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[W:305]Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Let me try to answer this. I was raped my first year of college. I did something stupid and allowed myself to hang out with some drunk dudes. I do not remember the exact date. I do not remember the exact location, just that it was in someone’s dorm room. I don’t even remember the guy’s last name, just his first name and who he was. I don’t even remember exactly who else was there, I can name one person confidently. I wanted to forget about the incident so badly and put it out of my thoughts. Subconsciously I let myself forget about all of those surrounding details. I remember the act of him raping me though, and I still have nightmares of it. This was about 13 years ago. So imagine 30 + years I can imagine her memory of the exact details is even more fuzzy. But I’m sure she remembers the exact man who TRIED to rape her (attempted rape is still a crime). So while many people don’t believe her and can’t even fathom that this happened to her, I have a similar story as her, and I don’t remember many of the details. So yes it’s possible she is telling the truth and she really was sexually assaulted.


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That is the bravest post I've seen. You should be proud, well done.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

..............a poor mountaineer barley kept her family fed. Then one day while shooting at some food, up from the ground come a bubbling up crude..........

Yeah, I bet you were one of those boys who haarassed girls at school and thought you were so cool, you weren't.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Let me try to answer this. I was raped my first year of college. I did something stupid and allowed myself to hang out with some drunk dudes. I do not remember the exact date. I do not remember the exact location, just that it was in someone’s dorm room. I don’t even remember the guy’s last name, just his first name and who he was. I don’t even remember exactly who else was there, I can name one person confidently. I wanted to forget about the incident so badly and put it out of my thoughts. Subconsciously I let myself forget about all of those surrounding details. I remember the act of him raping me though, and I still have nightmares of it. This was about 13 years ago. So imagine 30 + years I can imagine her memory of the exact details is even more fuzzy. But I’m sure she remembers the exact man who TRIED to rape her (attempted rape is still a crime). So while many people don’t believe her and can’t even fathom that this happened to her, I have a similar story as her, and I don’t remember many of the details. So yes it’s possible she is telling the truth and she really was sexually assaulted.


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Question? If the guy who raped you was running for some national well known position or was getting promoted as CEO or something and was making big news in national media reports. Do you think you could have remembered his last name? Because I think that's exactly what happened with Dr. Ford. Maybe she saw his picture as well and put two and two together.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Yeah, I bet you were one of those boys who haarassed girls at school and thought you were so cool, you weren't.

Five highscool children got together and raided dads liquor cabinet. The two girls had no idea sex would be expected? Srsly?
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Oh. Here’s an even better one. She went to Mike Tyson’s hotel suite at 10:30pm and wanted to read bible verses with him.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

A plausible reason is that the additional witnesses saw Dr. Ford receiving death threats from the Trump base, and did not want to have the same thing happen to themselves and their families, so they lied to the media.

There are undoubtedly a number of other plausible reasons, but taking the chance of putting a lying rapist on the SC in the name of political expediency is disgusting behavior by my moral compass.

The real kick in the guts, he is the 5th vote to overturn Roe v Wade, to stop a woman that was raped from having a abortion -- from a man changed with attempted rape.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Question? If the guy who raped you was running for some national well known position or was getting promoted as CEO or something and was making big news in national media reports. Do you think you could have remembered his last name? Because I think that's exactly what happened with Dr. Ford. Maybe she saw his picture as well and put two and two together.

Yes I believe I could. I remember his face like it was yesterday. I don’t think I would have the courage that she is displaying to come forward, though. I don’t know what psycho would go through such great lengths to jeopardize their entire life for such a lie. The theory that this is all a big lie to keep him off the SC just makes no sense to me. I’m probably biased because I have gone through the same thing but I believe her. She is being judged and chastised and we haven’t heard her testify yet. Is there a chance she could be lying? Of course, always a chance. To see her being treated in such a way BEFORE we’ve heard her account is so disgusting to me. If she gets up there and follows through with testimony, and if any of it sounds the least bit credible, he should be disqualified. I would never in a million years have the courage to do that, especially since I forget so many details about that night.


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Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

That is the bravest post I've seen. You should be proud, well done.

Thanks. I didn’t tell anyone for a long, long time. And I know it’s more common than most of us want to admit. Which is a darn shame.


