[W:183]Let's have a real discussion about abortion

[Scrabaholic]

Well that's bullshit, it's very uncommon to intentionally abort an equine...good lord! That's just dishonest.

It's fairly dangerous to the mare, since verifying pregnancy usually occurs later in gestation.

No, they can u/s her early in gestation. And it's very common to do a selective termination when the mare is carrying twins as usually one or both die if it isn't done.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Incorrect. Animal farming is the single biggest contributor to climate change there is.

This study is from over ten years ago and there have been many studies since then that have underscored it, but it was one of the first search terms that came up: Global Farm Animal Production and Climate Change

From the study, emphasis mine: "Although much evidence has been amassed on the negative impacts of animal agricultural production on environmental integrity, community sustainability, public health, and animal welfare, the global impacts of this sector have remained largely underestimated and underappreciated. In a recent review of the relevant data, Steinfeld et al. (2006) calculated the sector’s contributions to global greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and determined them to be so significant that—measured in carbon dioxide equivalent—the emissions from the animal agricultural sector surpass those of the transportation sector."

Here's a much more recent report that concludes that diets are the main determinant of greenhouse gasses: Published in Science Direct

Here's an article that cites a study published in The Journal of Ecological Society that estimates as much as 87% of greenhouse gasses are produced by animal agriculture. I left it in the article instead of linking to the direct study b/c I think you need to read some of the commentary and history of why this study was done, namely, that it has been common knowledge for some time that animal farming has been the chief culprit in greenhouse gasses, but that the extent of it has been vastly underestimated. https://thebeet.com/animal-agriculture-may-be-responsible-for-87-of-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

Good case for reducing the human population.

Not to mention, giving up animal products the easiest lifestyle choice to make to have the biggest impact on the environment. If you claim to be concerned about climate change and you are not a vegan, you are either very mis-informed (which you seem to be), or aren't really very concerned at all and are just virtue-signaling. There's a lot of that going around. People care hella about the environment until someone asks them to give something they like up for the cause. Then not so much.

Do you drive? have an air conditioner?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Are right-wingers just plain hypocrites regarding "government mandates"?

Of course they are. Another thread in this section is proof of that.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

it's very uncommon to intentionally abort an equine.

I listened to an audiobook earlier this year by a farm vet in Michigan. He never performs C-sections on laboring mares, aborting colts and foals instead if they can't come out vaginally.

I would never want this to happen to any human fetus for any reason. That looks stupid to me.

 

[Lursa]

No, they can u/s her early in gestation. And it's very common to do a selective termination when the mare is carrying twins as usually one or both die if it isn't done.

THose are often very ambigous...it's hard to verify pregnancy early in mares. The 2nd is the same as what I'm aware of.

 

[NWRatCon]

Actually, it is worth taking more time. The fact that the unborn are not persons is not simply based on the abortion rulings. The justices on the SC at the time of Roe v Wade all agreed that the unborn are not persons in the meaning of the 14th Amendment, i.e., even the two justices who dissented from the majority opinion agreed on this.

According to Ratcom, who is/was a lawyer, the word "person" is used in the Constitution 94 times, I think. None of the uses can be applied to the unborn.

The unborn appear to have some rights, e.g., of inheritance, but they are all contingent on being born alive.

Suppose an unmarried pregnant woman left the US and went to a country selling economic citizenship which allowed citizenship to come through in three months. She could, if money were no object, pay for citizenship, get it in three months, and go to the US embassy and renounce her US citizenship. When she gave birth, she could say that the father was unknown and her child would get the citizenship of that country.

All countries in this world recognize that birth is the point at which offspring have a right to citizenship.
The US never used any way of calculating age except starting from birth.

The unborn simply have no rights of their own, and it's a good thing, because they live as part of the woman's body until they are born.

Still a lawyer, for the record. I think you transposed. It's 49 references, but in all other respects, correct. "The US never used any way of calculating age except starting from birth." That includes inheritance, but I'm not going to go into the rule against perpetuities, except to note it starts with "a life in being".

Nice example showing the complexity of citizenship and pregnancy.