[W:1422] Federal Deficit Soars

[code1211]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

l Reagan was spending like a drunken sailor. with all that stimulus things were bound to get better.

i voted for him the first time. made a lot of money building shopping centers. he accelerated the.depreciation on commercial real estate and deregulated the savings and.loans to finance the building boom. of course we all know what happened then.

didn't vote for him again!

I voted for Carter.

Didn't vote for him again.

Were you better off in 1984 than in 1980?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984

 

[washunut]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Tax rate cuts reduce revenues, period. You can't cut tax rates and GROW government, spend more, reduce deficits.
There is no free lunch in tax policy. No, Virginia, there is no Tax Santa Clause.



There is plenty of income to pay off our debt. What's missing is the will to levy taxes. Countries all over the globe fund government spending far higher as a share of GDP than we spend.

An entire political movement is mired in this lie that tax cuts don't lower revenue - that's a HUGE part of our problem.

If I may intercede. First I would say that there are a myriad of taxes we as Americans pay. So when we talk about them we should be more specific IMO.

I would agree for example that lowering the rate on the highest earners makes little economic sense. I hate the term keep the money your earn. When you go to a restaurant and the bill comes no complaining it is my money that I earned and refuse to pay.

When you mention other nations, remember that they almost universally have a VAT tax that is regressive, we don't on the Federal level.

Where I respectfully disagree is on the corporate tax side. America has many disadvantages when it comes to putting a factory here versus Asia or Mexico. Corporate tax rates is one of these, while the biggest is health care costs as Buffett stated. Let's remember that we are talking about being competitive when folks look at the after tax return on their investment to build a factory. On the plus side America is still the largest consumer economy in the world.

On the flip side I am not sure that having fewer people with skin in the game is a good thing. I would like to see getting rid of regressive payroll taxes and having pay something at the lower end even if it is less than the payroll taxes that they and their employer paid.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Reagan's tax cuts were phased in and the phase-in took three years to occur. I seem to recall that in my little corner of the world that things hit bottom in early 1982.

I've heard that the various advantages offered for investment did not kick in until long after the initial passage. This actually caused a delay in increased business activity as you observe.

In any event though, of the few people that I know that own their own businesses, one quality is common to all- independence. They don't like being told what to do and do like control.

Reagan's idea was to unleash their creativity by removing the tax restraints on reward for risk. The observable outcome was pretty good.

When Reagan asked if people were better off in 1984 than they were "four years ago", the vote shows the resounding answer from the folks that were actually experiencing the results of Reaganomics.

OK, but you're not talking about revenue any more, just theory.

Bottom line is simple - tax rate cuts reduce revenue. What happened in the Reagan era was not an exception. You can't cut tax rates and GROW government, spend more.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

And yet the Federal Revenues continue to grow AFTER the cuts to the rates.

Your close minded, data-free assumptions are simply wrong.

OK, I showed you data, and you ignored it. And I'm not closed minded - I just don't believe in free lunches or a tax Santa Clause, or believe that the way to GROW government is to CUT tax rates, and if you want to cut government spending, you should RAISE tax rates.

That's the theory you're peddling here.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

If I may intercede. First I would say that there are a myriad of taxes we as Americans pay. So when we talk about them we should be more specific IMO.

I would agree for example that lowering the rate on the highest earners makes little economic sense. I hate the term keep the money your earn. When you go to a restaurant and the bill comes no complaining it is my money that I earned and refuse to pay.

When you mention other nations, remember that they almost universally have a VAT tax that is regressive, we don't on the Federal level.

Where I respectfully disagree is on the corporate tax side. America has many disadvantages when it comes to putting a factory here versus Asia or Mexico. Corporate tax rates is one of these, while the biggest is health care costs as Buffett stated. Let's remember that we are talking about being competitive when folks look at the after tax return on their investment to build a factory. On the plus side America is still the largest consumer economy in the world.