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Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

There is something particularly odious about someone who never had so much as the slightest inclination to believe someone who accused a politician on the right creating a thread challenging people to explain why they "should" believe the accusation, as if to make a show of being fair and balanced. And as always, the OP pre-emptively accuses everyone who doesn't find suspicious what the OP says is suspicious "partisan".

:roll:

Well, here is the problem that I have been seeing vis-a-vis this accusation: Most people have rushed to their respective corners either solidly believing the truth of Dr. Ford's allegations, or solidly believing Judge Kavanaugh's denials before any evidence has actually been presented beyond the accusation. What few people have actually done, especially on the left, is articulate a principle by which accusations of sexual impropriety should be believed (or should NOT be believed). Which indicates to me that very few people actually care about sexual assault upon women in a general sense, because by articulating a clear principle, one is then forced to be held to that principle in the future and when it may be their political ox may be gored, lest they be shown to be an intellectually dishonest hypocrite.

I think there are people who genuinely believe Dr. Ford, and do so for completely principled non-partisan reasons, and would believe women under similar circumstances even if it is against people on their political side of the aisle. I think there are people who genuinely believe in Judge Kavanaugh's innocence for completely principled and apolitical non-partisan reasons, and would believe men similarly accused under similar circumstances even if they were not on the same political side of the aisle.

What I am trying to suss out is this: What is the operating principle by which people believe or disbelieve people's accusations of sexual assault? Because in the present case, the majority of people believe or disbelieve Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh on the basis that there is (D) next to the accusers' name and an (R) next to the accused's name. That is not a proper standard by which sexual assault allegations should be believed or disbelieved. That is mere expediency in my opinion.

PS: some people need to remind themselves that accusations ARE evidence if the victim is making that accusation under oath. If this woman testifies, the "no evidence" line will disappear.

And the people pretending to care about that? Well, let's just say I don't recall any threads ever being created by them for the purpose of exploring the thousands and thousands of sexual assault and other such cases resolved by victim testimony.


PSS: This isn't a criminal trial, so invoking proof beyond a reasonable doubt is disingenuous. Nevermind that even in a criminal trial, a single eyewitness testimony is sufficient to convict.

Agreed. Once she testifies as to what happens under oath, that will be sufficient testamentary evidence that we can and should all consider.
 
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Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Well? Why should I? She has provided absolutely no proof of her allegations. She's mentioned two other people that were there and both have denied it happened. She says she can't remember the house that it happened at. She can't remember when it happened. No one else has come out against Kavanaugh on this having actually happened or a separate instance of it happening. One woman says that she "heard a rumor" but has denied knowing if anything actually happened. She has repeatedly tried to stall the testimony hearing making ridiculous demands such as not allowing Kavanaugh in the room and demanding that he testify first. Demands which obviously are intended to simply push the date of the hearing back farther and farther.

And then there is the suspicious nature of when and how this was released. Her history was scrubbed. She took a lie detector test in July. Wrote and sent Feinstein a letter in July. Hired lawyers at the beginning of August. Yet...doesn't come out until AFTER the confirmation hearings are done and over with THIS month. Surely even the most partisan of partisans could admit that such looks suspicious.

So...why should I believe Ms. Ford?

You shouldn't. Her already highly dubious claims (who "forgets" WHEN and WHERE they were "sexually assaulted" ? ), becomes moreso with each and every "witness" she names, ALL OF WHOM DENY HER CLAIMS....
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Because if you don't then Kavanaugh will be appointed to the supreme court and all our rights will be taken away as we transition to a medieval style theocracy.

Or so I've been told.


Yep...Kavanaugh seeks to re-institute Fiefdoms as well...
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

The real kick in the guts, he is the 5th vote to overturn Roe v Wade, to stop a woman that was raped from having a abortion -- from a man changed with attempted rape.

*a woman that was raped*

Stop making things up.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

What few people have actually done, especially on the left, is articulate a principle by which accusations of sexual impropriety should be believed (or should NOT be believed).

