[W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

[Scorps2000]

Actually, it was a mistake should have looked closer. The PP one is wrong, but the Right to Life Michigan is correct.

I'll post the correction in a minute. My apologizes.

 

[Scorps2000]

***** CORRECTION TO POST #321 *****

Somebody is not being truethfull:

How Federal Funding Works at Planned Parenthood
| Planned Parenthood Federation of America Inc. and Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Inc.
Most of Planned Parenthood’s federal funding is from Medicaid reimbursements for preventive care, and some is from
Title X. At least 60% of Planned Parenthood patients rely on public health programs like Medicaid and Title X for
preventive and primary care. “Defund" legislation immediately blocks these patients from care at Planned Parenthood
centers


Are My Tax Dollars Paying for Abortion? - Right to Life of Michigan
Federal, state and local funds can be used to either pay directly for abortions, or to subsidize abortions through
supporting abortion providers, or by subsidizing health insurance plans. Tax-funding of abortion dramatically increases
the amount of abortions.

 

[weaver2]

***** CORRECTION TO POST #321 *****

Somebody is not being truethfull:

How Federal Funding Works at Planned Parenthood
| Planned Parenthood Federation of America Inc. and Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Inc.
Most of Planned Parenthood’s federal funding is from Medicaid reimbursements for preventive care, and some is from
Title X. At least 60% of Planned Parenthood patients rely on public health programs like Medicaid and Title X for
preventive and primary care. “Defund" legislation immediately blocks these patients from care at Planned Parenthood
centers


Are My Tax Dollars Paying for Abortion? - Right to Life of Michigan
Federal, state and local funds can be used to either pay directly for abortions, or to subsidize abortions through
supporting abortion providers, or by subsidizing health insurance plans. Tax-funding of abortion dramatically increases
the amount of abortions.

Your quote from "I stand with PP" doesn't have anything to do with state and federal payment for abortions. It's talking about payment for preventive services, which would include: sex-ed, STD and other disease screening and testing, contraceptive information and provision, pregnancy, pre and post natal information and care.
This quote doesn't support your belief that state and federal funding is available to everyone for abortions.



Your quote from Michigan Right to Life is only part of the information about abortion funding. Here's the rest of it:

Does Planned Parenthood use taxpayer money on abortions?
Planned Parenthood receives more than $500 million dollars in taxpayer funding every year. ......... Planned Parenthood claims abortion is inseparable from their mission, and with half of their budget coming from taxpayers, it’s safe to say our tax dollars are inseparable from their abortion mission.

(Sounds really bad. What they are not telling you is that the $500M is for payment of non-abortion services, like the ones listed above. And what you haven't posted from that site is the bit about the Hyde Amendment posted below since you forgot it)


What is the Hyde Amendment? Can federal tax dollars pay for abortions?
Since 1977, an annual budget rider called the Hyde Amendment has been signed into law prohibiting federal payments through Medicaid for most abortions. Exceptions include ending pregnancies when the mother’s life is in danger, and since 1993 abortions in the case of rape, or incest. Other health programs (military care, Veterans Administration, Indian Health Service, etc.) that provide direct care are largely restricted from providing abortions services.


Federal and state funds are not being used to pay for abortions except in the case of incest, rape and maternal or fetal death

You're right someone is not being truethful(sic)

 

[weaver2]

Federal and state funds are not being used to pay for abortions except in the case of incest, rape and maternal or fetal death

How many times do you have to be told that before you stop saying that the federal and state governments fund abortions????????

 

[Scorps2000]

How many times do you have to be told that before you stop saying that the federal and state governments fund abortions????????

You can say it as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. Prove it...

 

[Scorps2000]

Are American Taxpayers Paying For Abortion?

According to this article american taxpayers subsidize 24% of all abortions in the US.

 

[minnie616]

Re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

Are American Taxpayers Paying For Abortion?

According to this article american taxpayers subsidize 24% of all abortions in the US.

Again your website is misleading.

If an individual state wishes to fund an abortion for Medicaid patients, they can NOT use Federal taxpayer funds :

From the following:

Because Medicaid is jointly funded by the federal and state governments, states can choose to pay for abortions under Medicaid in other instances, but must use their own revenues, and not federal funds, to cover the service. Currently, 15 states have a policy directing the use of their own funds to pay for abortions for low-income women insured by Medicaid beyond the Hyde limitations, 9 of which provide coverage as the result of a court order (Figure 1). The Arizona Medicaid program, however, does not pay for abortions outside of circumstances permitted by Hyde despite court orders directing them to do so. Maine has passed a law that requires state funds to pay for Medicaid abortion services beyond the Hyde limitations starting in March 2020.

