[W:171]FBI chief Wray refutes Barr, says no 'spying' on Trump campaign

[code1211]

You frame your question well. Or so it could appear.

The reason is that you already have the answer.

So kindly proceed to advise us. My invitation should not however be construed to imply acceptance of it. I suggest you and I could take it from there thx.

Since I posted about what Wray said and we seem to agree about what he said, I don't know where to take this unless we are simply going to congratulate each other.

 

[dixon01767]

I know Hillary paid for Steele Dossier which was harvested from Russian operatives and used against Trump...be honest...it's a complete Hoax. not reported in Mueller report..Why?

Because Russian interference wasnt his concern. He was only interested in material damaging to Trump. Those silly facebook ads were meaningless and didnt interfere with anything. The interference of the Russian Dossier continues today. Trump probably lost more votes over this silly Russian hoax than Hillary lost because of the facebook ads.

 

[code1211]

See the Mueller report, Volume I, pages 92 through 102.

Why not state the nugget you care to present? We know that George P was told that the Russians had Hillary's emails. The circumstance of that meeting seems a little contrived.

We also know that he repeated that information to somebody else apparently half way around the world. The circumstances of that meeting seem to also be a little contrived.

In BOTH of these meetings, the re is a "Nobody, Nothing", George P, sitting down to speak face to face with these "Somebody, Somethings".

We also know that the information he was given and that he repeated did not originate in the Trump Campaign and that he never submitted it to the Trump Campaign.

So, to capsulize, a nobody with no contacts to anything is selected to receive info and repeats it.

Does the name of the person that selected him and sent the giver of info to meet him appear in the pages that you cite?

Regardless of any of that, though, we are now asked to believe that these two tavern conversations caused an investigation involving the espionage agencies of multiple countries against the opposition party candidate in a US Presidential Campaign?

That is banana republic stuff.

 

[dixon01767]

It was not a "Counter Intelligence Operation," it was a counterintelligence INVESTIGATION. Words matter.

Spying is a word used to decribe a covert operation with the intention to damage the other party, be that a corporation, organization, nation, or individual. Barr was stupid to use that word for a completely legal and legitimate investigation.

?????? Their intent was clearly to damage Trump.


verb

verb: spy; 3rd person present: spies; past tense: spied; past participle: spied; gerund or present participle: spying
1. work for a government or other organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.

 

[dixon01767]

Why not state the nugget you care to present? We know that George P was told that the Russians had Hillary's emails. The circumstance of that meeting seems a little contrived.

We also know that he repeated that information to somebody else apparently half way around the world. The circumstances of that meeting seem to also be a little contrived.

In BOTH of these meetings, the re is a "Nobody, Nothing", George P, sitting down to speak face to face with these "Somebody, Somethings".

We also know that the information he was given and that he repeated did not originate in the Trump Campaign and that he never submitted it to the Trump Campaign.

So, to capsulize, a nobody with no contacts to anything is selected to receive info and repeats it.

Does the name of the person that selected him and sent the giver of info to meet him appear in the pages that you cite?

Regardless of any of that, though, we are now asked to believe that these two tavern conversations caused an investigation involving the espionage agencies of multiple countries against the opposition party candidate in a US Presidential Campaign?

That is banana republic stuff.

Speaking of being contrived. The Russian Lawyer from the Trump Tower meeting met with the founder of Fusion GPS the day before the meeting and the day after the meeting. And he pleads the 5th when asked.

 

[SLC]

No it doesn't.

No he didn't.

You're having a really bad day here. Why don't you go out the door and come back in again. Start over.

Its the Dems that are having a bad day and it is about to get worse. :lol:

 

[SLC]

Speaking of being contrived. The Russian Lawyer from the Trump Tower meeting met with the founder of Fusion GPS the day before the meeting and the day after the meeting. And he pleads the 5th when asked.

Yep it sounds like a setup.

 

[Idiometer]

:lol: And you have proof of this are did you just make that up? Link required. I'm sure they said here is a million dollars just find us something. :lol: If HRC didn't know how millions of her Campaign dollars were being spent she is even a bigger idiot than I already think she is.

I never said she didn't know, I said it was probable. She probably knew that Perkins Coie had Hired Fusion GPS, but it's very doubtful that the candidate dictated any specific instructions to Fusion GPS and it's doubtful she was aware of a detail like "by the way, we hired this retired British spy ..."

It's just a logical assumption. The CEO of a corporation wouldn't know all the details of how the IT manager built system security measures, would he (or she)? I'm not lying, I'm guessing based on logic. L O G I C ...

 

[code1211]

RTFR!

FFS, read the damned report! Until you do, you posts are coming from a place of ignorance. There is an entire section on Papadopolous, just as there is an entire section on Carter Page and many others.

The damning of the "damned report" is well justified.