On the flip side I am not sure that having fewer people with skin in the game is a good thing. I would like to see getting rid of regressive payroll taxes and having pay something at the lower end even if it is less than the payroll taxes that they and their employer paid.

I agree with almost all that, and I've said many times I supported in theory lowering corporate tax rates, although I have serious issues with the tax bill as enacted. But that's off topic really.

What I object to is simply the idea that there is a free lunch in economics and tax policy and the way to raise revenue is to lower tax rates for wealthy donors and powerful corporations, etc. Lower taxes are a good thing, but the inevitable trade-off for lower tax rates is SMALLER government, not bigger government.

 

[rickc]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

but the inevitable trade-off for lower tax rates is SMALLER government, not bigger government

obviously not when government has an unlimited credit card

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

but the inevitable trade-off for lower tax rates is SMALLER government, not bigger government

obviously not when government has an unlimited credit card

end the drug war to cut spending, right wingers.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

but the inevitable trade-off for lower tax rates is SMALLER government, not bigger government

obviously not when government has an unlimited credit card

Yeah, sure. Cheney: "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter. [We won the election. More tax cuts] is our due."

That's all anyone needs to know about GOP fiscal policy. Period. The end.

 

[Media_Truth]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What is really sad is that we have people like you who never took a civics class to understand who controls the legislative process and purse strings thus are the only ones to believe this BS. Seems you have such a short memory, who controlled the Congress in 2007-2011? Who controlled the Purse Strings? Who signed the 842 billion stimulus in February 2008? Who signed the 2009 fiscal year budget in March 2009? Who recycled TARP instead of reducing the debt?

You see, this is why you leftists continue to lose elections, false misleading beliefs and statements.

Not sure what benefit you get out of liberalism but buying the rhetoric doesn't give you any credibility. Tax cuts don't reduce revenue as TREASURY shows but that doesn't stop leftists from promoting that liberal utopia that never seems to be found. Keep buying the rhetoric and keep losing elections.

I'll let the facts and history speak for themselves ---> Republicans = Higher Deficits + Wider income gaps between rich and middle class.

 

[distraff]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Despite Strong Economy, Federal Deficit Soars

Due to the Trump/GOP tax-cut-giveaway of 2017, the wealthy are getting richer and the US Treasury is forced to borrow increasing amounts to stay afloat.

Under current law, the federal government will spend more on Interest than it does on Defense by 2024.

Related: How the Trump Tax Cut Is Helping to Push the Federal Deficit to $1 Trillion

What is interesting is that under even Bush the deficit fell when the economy boomed. It fell from 400 billion to 200 billion. Of course his policies still resulted in a net increase in deficit because there was actually a surplus under Clinton. Even when the economy is booming the deficit is now rising to almost a trillion under Trump and is the first time we have seen trillion dollar deficits in a healthy economy. We need to vote him out.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

I'll let the facts and history speak for themselves ---> Republicans = Higher Deficits + Wider income gaps between rich and middle class.

Yes, I am sure that is what you believe however as we have seen over and over again you don't have any credibility at all not knowing the difference between the debt and the deficits or any understanding of basic civics. The left sure has a tool in you and I know how proud they must be

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What is interesting is that under even Bush the deficit fell when the economy boomed. It fell from 400 billion to 200 billion. Of course his policies still resulted in a net increase in deficit because there was actually a surplus under Clinton. Even when the economy is booming the deficit is now rising to almost a trillion under Trump and is the first time we have seen trillion dollar deficits in a healthy economy. We need to vote him out.