The Hyde Amendment and Coverage for Abortion Services | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

 

[weaver2]

You can say it as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. Prove it...

OK you need to describe exactly how abortion clinics are getting paid federal money for abortions other than rape, incest and maternal and fetal risk of death.

How are you going to explain away the Hyde Amendment?

 

[Scorps2000]

OK you need to describe exactly how abortion clinics are getting paid federal and state money for abortions other than rape, incest and maternal and fetal risk of death.

How are you going to explain away the Hyde Amendment?

Are American Taxpayers Paying For Abortion?

Taxpayers subsidize roughly 24% of all abortion costs in the U.S. with 6.6% borne by federal taxpayers and the remaining
17.4% picked up by state taxpayers. If we apply the 24% figure to the total number of abortions, this is equivalent to
taxpayers paying the full cost of 250,000 abortions a year, with about 70,000 financed by federal taxpayers and 180,000
financed by state taxpayers.

 

[weaver2]

Are American Taxpayers Paying For Abortion?

Taxpayers subsidize roughly 24% of all abortion costs in the U.S. with 6.6% borne by federal taxpayers and the remaining
17.4% picked up by state taxpayers. If we apply the 24% figure to the total number of abortions, this is equivalent to
taxpayers paying the full cost of 250,000 abortions a year, with about 70,000 financed by federal taxpayers and 180,000
financed by state taxpayers.

That's all through state funding and if your state doesn't fund medicaid abortions then it's not a problem for you. If your state does fund medicaid abortions then you can form a political group and work to repeal the law. But keep in mind that you live in a democracy and the majority gets to determine laws. That's the way the founding fathers wrote the Constitution. Majority rules.

 

[Scorps2000]

That's all through state funding and if your state doesn't fund medicaid abortions then it's not a problem for you. If your state does fund medicaid abortions then you can form a political group and work to repeal the law. But keep in mind that you live in a democracy and the majority gets to determine laws. That's the way the founding fathers wrote the Constitution. Majority rules.

"Hyde Amendment has been signed into law prohibiting federal payments through Medicaid for most abortions."

What are you saying, now federal payment can fund abortion, I'm confused...

 

[Crusader13]

I would quibble with that being the biggest thing but it certainly is true and it will be for women who can afford it and have the right connections. And as we've learned over the past few years it will be encouraged, if not paid for, for the mistresses of anti-choice Republicans.* There are many reasons to be pro-choice and this is just one of them.

Yet funny enough, those who thing making abortions illegal won't stop it seem to think making guns illegal will stop shootings.

I swear the Left went from trying ti hide their sheer hypocrisy and double standards to blatantly just owning them. Hypothetically you could use this argument against murder and cocaine as well. Hey, people are always going to do it regardless of the law so might as well just make it legal so we can make sure it's controlled and safe, right?

 

[weaver2]

"Hyde Amendment has been signed into law prohibiting federal payments through Medicaid for most abortions."

What are you saying, now federal payment can fund abortion, I'm confused...

I'm more confused.

 

[weaver2]

Hey, people are always going to do it regardless of the law so might as well just make it legal so we can make sure it's controlled and safe, right?

It worked with alcohol, marijuana, abortion, driving, smoking, building, literature, pornography, name calling, gun ownership, war, mining, religion, childrearing, in Nevada, prostitution, food additives and insect parts, and any other human activity that if carried to extremes would be detrimental but if controlled is OK.

 

[digitusmedius]

Yet funny enough, those who thing making abortions illegal won't stop it seem to think making guns illegal will stop shootings.

I swear the Left went from trying ti hide their sheer hypocrisy and double standards to blatantly just owning them. Hypothetically you could use this argument against murder and cocaine as well. Hey, people are always going to do it regardless of the law so might as well just make it legal so we can make sure it's controlled and safe, right?

While rightwing nutcases continue to equate mass murder and and a woman's right to make decisions about her own reproductive life--something their massively hypocritical religious garbage orders them to do.