I suppose since the outcomes show that the entire Mueller thing was a waste of time and money, the real damage is that we now know that the Democrat Party is as corrupt as we previously suspected.

We also know that Mueller and his thugs cost us a bunch of money and destroyed the lives of many for no other reason than political advantage.

The headline here is that the Democrat party abused the power they held in their attack on the opposition party in the effort to win the Presidency.

The fact that they lost the election and that their mischief is now exposed is evidence both of their incompetent idiocy and that there is a God who loves us.

 

[dixon01767]

Mifsud with Boris Johnson

He was in Washington DC in 2017 meeting with members of our State Department and congressmen

 

[Idiometer]

You'll need to link to the Dictionary definition that supports your understanding of this Word. Peeping Toms are spying, but their intent is most often to only spy.

English, please.

Covert is used correctly in your post which itself should not have happened as the Trump campaign should have been provided a Defensive Briefing. It was not. End of that line of tripe.

Was damage intended? Obviously, it was. As the truth is being revealed regarding the nature of the evidence and the motivation of the "inspectors", we see that the evidence is corrupt and the "investigators" are corrupt.

The Dirty Cops were creating, not discovering, evidence to deceive the Judges. The Judges may or may not have also been corrupt. At this point, we simply don't know.

My father worked with judges throughout his career. Judges are in general a particularly proud group of folks who dislike being lied to in their courts.

I'm confused (IF they are not also corrupt) that we have not yet heard from them.

No, damage was not intended. That's right wing hyperbole. Fact-finding is always the intent of any investigation.

Please link to proof that evidence was created and/or that there was corrupt intent.

And please note that your snarky description of my posts as tripe is rude, but I'm refraining from responding in kind.

 

[Idiometer]

Why not state the nugget you care to present? We know that George P was told that the Russians had Hillary's emails. The circumstance of that meeting seems a little contrived.

We also know that he repeated that information to somebody else apparently half way around the world. The circumstances of that meeting seem to also be a little contrived.

In BOTH of these meetings, the re is a "Nobody, Nothing", George P, sitting down to speak face to face with these "Somebody, Somethings".

We also know that the information he was given and that he repeated did not originate in the Trump Campaign and that he never submitted it to the Trump Campaign.

So, to capsulize, a nobody with no contacts to anything is selected to receive info and repeats it.

Does the name of the person that selected him and sent the giver of info to meet him appear in the pages that you cite?

Regardless of any of that, though, we are now asked to believe that these two tavern conversations caused an investigation involving the espionage agencies of multiple countries against the opposition party candidate in a US Presidential Campaign?

That is banana republic stuff.

It's ten pages. FFS, read the report for yourself, or if you have read it, go to those pages and read them again. I'm sick of doing righties' homework for them.

 

[code1211]

Spy, verb

Work for a government or other organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.
"he agreed to spy for the West"
• observe (someone) furtively.
"the couple were spied on by reporters"
• discern or make out, especially by careful observation.
"he could spy a figure in the distance"

Surveillance, noun
Close observation, especially of a suspected spy or criminal.
"he found himself put under surveillance by military intelligence"

Spying is a covert activity usually undertaken to find information on a corporation, a nation, an organization, or an individual, often to be used against them

Surveillance is an activity usually undrrtaken by law inforcement for the purpose of determing whether crimes have been committed.

The difference is subtle, but it is clear that to call a legal investigation "spying" is just simply stupid and wrong. Barr is playing up Trump's false narrative of being a victim.

So, then, what is your contention?

Were the people that were spying on Trump:

Not in the government?
Not operating secretly?
Not collecting information?
Did not consider Trump to be the "enemy"?
Did not consider Trump to be a competitor?

On every point, they obvious answer is that they did and they were it was.

If it walks like spying and talks like a spying, it's a spying. Especially when the spying being done is done by our spies.

C'mon, man! Why are you even running down this path of rationalization?

 

[Idiometer]

?????? Their intent was clearly to damage Trump.


verb

verb: spy; 3rd person present: spies; past tense: spied; past participle: spied; gerund or present participle: spying
1. work for a government or other organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.

Bull****. Where is the proof of that? Their intent was to find out if there was a conspiracy between Trump's people and Russians. It was a law enforcement investigation. Legal, legitimate, and with PLENTY of probable cause.

 

[code1211]

We know that Hillary, et al, didn't commit crimes. How do we know? Trump said he would prosecute her. Since he didn't, that's de facto evidence it was all hot air.

I watched my neighbor's daughter's friend back over my mail box. Nice girl. Horrible driver.

I replaced the mail box and the stand it is mounted on.

I did not prosecute her.

If a mail box falls in the neighborhood and nobody goes to jail, did it really happen?