Yes, that is what the left continues to tell you as they spew hatred and total ignorance of reality. Clinton NEVER had a surplus as he added 1.4 TRILLION to the debt and the debt under Obama rose 9.3 trillion dollars in 8 years. Trump will not have a trillion dollar deficit and 450 billion of the current deficit is interest expense on the debt Trump inherited. Sure wish people like you would learn how to do research and even get a basic understanding of the budget and civics. None of what you said is true

 

[distraff]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Yes, that is what the left continues to tell you as they spew hatred and total ignorance of reality. Clinton NEVER had a surplus as he added 1.4 TRILLION to the debt and the debt under Obama rose 9.3 trillion dollars in 8 years. Trump will not have a trillion dollar deficit and 450 billion of the current deficit is interest expense on the debt Trump inherited. Sure wish people like you would learn how to do research and even get a basic understanding of the budget and civics. None of what you said is true

Actually there were surpluses from 1998 to 2000.
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

The deficit did increase under Clinton but it increased far less than other presidents. E.g. Bush added 5 trillion to the debt compared to 1.4 trillion under Bush. Under Clinton it fell from 62% to 56% while under every other president it rose.

 

[rickc]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Yes, that is what the left continues to tell you as they spew hatred and total ignorance of reality. Clinton NEVER had a surplus as he added 1.4 TRILLION to the debt and the debt under Obama rose 9.3 trillion dollars in 8 years. Trump will not have a trillion dollar deficit and 450 billion of the current deficit is interest expense on the debt Trump inherited. Sure wish people like you would learn how to do research and even get a basic understanding of the budget and civics. None of what you said is true

we realize that is your perception of reality.

opinions vary!

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Actually there were surpluses from 1998 to 2000.
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

The deficit did increase under Clinton but it increased far less than other presidents. E.g. Bush added 5 trillion to the debt compared to 1.4 trillion under Bush. Under Clinton it fell from 62% to 56% while under every other president it rose.

NO, sorry there wasn't Treasury data trumps anything you post

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

Like most you don't understand that total debt is made up of two areas, public debt and inter-government holdings. Money was taken out of SS and Medicare to show a lower public debt leaving a liability which was debt in inter-govt. holdings

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

we realize that is your perception of reality.

opinions vary!

Reality is data yours is fiction.

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

 

[distraff]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

NO, sorry there wasn't Treasury data trumps anything you post

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

Like most you don't understand that total debt is made up of two areas, public debt and inter-government holdings. Money was taken out of SS and Medicare to show a lower public debt leaving a liability which was debt in inter-govt. holdings

Your source isn't adjusting for inflation and economic growth. The deficit is revenue minus expenses and I don't see how money taken out of these programs is part of that equation.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Your source isn't adjusting for inflation and economic growth. The deficit is revenue minus expenses and I don't see how money taken out of these programs is part of that equation.

My source provides the data on which the taxpayers pay debt service and that is all that matters. What is wrong with you people? Inflation and economic growth are in the numbers, always have been. By the way my source is the BANK ACCOUNT OF THE UNITED STATES. You don't like the numbers, call them

 

[Media_Truth]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Your source isn't adjusting for inflation and economic growth. The deficit is revenue minus expenses and I don't see how money taken out of these programs is part of that equation.

Don't bother. He just likes to hear himself spout off. His rhetoric is entirely false...

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Don't bother. He just likes to hear himself spout off. His rhetoric is entirely false...

Have you bothered to tell Treasury their data was wrong? Give them a call 1-202-622-2000

 

[marke]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

I'll let the facts and history speak for themselves ---> Republicans = Higher Deficits + Wider income gaps between rich and middle class.

Obama set the record with a growth of almost $10 trillion in U.S. debt. There is no way he can hide from that inconvenient truth.

With apologies to Nancy Pelosi, increased government spending is not the way toward national freedom from debt.

 

[marke]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What is interesting is that under even Bush the deficit fell when the economy boomed. It fell from 400 billion to 200 billion. Of course his policies still resulted in a net increase in deficit because there was actually a surplus under Clinton. Even when the economy is booming the deficit is now rising to almost a trillion under Trump and is the first time we have seen trillion dollar deficits in a healthy economy. We need to vote him out.

Vote Trump out for spending too much money? Who are you thinking of replacing him with, Burney?




Occasio?

 

[distraff]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Vote Trump out for spending too much money? Who are you thinking of replacing him with, Burney?

View attachment 67238439


Occasio?