 

[Crusader13]

It worked with alcohol, marijuana, abortion, driving, smoking, building, literature, pornography, name calling, gun ownership, war, mining, religion, childrearing, in Nevada, prostitution, food additives and insect parts, and any other human activity that if carried to extremes would be detrimental but if controlled is OK.

Great, so we're finding common ground. You agree that religious institutions should have the right to selectively discriminate to uphold their beliefs, citizens should have the right to gun ownership, and everyone should have the right to free speech - even if it's negative, hurtful, and slightly racist/sexist/transphobic.

If you're willing to apply the legalisation logic to all of those instances, I'm happy to concede it against abortion too. Unfortunately, the majority of those on the Left using the legalisation of abortion logic also fundamentally oppose all of the things I just mentioned. They only want to legalise things that they like.

 

[digitusmedius]

What are you saying, now federal payment can fund abortion, I'm confused...

No he wasn't saying that and that you were confused was more than apparent from the get-go.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Are American Taxpayers Paying For Abortion?

According to this article american taxpayers subsidize 24% of all abortions in the US.

I have no problem w/ this. Abortion is covered here under universal health care, as it should be.

 

[digitusmedius]

Actually, it was a mistake should have looked closer. The PP one is wrong, but the Right to Life Michigan is correct.

I'll post the correction in a minute. My apologizes.

Nope, the MI claim was a lie to begin with and (surprise!!) still is.

 

[digitusmedius]

You can say it as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. Prove it...

At last we come to the onus* probandi fallacy--a particular favorite of rightwingers who slap up unsubstantiated BS (often repetitively as in this case) and demand to be proven wrong.


*not to be confused with anus probandi but which may also apply here.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Yet funny enough, those who thing making abortions illegal won't stop it seem to think making guns illegal will stop shootings.

I have never said that making guns illegal will stop shootings. I have never even advocated making them (guns) illegal.

I swear the Left went from trying ti hide their sheer hypocrisy and double standards to blatantly just owning them. Hypothetically you could use this argument against murder and cocaine as well. Hey, people are always going to do it regardless of the law so might as well just make it legal so we can make sure it's controlled and safe, right?

I am not on the left. Drugs should be legal. Murder harms non consenting human beings. Abortion does not.

 

[weaver2]

Great, so we're finding common ground. You agree that religious institutions should have the right to selectively discriminate to uphold their beliefs, citizens should have the right to gun ownership, and everyone should have the right to free speech - even if it's negative, hurtful, and slightly racist/sexist/transphobic.

If you're willing to apply the legalisation logic to all of those instances, I'm happy to concede it against abortion too. Unfortunately, the majority of those on the Left using the legalisation of abortion logic also fundamentally oppose all of the things I just mentioned. They only want to legalise things that they like.

Religious institutions do have the right to discriminate within certain legal boundaries. People have the right to own firearms again within certain legal limitations. Free speech has legal boundaries. Mining has to follow certain regulations as do dam building, farming, housing developments, sewage treatment plants and driving vehicles. Can you think of a single human activity outside of picking your nose and biting your fingernails that doesn't have rules, regulations, laws, requirements, or prohibitions associated with it?

And yes the Democrats legislate for and against things just as do Republicans. It has very little to do with party and a great deal to do with how we structure civilization.

 

[weaver2]

""When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." and completely distracted from the truth of what's happening by screeching about women baby killers.

 

[Crusader13]

Religious institutions do have the right to discriminate within certain legal boundaries. People have the right to own firearms again within certain legal limitations. Free speech has legal boundaries. Mining has to follow certain regulations as do dam building, farming, housing developments, sewage treatment plants and driving vehicles. Can you think of a single human activity outside of picking your nose and biting your fingernails that doesn't have rules, regulations, laws, requirements, or prohibitions associated with it?

And yes the Democrats legislate for and against things just as do Republicans. It has very little to do with party and a great deal to do with how we structure civilization.

Great, like I said we've found common ground. Unfortunately, the majority of those who support abortion and use the legalisation logic don't share your views. They'll gladly believe that legalising abortion will control the issue yet are firmly against gun ownership and endless other things that don't fit their agenda.

Case in point - constant efforts to force religious organisations to cater events that go against their beliefs, trying to make "hate speech" (which they can't even define) a thing, and trying to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

 

[Scorps2000]

"I am not on the left. Drugs should be legal. Murder harms nonconsenting human beings. Abortion does not".

I disagree totally, I was "harmed" when my girlfriend had an abortion. That is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on this forum!