 

[SLC]

I never said she didn't know, I said it was probable. She probably knew that Perkins Coie had Hired Fusion GPS, but it's very doubtful that the candidate dictated any specific instructions to Fusion GPS and it's doubtful she was aware of a detail like "by the way, we hired this retired British spy ..."

It's just a logical assumption. The CEO of a corporation wouldn't know all the details of how the IT manager built system security measures, would he (or she)? I'm not lying, I'm guessing based on logic. L O G I C ...

Its logical that HRC knew they were getting dirt from Russia. How is that any different from Don JR trying to get dirt from a Russian. Personally I think Steele got played and was given Russian disinformation from. Putin. The NYT thinks it’s possible also. If it is Russian disinformation it worked beyond Putin’s wildest dream.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Oh he is associated with them it remains to be seen exactly how deeply he is associated with him.

Huh. I've been to Italy. Guess I'm associated with them, too.

 

[code1211]

Good question.

Google is your friend.

Specifically....

Surveillance
The concept of surveillance entails keeping continuous and close watch on an individual or group. It's a common dynamic security measure. Also, surveillance largely has legal authority.

Now, modern surveillance systems combine a wide variety of functionalities. These might include video recording, position sensing, imaging, tracking, metal detection and reporting. Businesses, government agencies, and residential homes now make use of these systems.



Spying
Spying, on the other hand, deploys clandestine means to extract secret information. It is often without due authorization.

Spying is a common practice of unscrupulous individuals and institutions. However, secret government agencies often take to spying for national interest reasons. For instance, spies may be deployed to uncover the strategies of terrorist organizations in order to nail them. In addition, exposure of most spying activities often results in negative legal and political consequences.

Spying Vs. Surveillance
Surveillance and spying are often confused because both involve information gathering. Also, like security surveillance, spying could involve a combination of technology and intelligence.

However, the main differences lie within the intents. If the intents aren’t to gain undue advantages, then spying is out of the question. Also, the level of secrecy of both activities matters – this is why highly covert surveillance measures are taken [mistakenly] as spying.

What's The Difference Between Spying And Surveillance?



There's plenty here for everyone yet the discerning mind will recognize that the key factors are two: legality; intent. Keep in mind that the FISA court does not order surveillance, it rather approves or denies surveillance. Further, the FISA court deals in surveillance, not spying. So Barr saying the Trump campaign was spied on is a Barr Faced Falsehood.

Your post seems to support the idea that this was in fact spying.

If the intent was to damage Trump, then the acts undertaken were "spying".

The intent was obviously to damage Trump.

 

[code1211]

Again, sweetie, investigations take place to FIND crimes, not to confirm them. Strong suspicion is quite enough to start a legitimate investigation.

What was the strong suspicion?

 

[code1211]

PLEASE take your own advice! I don't mean to be rude, but you're one of the most fact-resistant users on this forum.

:tocktock2

When "facts" are actually lies, I resist them.

You should do so as well.

 

[code1211]

In the case of Trump, it was a criminal investigation, which was begun after Papadopoulis got drunk and told the Australian Ambassador that the Trump campaign was working with Russia to get dirt on Hillary. The Australian Ambassador immediately contacted the FBI, and the investigation began. The FISA warrants for this investigation were approved, issued, and extended 60 days later by a court judge.

George P did NOT get that information from the Trump Campaign.

Where did he get it?

In passing, George P also did NOT relay that information TO the Trump campaign because he thought it was outrageously stupid and very likely inaccurate.

WHO GAVE THAT INFORMATION TO GEORGE P?

Also in passing, George P was jailed for a few days because he said "March" in one questioning session and "April" in a different session providing the "Lying to the FBI" charge. Could have been a slip of the tongue or a lapse of memory.

Who knows?

There is literally NOTHING there in this.

 

[haymarket]

YOU can't do anything to correct or improve the acts of others.

YOU can only correct or improve the things you do yourself.

YOU have a lot of work to do.

Trumpkins do what you mention all the time.

 

[SLC]

No, damage was not intended. That's right wing hyperbole. Fact-finding is always the intent of any investigation.

Please link to proof that evidence was created and/or that there was corrupt intent.

And please note that your snarky description of my posts as tripe is rude, but I'm refraining from responding in kind.

If they didn’t have an “insurance policy” and didn’t want to harm Trump why the Hell didn’t they give Trump a DEFENSIVE briefing? You know so Trump could defend himself.

 

[SLC]

Bull****. Where is the proof of that? Their intent was to find out if there was a conspiracy between Trump's people and Russians. It was a law enforcement investigation. Legal, legitimate, and with PLENTY of probable cause.

I saw a guy who was over the FBI covert intel and now is retired. He said to use a spy/CI the predicate has to be high and he did not think the FBI met that level in this case.

 

[SLC]

Huh. I've been to Italy. Guess I'm associated with them, too.

Did you teach them at Link University in Rome too? :lol: