you posted it previously, I'm happy to view the post if you give me the #.

I'm not pretending...I have no idea. The sexes of both in the marriage are the same...that doesnt change the substance of marriage in the least, anymore than a difference in race did.

So please...what's your answer?

Quit moving the goal posts. You have yet to explain how being black or female is the same as being gay.

But if you insist, it is well known that the best environment for rIsing kids is monogamous marriage between a man and a woman. This is well known although I'm sure you will deny it.

 

[it's just me]

Nobody is saying a behavior is a race except for you. So quit arguing with yourself and get on topic.

Lursa is and has. Pay attention.

 

[CLAX1911]

Lursa is and has. Pay attention.

No she's not you are.

 

[it's just me]

No she's not you are.

That's what they said to the women suffragettes and the blacks during the civil rights movement. Heaven forbid you demonstrate and demand your civil rights!! If we had waiting until "the South" was ready there would still be Jim Crow laws in place.

If gays are deserving of equality, they shouldnt have to wait even longer....esp. when it has zero affect on people like you. All you are claiming is "I'm uncomfortable with this!" Adaptability is a valued trait in humans...perhaps you/they should try it.

I never did that. Gay marriage is no different than straight marriage, they're the same things. Please tell me how they're different? People tried to say that different races marrying was 'not marriage' too...and that was BS too.

But feel free to tell me how those marriages...straight, gay, interracial....are different from each other in the day to day lives of those couples?

Apples and oranges. She's proceeding from a false assumption comparing racism to the debate over what marriage is and isn't. Let's get this straight: I don't care what you do, but for me to agree to your definition of "marriage" based on this reasoning is a bridge too far. Again, it's a false equivalence and it is not logical.

Number two, Lursa asked me what the difference between the so-called "gay marriage" and a heterosexual marriage is. I have already pointed out that the best environment for raising kids is a monogamous relationship between a man and a woman. This is well known, although I am sure someone will come up with some bogus "study" not based on history but politics to make the other side of the debate.

So make your case but don't pretend you didn't read what she wrote.

 

[CLAX1911]

Apples and oranges. She's proceeding from a false assumption comparing racism to the debate over what marriage is and isn't.

you keep saying that but they're comparable. Everybody sees it but the willfully blind.

Let's get this straight: I don't care what you do,

then why do you care so much if I call my partnership in marriage?

but for me to agree to your definition of "marriage" based on this reasoning is a bridge too far.

nobody cares what you think or what your stupid religion says. It's a whole big freshly laid steaming pile of your opinion. and if you don't want to get chastised or excoriated on a public forum because of your wacko opinions keep them to your damn self. Or take your lumps like a man.

Again, it's a false equivalence and it is not logical.

you can say this a million more times and it won't make it any more correct than it is now. it is not a false equivalence it is not an equivalence at all it is it comparison. Those two words have different meanings you should be clued in by the different spelling and pronunciation, that's how words work.

Number two, Lursa asked me what the difference between the so-called "gay marriage" and a heterosexual marriage is. I have already pointed out that the best environment for raising kids is a monogamous relationship between a man and a woman. This is well known, although I am sure someone will come up with some bogus "study" not based on history but politics to make the other side of the debate.

you know I find it amazing that on science that you don't agree with exists it is based on politics. you know who else says that, the flat Earth society. Congratulations on being a conspiracy theorist you're deducted points because yours is stupid.

So make your case but don't pretend you didn't read what she wrote.

Okay well I've made my points but just to recap first nobody but you is comparing Behavior to race.

Second your opinion matters very little to anybody.

Third and matters even less because you would deny science if it went against what you believe.

Fourth the conspiracy of gays to steal marriage from you is absurd.

 

[it's just me]

you keep saying that but they're comparable. Everybody sees it but the willfully blind.

then why do you care so much if I call my partnership in marriage?

nobody cares what you think or what your stupid religion says. It's a whole big freshly laid steaming pile of your opinion. and if you don't want to get chastised or excoriated on a public forum because of your wacko opinions keep them to your damn self. Or take your lumps like a man.


you can say this a million more times and it won't make it any more correct than it is now. it is not a false equivalence it is not an equivalence at all it is it comparison. Those two words have different meanings you should be clued in by the different spelling and pronunciation, that's how words work.

you know I find it amazing that on science that you don't agree with exists it is based on politics. you know who else says that, the flat Earth society. Congratulations on being a conspiracy theorist you're deducted points because yours is stupid.


Okay well I've made my points but just to recap first nobody but you is comparing Behavior to race.

Second your opinion matters very little to anybody.

Third and matters even less because you would deny science if it went against what you believe.

Fourth the conspiracy of gays to steal marriage from you is absurd.

I didn't think it was possible to be less coherent than one of the other posters, but you've done it.

 

[it's just me]

you keep saying that but they're comparable. Everybody sees it but the willfully blind.

then why do you care so much if I call my partnership in marriage?

nobody cares what you think or what your stupid religion says. It's a whole big freshly laid steaming pile of your opinion. and if you don't want to get chastised or excoriated on a public forum because of your wacko opinions keep them to your damn self. Or take your lumps like a man.


you can say this a million more times and it won't make it any more correct than it is now. it is not a false equivalence it is not an equivalence at all it is it comparison. Those two words have different meanings you should be clued in by the different spelling and pronunciation, that's how words work.

you know I find it amazing that on science that you don't agree with exists it is based on politics. you know who else says that, the flat Earth society. Congratulations on being a conspiracy theorist you're deducted points because yours is stupid.


Okay well I've made my points but just to recap first nobody but you is comparing Behavior to race.

Second your opinion matters very little to anybody.

Third and matters even less because you would deny science if it went against what you believe.

Fourth the conspiracy of gays to steal marriage from you is absurd.

I didn't think it was possible to be less coherent than one of the other posters, but you've done it.

 

[CLAX1911]

I didn't think it was possible to be less coherent than one of the other posters, but you've done it.

You're not saving any face by pretending you can't read.

 

[it's just me]

You're not saving any face by pretending you can't read.

Oh, please, save your childish guilt tripping for someone who cares. There is nothing wrong with my face, I know who I am, and I don't have any trouble sleeping. I also know that my arguments are sound in spite of your outburst.

 

[CLAX1911]

Oh, please, save your childish guilt tripping for someone who cares.

Strong words for someone who backed away from an argument with his tail between his legs.

There is nothing wrong with my face, I know who I am, and I don't have any trouble sleeping. I also know that my arguments are sound in spite of your outburst.

You didn't present an argument. You just asserted things that you failed to support.

So who are you trying to convince?

 

[it's just me]

Strong words for someone who backed away from an argument with his tail between his legs.

You didn't present an argument. You just asserted things that you failed to support.

So who are you trying to convince?

I didn't back away from anything, I turned my back on a temper tantrum. Unless and until you address my points with something besides "neener, neener, neener" we've got nothing to talk about. To keep you from projecting any more, show me that a monogamous relationship between a man and a woman is not the best environment for child raising.

Also, here's the definition of a false equivalence:

False equivalence - Wikipedia

Show me how Lursas claims are not false equivalents.

 

[Logician Man]

I didn't back away from anything, I turned my back on a temper tantrum. Unless and until you address my points with something besides "neener, neener, neener" we've got nothing to talk about. To keep you from projecting any more, show me that a monogamous relationship between a man and a woman is not the best environment for child raising.

Also, here's the definition of a false equivalence:

False equivalence - Wikipedia

Show me how Lursas claims are not false equivalents.

Here's one instance. My gay neighbors adopted and raised two very successful children, one who became a law enforcement officer, the other who is a succsessful prosecutor. Meanwhile, just last week, a man and a woman who who were in a monogamous marraige were sentenced to life in prison for torturing and starving their 13 children, two of which were found chained to their filthy beds like dying dogs.

 

[Obscurity]

And your religion has not right to determine my religion's beliefs.

Your religion is irrelevant when it comes to the rights of others.

 

[maquiscat]

The strongest argument that I've heard against allowing homosexual activity (not exactly gay marriage but similar) is that gays are at a high risk of transmitting HIV. The problem with this is that prohibition doesn't necessarily guarantee that the thing being banned won't happen. It may actually make things worse because you would have little indication that someone was gay before getting an std. Another problem is that while gay men are at a higher risk of transmitting HIV than straight people, the same is not true of lesbians. In fact, they are at a lower risk of transmitting it than straight women.

Actually that seems to be more a US thing than overall true. World wide AIDS is being transmitted faster through straight sex than through gay sex. The true vector is risky behavior. There are plenty of gays who are at the same minimal risk as most of us because they use protection regularly, and/or are monogamous in their relationships.

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[Obscurity]

You dont care as long as the gays get their government licensing and regulation also.

Your religion does not get to exert its will over others.

"The gays." What is this, a card game?

 

[maquiscat]

It's invalid because it's illogical. A behavior is not a race. This is not rocket science.

And behavior is also not orientation. Also not rocket science. Orientation and race are inherent traits though and that is where the comparison is valid.

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