[W:26] Roger Waters Address To The UN 2012

[CJ 2.0]

Just before this thread disappears into the ether I just wanted to clarify something with regards to a link used in post 8 I think it was. The link actually stated the opposite of what the poster who supplied it actually wanted it to say. Funny they didn't seem to notice and were maybe just banking on few actually checking it out properly

The link was to a Times of Israel article that quoted Waters lyrics from a song entitled " In The Flesh " that created a certain impressionism of the songs actual meaning/aim

The lines quoted sound pretty damming if you don't understand that the context is showing just how ugly and vicious bigotry is

from the link



The two following lines are

"There's one smoking a joint and that ones got spots and if I had my way I would have all of you shot"

The clip from the film shows the words being uttered by a Naziesque commandant character whilst people in the audience are being set upon by goons and dragged off to the delight of a frenzied and bigoted crowd attending an ugly bigoted rally

The message is clearly to show the ugliness of bigotry and the dangers it poses as you can see in the clip itself below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoPpw7DNzCY


So to try to smear Waters with it was a deliberate misrepresentation of the material.

Posterity deserves at least the truth here

Which is what? That he is one of the thought leaders of the western progressive movement who uses anti-racism to promote hatred of Jews? Like Jeremy Corbyn version 1.0?

Ok, well I guess that’s noted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoanDavis]

Musicians posing as experts. Always entertaining.

Yeah I think Kid Rock, Ted Nugent, Charlie Daniels and other musicians who support trump should keep their 'expert' opinions to themselves.

 

[JoanDavis]

So if you are a musician you cannot be knowledgeable about anything else.............point noted and dismissed for the nonsense it is

Taylor Swift, Willie Nelson, Bette Streep, Barbara Streisand and many others came out and expressed how they feel about trump and the **** kissing republicans and the trumpeteers responded maturely by burning their CDs, concert tickets and sending the artists death threats.

Ted Nugent publically says he wants to kill President Obama and the republicans screech 'free speech'.

Killing or assaulting people is NOT FREE SPEECH.

Peacefully Protesting against murder and assault IS FREE SPEECH.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

The pig is classic Floyd going all the way back to 1971.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI4-r8Vx8qM

It wouldn't be an authentic Floyd show without Rover.

No one would pay to see the limited Waters play bass, and he is a horrible out of tune singer. His value lies in his ability to write lyrics, and the very political Waters is worth every penny.

"The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, and everyday the paperboy brings more."

Lol "No one would pay to see the limited Waters play bass, and he is a horrible out of tune singer."' biased much? Meanwhile Waters really has no problem selling tickets to his shows.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Just before this thread disappears into the ether I just wanted to clarify something with regards to a link used in post 8 I think it was. The link actually stated the opposite of what the poster who supplied it actually wanted it to say. Funny they didn't seem to notice and were maybe just banking on few actually checking it out properly

The link was to a Times of Israel article that quoted Waters lyrics from a song entitled " In The Flesh " that created a certain impressionism of the songs actual meaning/aim

The lines quoted sound pretty damming if you don't understand that the context is showing just how ugly and vicious bigotry is

from the link



The two following lines are

"There's one smoking a joint and that ones got spots and if I had my way I would have all of you shot"

The clip from the film shows the words being uttered by a Naziesque commandant character whilst people in the audience are being set upon by goons and dragged off to the delight of a frenzied and bigoted crowd attending an ugly bigoted rally

The message is clearly to show the ugliness of bigotry and the dangers it poses as you can see in the clip itself below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoPpw7DNzCY


So to try to smear Waters with it was a deliberate misrepresentation of the material.

Posterity deserves at least the truth here

If you are going to be all truthful you might want to tell the truth first. The entire Nazi themed parts of The Wall actually represent how Roger Waters felt that they had lost contact with the crowd. There is more to it than just that but the message isnt exactly how you said.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yeah I think Kid Rock, Ted Nugent, Charlie Daniels and other musicians who support trump should keep their 'expert' opinions to themselves.

TRUMP CARD....

Normally played by the player with the weakest hand......

