[W:165] Bernie supporters: If Bernie doesn't win the nomination....

[Dans La Lune]

That we disagree with cpwill most of the time is irrelevant here. He put you Sanders supporters on notice.

There's no way to slam Sanders on his criticism of Reagan's foreign policy without examining Reagan's foreign policy.

‘I Did My Best to Stop American Foreign Policy’: Bernie Sanders on the 1980s - The New York Times

Bernie Sanders Puts The New York Times to Shame - Truthdig

 

[American]

That is possible, but unlikely since POTUS is but one office on the ballot. The bigger possibility, IMHO, is that more "Bernie bots" would vote for Trump out of spite.

Anything is possible.

 

[Phys251]

There's no way to slam Sanders on his criticism of Reagan's foreign policy without examining Reagan's foreign policy.

You obviously didn't read what he had to say, so I will repeat it for you so that you may clearly see his words.

And you still haven't addressed your silly insinuation that just because he said it, it's probably wrong.

Also, your whataboutism of Reagan is noted.

Bernie Sanders literally honeymooned in the Soviet Union. He praised Cuban "Democracy", communist "provision" of goods and services, and claimed that criticisms of it's abuses were just right wing propaganda. He praised Castro and Daniel Ortega, but later said that it was okay, because he did it to criticize Reagan. As mayor, he made his city a sister-city of a Sandanista Government, and flew down to speak at the six year celebration of their revolution . "In the long run, I am certain that you will win,” Sanders wrote, “and that your heroic revolution against the Somoza dictatorship will be maintained and strengthened.” (The Sandinistas were ousted by Nicaragua’s voters in 1990). He also allied his town with the Soviet government in Yaroslavl, whom he praised for the cheapness of their housing and healthcare during a visit (he also met with the Mayor of Havana). He argued that Venezuelans under Chavez were more likely to achieve the American Dream than people in the United States, and sarcastically suggested that we - not Venezuela et. al., were the "Banana Republic".

There's a reason Maduro refers to Bernie as "Our Revolutionary Friend".

But really, more than Bernie's long history of fondness for the achievements of brutal socialist dictators, what I'm getting at is:

If he wins the nomination, Sanders’ old (and not so old) videos praising failed socialist experiments and tiptoeing around recent cruelties in Latin America will surely resurface, playing on a loop... This may be fearmongering, but Democrats dismiss its effectiveness at their own peril.​

​

These ads write themselves. Clip of Bernie praising Ortega, Castro, etc., followed by a message from a victim, followed by another clip of Bernie defending them on healthcare when asked to explain himself.

Remember the "Grab em by the *****" video? What made it so damaging, such a serious threat, was that it confirmed all the worst suspicions about the candidate from his own lips. If he gets the nomination, Bernie potentially faces multiple experiences like that, where his past statements and positions and actions are used to confirm people's worst suspicions of him.



Fella, if you think everyone who thinks Bernie is a bit nuts and has some major vulnerabilities on this issue is a Trump supporter, you're gonna find yourself in a dark, dark, world.

If you refuse to digest most of his right-as-rain post, then at least read the very last line. And when that venom arrives from the far right which will be much, much, much worse than ANY insult I could possibly muster against your Dear Leader, then don't you dare whine that you never saw it coming. :shrug:

 

[presluc]

After hearing more than one voter declare on national T.V that they would vote for anybody but Trump it gave me pause and a reason to do some research didn't have to look too far.eace

 

[Dans La Lune]

You obviously didn't read what he had to say, so I will repeat it for you so that you may clearly see his words.

And you still haven't addressed your silly insinuation that just because he said it, it's probably wrong.

Perhaps you're the one who didn't read cpwill's post. I refuted it with a link, easily:

Bernie Sanders Puts The New York Times to Shame - Truthdig

Also, your whataboutism of Reagan is noted.

I wasn't the one who brought up Reagan. It's right in cpwill's post.

By the way, who was right on foreign policy: Bernie Sanders or Ronald Reagan?

I dare you to answer it.

 

[Linc]

Does he need it with super delegate support and unlimited campaign cash? It's not like the black vote would go to Trump if Bloomberg was selected over Sanders by the DNC.

When do superdelegates vote?

 

[Linc]

They could stay home.

Do you mean as they did in 2016, in such congressional districts as Wisconsin—04?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But you can admit that it does sometimes happen, right?

Oh of course, it has always happened, to some extent.
I don't believe it has ever been a massive widespread phenomenon except when the actions of Congress inspired voters to exercise it...ON Congress.

So if anything, Trump's conduct of the last three and a half years may inspire down-ballot rejection of "the Party of Trump".
I am not even saying that Bernie wouldn't inspire a down-ballot backlash, but I cannot see it yet, particularly because there hasn't been a wave of endorsements from Congress yet.

So Phyzzie ole pal...you could wind up being spot on.
I may indeed have to eat my words.
If eight or ten Congressmen or Senators endorse Bernie and notice a giant backlash, then your theory has legs.
If they're not endorsing him, why would voters punish them if they hate Bernie?
They might even seek their reelection as a buffer on Bernie if he wins.

After all, if one is a moderate, and one views their own reps and senators as moderates, the best path would be to ensure they remain in office to guard against Bernie's positions that they view as a step too far.

 

[Linc]

There is one scenario that will positively lead to a Trump victory, perhaps even a Trump landslide. That would be Bloomberg being the nominee.
Bernie has been the 'pied piper' leading the entire group of candidates to the far left with most if not all of them following the dogma Bernie
championed in 2016. Seriously Beto & Gillibrand two godforsaken failures campaigned even to the left of Sanders.

Bernie's main thrust has been railing against billionaires with three of the having more wealth than the bottom 50% combined.
Approximately 65 million voters will be in the Democrats column come November and say 30% are solid Sander voters &
1/2 of them are Sander cultists that's 10 million who will stay away from the polls if the nomination is taken away from Bernie &
given to a multi billionaire like Bloomy. After all Sanders isn't even a democrat and many of his young supporters are not either
having no allegiance to that party only to Sanders.

If in the first ballot Bernie has the most delegates but not enough to outright win the nomination & superdelagates who will
vote on the 2nd ballot giving the nomination to Bloomberg or even Buttigieg or Mrs. Clinton that would be the worst possible
scenario for the Democrats.

Check the odds for Sherrod Brown coming out of a contested convention as time goes on.

As for you saying Bloomberg would give trump a landslide, that tells me you’re afraid of Bloomberg.

Bloomberg is second behind Sen. Brown as the candidate who can flip the 100 electoral votes that trump flipped, as well as flipping AZ and NC.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You obviously didn't read what he had to say, so I will repeat it for you so that you may clearly see his words.

And you still haven't addressed your silly insinuation that just because he said it, it's probably wrong.

Also, your whataboutism of Reagan is noted.



If you refuse to digest most of his right-as-rain post, then at least read the very last line. And when that venom arrives from the far right which will be much, much, much worse than ANY insult I could possibly muster against your Dear Leader, then don't you dare whine that you never saw it coming. :shrug:

Sorry but in the end it still boils down to "Somoza good, Ortega bad".
Defend Somoza.

 

[American]

Do you mean as they did in 2016, in such congressional districts as Wisconsin—04?

Maybe.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Check the odds for Sherrod Brown coming out of a contested convention as time goes on.

As for you saying Bloomberg would give trump a landslide, that tells me you’re afraid of Bloomberg.

Bloomberg is second behind Sen. Brown as the candidate who can flip the 100 electoral votes that trump flipped, as well as flipping AZ and NC.

As a check against your theory (the one that sounds a lot like: all Bernie supporters are "bros"), did you know that I was a fan of Sherrod Brown as a better "moderate" candidate?
It's true...about a year ago I was hoping Brown would throw his hat into the ring.

I'll repeat it, for me it is not the end of the world if Bernie can't win the primaries.
It would be a disappointment for me, but if we have to have a moderate candidate, at least one with strong enough principles to fight the radical Party of Trump would be okay.

Bear in mind my warning that there ARE NO MODERATES remaining on the other side anymore.
Are there still one or two? Romney...maybe.
And he's effectively out of the Republican Party now, after his vote to convict Trump.

So, when you put a moderate Democrat in the White House, and they go looking for moderate conservatives to reach across the aisle to, who do you think is going to reach back.

Mitch??? :lamo

 

[Greenbeard]

Check the odds for Sherrod Brown coming out of a contested convention as time goes on.

As for you saying Bloomberg would give trump a landslide, that tells me you’re afraid of Bloomberg.

Bloomberg is second behind Sen. Brown as the candidate who can flip the 100 electoral votes that trump flipped, as well as flipping AZ and NC.

I’d love the chance to vote for Sherrod Brown again. He was the candidate I most wanted to see enter this race.

But a compromise candidate (who didn’t compete in a single primary) coming out of a deadlocked convention in this era seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

[ttwtt78640]

When do superdelegates vote?

My understanding is that they will now vote in the second round (unlike last time) - which would only be necessary if no candidate has won over 50% of the (normal) delegates.

 

[Linc]

As a check against your theory (the one that sounds a lot like: all Bernie supporters are "bros"), did you know that I was a fan of Sherrod Brown as a better "moderate" candidate?
It's true...about a year ago I was hoping Brown would throw his hat into the ring.

I'll repeat it, for me it is not the end of the world if Bernie can't win the primaries.
It would be a disappointment for me, but if we have to have a moderate candidate, at least one with strong enough principles to fight the radical Party of Trump would be okay.

Bear in mind my warning that there ARE NO MODERATES remaining on the other side anymore.
Are there still one or two? Romney...maybe.
And he's effectively out of the Republican Party now, after his vote to convict Trump.

So, when you put a moderate Democrat in the White House, and they go looking for moderate conservatives to reach across the aisle to, who do you think is going to reach back.

Mitch??? :lamo

The problem is that trump’s base will still be alive in the eight Midwest states for the next three to five or so potus elections. Democrats simply can’t win the electoral college without the five Midwest states trump flipped, as well as hold on to Klobuchar’s Minnesota.

Other toss-up states won by Clinton are Colorado, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Virginia, and Nevada. What is the best ticket in those states. Which ticket has a chance of flipping North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Arizona.

My point on the Midwest is further accentuated by how many Midwesterners have retired to or relocated to southern states, like my brother and his family and many others I know. They will vote for Midwestern Democrats. They will not vote for northeast liberals.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Sorry but in the end it still boils down to "Somoza good, Ortega bad".
Defend Somoza.

It’s both sad and hilarious that people think this is a weakness for Bernie, especially from Republicans who embrace Reagan and Democrats who embrace Hillary Clinton. I say put everyone’s views on foreign policy on the table. Lets see who comes out on top.

 

[Linc]

I’d love the chance to vote for Sherrod Brown again. He was the candidate I most wanted to see enter this race.

But a compromise candidate (who didn’t compete in a single primary) coming out of a deadlocked convention in this era seems like a bit of a stretch.

Be not afraid of an open convention. We need a cleansing. The last time this nation had one was with both parties in 1952. By the time we get to a dozen ballots, Democrats will be begging Sen. Brown to be the nominee.

Sherrod Brown checks every box voters are passionate for with EVERY candidate. He stands for #Dignity of Work, won the crucial Midwestern state of Ohio by 300,000 votes in 2018, and is the best hybrid candidate we have between the left and center of the Democratic Party.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The problem is that trump’s base will still be alive in the eight Midwest states for the next three to five or so potus elections. Democrats simply can’t win the electoral college without the five Midwest states trump flipped, as well as hold on to Klobuchar’s Minnesota.

Other toss-up states won by Clinton are Colorado, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Virginia, and Nevada. What is the best ticket in those states. Which ticket has a chance of flipping North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Arizona.

My point on the Midwest is further accentuated by how many Midwesterners have retired to or relocated to southern states, like my brother and his family and many others I know. They will vote for Midwestern Democrats. They will not vote for northeast liberals.

Trump's base? Now you're suggesting a Democratic candidate has to appeal to Trump's BASE???
Oh screw it, let's just have two Republican Parties, right?
I'm sure the Republican Lite party will get tons of cooperation from the GOP, just like they cooperated with our moderate Democratic president that they called:

A Kenyan not born here
Paling around with terrorists
A socialist

A NIGGER

Michelle is a man


We're supposed to be so afraid of alienating THAT that we need to run a super-conservative moderate Dem?
Where are all those "moderates" in the Republican Party that our "moderate" Dem POTUS is going to work with?

404 - NOT FOUND!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Be not afraid of an open convention. We need a cleansing. The last time this nation had one was with both parties in 1952. By the time we get to a dozen ballots, Democrats will be begging Sen. Brown to be the nominee.

Sherrod Brown checks every box voters are passionate for with EVERY candidate. He stands for #Dignity of Work, won the crucial Midwestern state of Ohio by 300,000 votes in 2018, and is the best hybrid candidate we have between the left and center of the Democratic Party.

And then all we have to do is find the missing moderate hybrid Republicans he is supposed to work with.
Let me know when you find them.

1952 called...they want to know, too.
Ike's asking, he's a bit sore from all those "moderate" Republicans calling him a communist sympathizer.

 

[cpwill]

There's no way to slam Sanders on his criticism of Reagan's foreign policy without examining Reagan's foreign policy.

‘I Did My Best to Stop American Foreign Policy’: Bernie Sanders on the 1980s - The New York Times

Bernie Sanders Puts The New York Times to Shame - Truthdig

Possibly, but Trump doesn't have to defend Reagan's foreign policy. Sanders does have to defend his defense and cheerleading of brutal murderers.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[cpwill]

Perhaps you're the one who didn't read cpwill's post. I refuted it with a link, easily:

Bernie Sanders Puts The New York Times to Shame - Truthdig

All this article does is quote Bernie at length taking about how he didn't like Reagan's foreign policy, and quotes someone one Twitter who also didn't like Reagan's foreign policy.

In what universe does this constitute a refutation of anything in the post you were responding to?

I wasn't the one who brought up Reagan. It's right in cpwill's post.