What about my stance, which is neither belief or unbelief.: There is enough information to indicate an investigation is warranted. This seems the most reasonable given what we do know.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

You shouldn't. Her already highly dubious claims (who "forgets" WHEN and WHERE they were "sexually assaulted" ? ), becomes moreso with each and every "witness" she names, ALL OF WHOM DENY HER CLAIMS....

Perhaps they do not want their families or themselves be subjected to the death threats Trump supporters are currently sending Dr. Ford? Doesn't that sound reasonable? There are definitely some psychos in that group according to the research published in prestigious peer reviewed journals:

Research Finds That Racism, Sexism, and Status Fears Drove Trump Voters
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

What about my stance, which is neither belief or unbelief.: There is enough information to indicate an investigation is warranted. This seems the most reasonable given what we do know.

I had not read everything you had wrote, JustHanging, but that is a perfectly reasonable operating principle. Certainly, an investigation by the appropriate authority is warranted. I do not know if this falls under a Federal crime which can be investigated by the FBI, but it apparently does under Maryland Law if they wish to open up an investigation for attempted rape (unless they cannot prosecute an adult for a crime that was perpetrated while he was a juvenile).
 
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Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Also, I find it difficult to believe that a successful professional woman would risk the destruction of not only her own reputation, but the safety of her family, becoming a scorned footnote forever etched in political history, if she did not completely, utterly believe that her recollection of what happened to her and the emotional fear/trauma she suffered was not categorically and completely real.

Well, here is my thought on that: I would argue that Dr. Ford risks very little. She is apparently a political liberal/progressive who teaches at a University and lives in an area located in area which is the most politically left-wing enclave (the California Bay Area) in the most politically left-wing state in the Union. She lives and teaches amongst political friends and allies. It is not as if she lives and teaches in some deeply-conservative area in a deeply-conservative state where her social and professional life in that area will be forever ruined by her coming forward.

Unless she flat out admits that she made her whole story up while testifying, or it is proven by additional clear and convincing evidence that she was lying about the events, she will continue to be believed and will almost without a doubt be lauded as a hero by the political left. But even if a hundred holes are poked through her story and the Senate confirms Kavanaugh, I think it is unlikely that her reputation will be very much sullied. After all, Anita Hill is still lauded as a hero by the left and her accusations against Judge Clarence Thomas continue to be believed along partisan lines in spite of her many testimony's inconsistencies and outright false testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I mean, perhaps I am mistaken, but what precisely does she risk here? The hatred, scorn and obloquy of people who are already her political opponents and who have no power over her? If she is believed (and if, indeed, what she is saying is true) she will be a hero who managed to take down an attempted-rapist from sitting on the Supreme Court. If she is not believed, she will be a heroic martyr who spoke truth to power but the patriarchal establishment refused to believe her and instead rallied to defend their own. Either way, I imagine offers for documentary and book deals will be waiting in the future for her.
 
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Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

I'm hoping that she does. Otherwise the consequences of her not proving her case will not be good for Democrats.

Case, what case?

What is it she has to prove?

This is so wrong....

She is there to tell her story, period. She must feel that if others knew what she knew of this man's past actions they would not want him on the court.

I think she is mistaken. I think they could care less if he tried to rape her or not. I think she made a mistake in coming forward as D.C. simply does not care. What she says is either useful or not useful politically. You would think a doctor would know better than to think knowing the real Kavanaugh would change an elected official vote.

As to this in any way being bad for the Dem's... it can only seem that way to a Trumpet who has blind allegiance to Trump. No Dem or swing voter will see this as anything but more white men ignoring women.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Well? Why should I? She has provided absolutely no proof of her allegations. She's mentioned two other people that were there and both have denied it happened. She says she can't remember the house that it happened at. She can't remember when it happened. No one else has come out against Kavanaugh on this having actually happened or a separate instance of it happening. One woman says that she "heard a rumor" but has denied knowing if anything actually happened. She has repeatedly tried to stall the testimony hearing making ridiculous demands such as not allowing Kavanaugh in the room and demanding that he testify first. Demands which obviously are intended to simply push the date of the hearing back farther and farther.

And then there is the suspicious nature of when and how this was released. Her history was scrubbed. She took a lie detector test in July. Wrote and sent Feinstein a letter in July. Hired lawyers at the beginning of August. Yet...doesn't come out until AFTER the confirmation hearings are done and over with THIS month. Surely even the most partisan of partisans could admit that such looks suspicious.