 

[oneworld2]

Which is what? That he is one of the thought leaders of the western progressive movement who uses anti-racism to promote hatred of Jews? Like Jeremy Corbyn version 1.0?

Ok, well I guess that’s noted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course in your world any sympathy for the plight of Palestinians or wishes to actively support them in their struggle for self determination is " Jew hatred ". Adding in that if any Jewish people themselves show these types of sentiments they too are accused of " Jew hatred " , as in hating their Jewish selves

Luckily I don't think many reasonable or thinking people will be duped by these attempted smears.

 

[oneworld2]

Taylor Swift, Willie Nelson, Bette Streep, Barbara Streisand and many others came out and expressed how they feel about trump and the **** kissing republicans and the trumpeteers responded maturely by burning their CDs, concert tickets and sending the artists death threats.

Ted Nugent publically says he wants to kill President Obama and the republicans screech 'free speech'.

Killing or assaulting people is NOT FREE SPEECH.

Peacefully Protesting against murder and assault IS FREE SPEECH.

I sought of had the thing about burning Cds concert ticket etc earlier in the thread when a poster here decried Waters for making political statements/politicizing in general his concerts. He claimed to be a fan so I don't really understand why they expected something like musical escapism free from political content. It would be like claiming to be a Michael Jackson fan and walking out of the concert in disgust because he included a great many slick dance routines :roll:

The earlier part of the thread was concerned with people claiming musicians , by definition of their being musicians , cannot be talented or extremely knowledgeable in other fields as I know you are aware of. Obviously a ridiculous and desperate claim and an attempt to discredit Waters himself just because he didn't doesn't agree with their view.

I wasn't aware of Nugents statements on Obama but I am not surprised to see them defended by many from the right wing. Their view is often something akin to if I agree with what the person is saying then they are okay to say it , if not then it should be banned. Some on the Left are also guilty of the same kind of idiocy too

The acid test for me is if you don't believe in free speech for those whose views you dislike or even detest then you don't really believe in it at all. I agree that threatening to kill people and/or assaulting them crosses waaay over the boundary of " free speech " and should be recognized to have done so by most sane people

To sort of get back on topic , Waters was criticized and smeared by the usual suspects here because he is a musician and thus " cannot be an expert " of the Israel/Palestine conflict. That is involvement was based on a " hatred of Jews " , standard smear and fully expected.

He was cast against the French president Macron wrt how valid , based on knowledge , their opinions were. Ludicrous anyway because Waters , as a private citizen with substantial wealth , and a long involvement in attending talks and conferences on the subject would have none of the restrictions based on their opinion that the head of state of a country would have. With the latter clearly having to pay attention to what comments he makes and how that effects the international/economic relations of the country he is heading. You try to explain that to these people and they just don't want to think about how valid a point that actually is. But you can only try

 

[oneworld2]

If you are going to be all truthful you might want to tell the truth first. The entire Nazi themed parts of The Wall actually represent how Roger Waters felt that they had lost contact with the crowd. There is more to it than just that but the message isnt exactly how you said.

There are many themes contained within The Wall and I didn't intend to give a complete synopsis for it in that post. I would have thought that much was at least obvious

I only wanted to concentrate on how the lines from In The Flesh were being used out of context by the Times of Israel article. An article , don't forget , that was put up here to show Waters as a " Jew hater " which was to clearly misrepresent the context of that song and the lyrics within it. So I think your comments about "truth " are completely off the mark

So is In the Flesh a song wishing to and containing lyrics aimed at promoting bigotry ? Like might have been the case for someone reading the selective quoting of the lyrics without the context who was unaware of The Wall itself ?

Answer those questions and you will see where my post aimed its focus and why. Actually being concerned with a dishonest portrayal which was it's sole intention

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

There are many themes contained within The Wall and I didn't intend to give a complete synopsis for it in that post. I would have thought that much was at least obvious

I only wanted to concentrate on how the lines from In The Flesh were being used out of context by the Times of Israel article. An article , don't forget , that was put up here to show Waters as a " Jew hater " which was to clearly misrepresent the context of that song and the lyrics within it. So I think your comments about "truth " are completely off the mark

So is In the Flesh a song wishing to and containing lyrics aimed at promoting bigotry ? Like might have been the case for someone reading the selective quoting of the lyrics without the context who was unaware of The Wall itself ?