Well, like you, I was citing Bernie, who used and continues to use Reagan as his excuse for what he did and said.

I'm not a Republican, and my gut twists at the thought of four more years of Trump. But, if you think that is the answer that is going to get him or his campaign through a general, if you think THAT is the winning answer to hundreds of millions of dollars worth of:


[Clip of Bernie praising Castro]
[Clip of a Cuban woman talking tearfully about what the Cuban regime did to her child]
[Clip of Bernie responding to criticism of Castro by saying it's all right wing propaganda, and saying they have good health care]
[Back to the woman]
[Voice clip of Bernie saying that we are going to have good healthcare, here too]

And...

[Clip of Bernie praising the Sandinistas]
[Clip of another Hispanic American woman who was raped and watched her husband be murdered by Sandinistas]
[Clip of Bernie saying his support of that was justified because he wanted to oppose Reagan]

And...

[Clip of Bernie praising Castro]
[Clip with a Black Cuban, talking about the Castro Regime's brutal racism...]
[Clip of Bernie defending Castro, saying the criticism is all right wing propaganda]
[Clip of Bernie saying "and they have great healthcare"]
[Clip of Bernie saying "and we're gonna have great healthcare]

Etc., So on, and So forth.


....well, it reinforces my point that neither he nor his supporters currently have an effective means of addressing this charge. Maybe in 2021 Bernie and Jeremy Corbyn can go on world tour together.

 

[Dans La Lune]

All this article does is quote Bernie at length taking about how he didn't like Reagan's foreign policy, and quotes someone one Twitter who also didn't like Reagan's foreign policy.

In what universe does this constitute a refutation of anything in the post you were responding to?

Did you click the links that were in the article, including his interview with Sydney Ember?

Well, like you, I was citing Bernie, who used and continues to use Reagan as his excuse for what he did and said.

Why did Bernie do specifically?

I'm not a Republican, and my gut twists at the thought of four more years of Trump.

What part of Trump's agenda don't you like? What Democrat would you support in Bernie's place?

....well, it reinforces my point that neither he nor his supporters currently have an effective means of addressing this charge. Maybe in 2021 Bernie and Jeremy Corbyn can go on world tour together.

Bernie praised Ortega and Castro in the distant past. And? Finish the thought.

I'm not even sure what the exact charge is against Bernie. Is it being suggested that Bernie supports human rights atrocities? If so, then please come right out and say it.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Possibly, but Trump doesn't have to defend Reagan's foreign policy. Sanders does have to defend his defense and cheerleading of brutal murderers.

Again, what's the charge against Bernie? There's a lot of vague innuendo but I want you to land a punch. Give it your best shot.

I think this really comes down to foreign policy views, because the charge that Bernie is an apologist for war atrocities is going to be the biggest fail in political history.

 

[cpwill]

Did you click the links that were in the article, including his interview with Sydney Ember?

I read the link you provided. At no point did it refute anything I wrote. Instead, it quoted Bernie at length attempting to deflect from one of the items (his support to the Sandinistas) by talking about how much he didn't like Reagan's foreign policy, and cited someone on Twitter expressing a similar sentiment. In no logical, coherent, manner, is this a "refutation" of anything.

Why did Bernie do specifically?

I'm assuming you meant to write "what" did Bernie do, specifically, in which case, I would direct your attention to the post (#57) that you were responding to, which contains what I was able to find in a couple of minutes with a quick search on my phone (I rather suspect the GOP would be a bit more thorough) in order to demonstrate the point that there does, indeed, exist material out there which will be a problem for Bernie, should he win the nomination.

What part of Trump's agenda don't you like?

I don't like his trade wars, I don't like his bailouts, I don't like his sclerotic and weak defense policies, I don't like that he wants to expand the federal government, I don't like that he's a sucker when it comes to dictator thugs like Erdogan and terrorist-supporting groups like the Taliban, I don't like his abuse of others, I don't like his gun grabbing, I don't like his

What Democrat would you support in Bernie's place?

Pro-Life ones. It' the one thing I can't justify compromising on.

Bernie praised Ortega and Castro in the distant past

And not so distant past.

And? Finish the thought.

And, as I have told you multiple times, that is going to be something that he's going to get hit on, it's a vulnerability of his, and you and the rest of his supporters in this thread are actively demonstrating that you are woefully under-prepared to respond effectively, just as he has been.

I'm not even sure what the exact charge is against Bernie.

Again, I would have to direct you to the post above, which you responded to, and which you apparently didn't bother to read.

 

[marke]

Bernie supporters: If Bernie doesn't win the democrat nomination will you vote for the candidate that does?

If Bernie doesn't win the nomination then I am blaming the Russians, the vast left-wing conspiracy and Hillary Clinton.