View attachment 67238440

I am not a socialist either. I don't support Bernie. I support candidates who want to cut spending and our deficit.

 

[distraff]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

My source provides the data on which the taxpayers pay debt service and that is all that matters. What is wrong with you people? Inflation and economic growth are in the numbers, always have been. By the way my source is the BANK ACCOUNT OF THE UNITED STATES. You don't like the numbers, call them

No, they are not in the numbers. Your source simply measures the dollar change in the debt. This doesn't take into account inflation, economic growth, or population growth.

 

[Media_Truth]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Have you bothered to tell Treasury their data was wrong? Give them a call 1-202-622-2000

Here you go Mr. Republican:
1978 $59 $73 2.5% First Carter budget.
1979 $41 $55 1.5% Volcker raised rates to 20%.
1980 $74 $81 2.6% Recession. Iran oil embargo.
1981 $79 $90 2.4% Reagan tax cut.
1982 $128 $144 3.8% Reagan's 1st budget.
1983 $208 $235 5.6% Jobless rate 10.8%.
1984 $185 $195 4.5% Increased defense spending.
1985 $212 $256 4.8%
1986 $221 $297 4.8% Tax cut.
1987 $150 $225 3.1% Market crash
1988 $155 $252 2.9% Fed raised rates.
1989 $153 $255 2.7% S&L Crisis.
1990 $221 $376 3.7% Desert Storm.
1991 $269 $432 4.3% Recession.
1992 $290 $399 4.4%
1993 $255 $347 3.7% Clinton signed Balanced Budget Act.
1994 $203 $281 2.8% First Clinton budget.
1995 $164 $281 2.1%
1996 $107 $251 1.3% Welfare reform.
1997 $22 $188 0.3%
1998 ($69) $113 (0.8%) LTCM crisis.
1999 ($126) $130 (1.3%) Glass-Steagall repealed.
2000 ($236) $18 (2.3%) Surplus.
2001 ($128) $133 (1.2%) 9/11 attacks. EGTRRA.
2002 $158 $421 1.4% War on Terror.
2003 $378 $555 3.3% JGTRRA.
2004 $413 $596 3.4%
2005 $318 $554 2.4% Katrina. Bankruptcy Act.
2006 $248 $574 1.8% Bernanke chairs Fed.
2007 $161 $501 1.1% Iraq War cost.
2008 $459 $1,017 3.1% Bank bailout. QE.
2009 $1,413 $1,632 9.8% Stimulus Act.
2010 $1,294 $1,905 8.6% Obama tax cuts. ACA. Simpson-Bowles.
2011 $1,300 $1,229 8.3% Debt crisis.
2012 $1,087 $1,276 6.7% Fiscal cliff.
2013 $679 $672 4.0% Sequester. Government shutdown.
2014 $485 $1,086 2.7% Debt ceiling.
2015 $438 $327 2.4% Defense = $736.4 b.
2016 $585 $1,423 3.1% Defense = $767.3 b.
2017 $665 $672 3.4% Defense = $812.3 b.
2018 (est) $833 NA NA Defense = $824.7 b.

Analysis - Reagan High deficits in 1980s. The start of the mess. George Bush continued with deficits.
And then look! Oh my! Starting in 1992, the deficit starts dropping. WTG Clinton/Gore! Wow! All the way to a surplus for 4 years, and beautifully handed off to GW Bush, who screwed everything up royally. Oil wars, etc. And then the pathetic hand-off to Obama - the worst since the great depression. Banking/Housing crisis, out-of-control billionaire CEOs ripping off Americans under the Bush-Cheney watch, Depressed 401Ks, 2 Wars, a bankrupt American auto industry, etc, etc. Obama had no choice but to clean up the Republican mess. Once that was done. Wow! Look at that! Deficit reduced every year from 2011 through 2015. How about that! But then look. Chump gets into office in 2016. Bang, crash, boom - deficit gone amuk.

REPUBLICANS = HIGH DEFICITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!