Answer those questions and you will see where my post aimed its focus and why. Actually being concerned with a dishonest portrayal which was it's sole intention

The truth is that the nazi image is neither what the Times of Israel article said or a direct attack on fascism. We know that the behavior is bad and it is assumed that fascism bad. Indirectly, sure Roger Waters does make that connection. And certainly The Wall cannot be used to show any anti anything other than the recording industry. I agree with your aim, but you said "truth" and the truth is actually a bit different than what you portrayed. It does not change your argument much but the truth is the truth.

 

[oneworld2]

The truth is that the nazi image is neither what the Times of Israel article said or a direct attack on fascism. We know that the behavior is bad and it is assumed that fascism bad. Indirectly, sure Roger Waters does make that connection. And certainly The Wall cannot be used to show any anti anything other than the recording industry. I agree with your aim, but you said "truth" and the truth is actually a bit different than what you portrayed. It does not change your argument much but the truth is the truth.

The aim was to set the record straight that those lines from that song should not be taken out of context to try to paint Waters as either an antisemite or an anti black racist. Nor a homophobe , anti spotist or anti drug user

I did refer you to the fact that a poster here put that up as proof that Waters is a " Jew hater ". It's also interesting that you seem to have little or nothing to say about that but wish to split hairs about the themes contained in The Wall itself

That's a truth too and it makes me wonder about what it is that is important to you

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

The aim was to set the record straight that those lines from that song should not be taken out of context to try to paint Waters as either an antisemite or an anti black racist. Nor a homophobe , anti spotist or anti drug user

I did refer you to the fact that a poster here put that up as proof that Waters is a " Jew hater ". It's also interesting that you seem to have little or nothing to say about that but wish to split hairs about the themes contained in The Wall itself

That's a truth too and it makes me wonder about what it is that is important to you

I made my point clear from the beginning. You can call it splitting hairs if that pleases you, but while your heart was in the right place, you made an error. I considered not saying anything, given more thought I ended up posting to help you put to rest the mislaid accusations against Roger Waters. You were open to being criticized since The Wall was not written as anything against fascism (other than implied as an matter of fact common sense thing). My intent was to cut to the chase.

There was no need to turn an me though, and question what I feel is important. I mean I felt that it was necessary to protect Rogers Waters character, that should imply that I support the Russell Tribunal that Waters was talking about.

 

[oneworld2]

I made my point clear from the beginning. You can call it splitting hairs if that pleases you, but while your heart was in the right place, you made an error. I considered not saying anything, given more thought I ended up posting to help you put to rest the mislaid accusations against Roger Waters. You were open to being criticized since The Wall was not written as anything against fascism (other than implied as an matter of fact common sense thing). My intent was to cut to the chase.

There was no need to turn an me though, and question what I feel is important. I mean I felt that it was necessary to protect Rogers Waters character, that should imply that I support the Russell Tribunal that Waters was talking about.

I really don't see how anything you have posted here has done anything to " help you put to rest the mislaid accusations against Roger Waters " tbh

It seems you tossed and turned on whether to participate but only to focus on , imo , trivial differences regarding the content and themes contained in The Wall when the much much bigger picture was the unjust smear of Waters ( which I still fail to see how you helped put to rest ) and the content of his summarisation of the findings of the Russell Tribunal of which , up until this last post , you have made exactly no comments

I find it all a little bizarre tbh but I don't want to continue arguing with you over it. If you really meant to help me out here then I will thank you for it even if I never actually recognized it

Best wishes and no hard feelings

 

[Howard the Duck]

Lol "No one would pay to see the limited Waters play bass, and he is a horrible out of tune singer."' biased much? Meanwhile Waters really has no problem selling tickets to his shows.

I am biased.

I am a huge fan. I love Amused to Death. To me that was some of Jeff Beck's greatest work. The songs are dark but their beauty reveals itself over time. Animals was like that, too.

You pay to see him for the same reason you pay to see Dylan. If you are paying to see a great singer and player then you should pay to see someone like David Gilmour.

JMH professional opinion.