So...why should I believe Ms. Ford?

She is "suspicious" if seen through partisan Trumpet glasses.

To someone not tethered to the right or the left she seems, as of now, to be concerned about someone who did to her what she believes he did to be on the top court.

Nothing more or less. Your post is far to conspiracy theory oriented to be reasonable. Are the Dem's using this politically? Yep. That she has all this motives... come on. From what we know, that is TRump logic.

Personally, I would not change my vote over it and I would not recommend to any republican senator that they change their vote over it.

But your take is shaped by want of outcome. It's obvious.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

*a woman that was raped*

Stop making things up.

They can't help it. They've sworn fealty to Alinsky and his "Rules for Radicals";)
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

What explanation is there for her having taking herself and her family into this maelstrom by making the story up other than that she's a screwball? None. If she comes across at the hearing as the credible person her friends say she is Kavanaugh may be confirmed but only the Trump crowd, and not all of them, will believe him.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

I had not read everything you had wrote, JustHanging, but that is a perfectly reasonable operating principle.

Thanks, that's been my stance since the beginning I think, although it might have taken me a couple of posts to figure it out.

Certainly, an investigation by the appropriate authority is warranted. I do not know if this falls under a Federal crime which can be investigated by the FBI, but it apparently does under Maryland Law if they wish to open up an investigation for attempted rape (unless they cannot prosecute an adult for a crime that was perpetrated while he was a juvenile).

IMO the important thing is to establish whether Kavanaugh lied or not, which is the immediate matter at hand. If he lied I think this would immediately disqualify him, as you can't have an SC judge, of all people, whose guiding principals are: "Lie until you're caught."
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Well, here is my thought on that: I would argue that Dr. Ford risks very little. She is apparently a political liberal/progressive who teaches at a University and lives in an area located in area which is the most politically left-wing enclave (the California Bay Area) in the most politically left-wing state in the Union. She lives and teaches amongst political friends and allies. It is not as if she lives and teaches in some deeply-conservative area in a deeply-conservative state where her social and professional life in that area will be forever ruined by her coming forward.

Unless she flat out admits that she made her whole story up while testifying, or it is proven by additional clear and convincing evidence that she was lying about the events, she will continue to be believed and will almost without a doubt be lauded as a hero by the political left. But even if a hundred holes are poked through her story and the Senate confirms Kavanaugh, I think it is unlikely that her reputation will be very much sullied. After all, Anita Hill is still lauded as a hero by the left and her accusations against Judge Clarence Thomas continue to be believed along partisan lines in spite of her many testimony's inconsistencies and outright false testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I mean, perhaps I am mistaken, but what precisely does she risk here? The hatred, scorn and obloquy of people who are already her political opponents and who have no power over her? If she is believed (and if, indeed, what she is saying is true) she will be a hero who managed to take down an attempted-rapist from sitting on the Supreme Court. If she is not believed, she will be a heroic martyr who spoke truth to power but the patriarchal establishment refused to believe her and instead rallied to defend their own. Either way, I imagine offers for documentary and book deals will be waiting in the future for her.

As long as the MSM controls the narrative, and the "resistance" is strong, Ford will become a leftist folk hero. If she's so inclined, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, she will have enormous opportunities. Book deals. Mini series. Movie option. Speaking tour. Special guest appearances with lucrative fees. A seat on CNN's panel for the foreseeable future.

Kavanaugh, if he doesn't get appointed, will be RUINED. His family, disgraced. Their lives will never be the same.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Why do you keep posting this garbage, after I have debunked it numerous times?

How does one debunk fact?

Just curious.

(Common sense alone supports the data, so what are you offering?)
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

How does one debunk fact?

Then you need to prove there are facts. The link merely shows their research findings. Surely you don't mean to tell me you consider everything the academia publish as gospel truth/facts?

Just curious.

(Common sense alone supports the data, so what are you offering?)
"Common sense" and you do not belong in the same sentence.

But lets put aside this immature exchange of insults (which you started), you really can't tell that those researchers are essentially saying they know for sure what motivate other people to do certain things?
 
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