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[W:1422] Federal Deficit Soars

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Why can't the US just print more dollars, if more revenue is needed? What is the limit?

under Obama, Republicans complained about the increasing US Debt. What has changed under Trump?

The US Dollar in relation to exchange rates seems to not affected by increase debt/ Will there be a cliff?

Curreny exchange rates are most definitely influenced by government expenditures.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

I say we should, and then have the world call in our debt. Our global buying power would drop so dramatically, manufacturing here would become cheaper.

There is no real "federal debt", the treasury issues treasury bonds, treasury bonds are not "callable". They mature at a prespecified date, and everyone who purchases treasuries are aware of this. Foreign holders of US treasuries can sell them on the third party market (most likely at huge losses if they all dumped at one time), but the US treasury could care less who holds the bonds.

Personally, I'd love it if US treasuries were all dumped at the same time, I could buy them pennies on the dollar.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

That knife cuts both ways.

WRONG. It is YOU that is trying to change the United States. It is YOU that wants to overthrow the Constitution of the United States and implement a socialist government.

That constitution protects YOU. It does something that no other document in any government has ever done before. It protects the minority opinion from being quashed by a majority opinion.

If you don't like the United States and the capitalism that exists here, you are free to leave. There are plenty of socialist nations out there to choose from.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

We simply need to reduce the largest spending to have impact, and the largest spending is social subsidies.
Bingo. 60-65% of our outlays each year are mandatory - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, service on the Debt. There are very few choices on how to reduce those expenses.
Lord of Planar said:
For the future, I propose that nobody gets to deduct children born starting the calendar year 2020. families need to plan to their lifestyle income without tax deductions for offspring. It's simple. If you can't afford children, then don't have them. This is one thing that can reduce future expenditures.
Interesting thought, I'm not sure how big an impact it would have on revenues, however.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What makes you think they are? Just because they pay more or than most people do? How do you know that what they pay is more than their "fair share"? I suppose "fair share" is the issue, how do you define that?

The U.S. has a progressive tax system. By that standard, it has already been decided that people are paying their fair share.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

We simply need to reduce the largest spending to have impact, and the largest spending is social subsidies.

For the future, I propose that nobody gets to deduct children born starting the calendar year 2020. families need to plan to their lifestyle income without tax deductions for offspring. It's simple. If you can't afford children, then don't have them. This is one thing that can reduce future expenditures.

I may be mistaken, but per family member exemptions no longer exist, as of this tax year. Trump is ahead of you by 2 years.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Bingo. 60-65% of our outlays each year are mandatory - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, service on the Debt. There are very few choices on how to reduce those expenses.
Interesting thought, I'm not sure how big an impact it would have on revenues, however.

Thing is, SS isn't paid out of the general fund. If we eliminated SS benefits or even reduced it, we would be stealing from those who paid into it for so many years, and much of our elderly who worked for decades wouldn't have a penny of income - we would see poverty on a massive scale. Same with Medicade. The SS trust fund is invested in Treasuries, if we cut benefits, then there would be even ore outstanding treasury bonds - and thus the federal debt would be even larger. Ya, it doesn't work the way you think it does.

Service on the debt is a very small percentage of our budget, and much of that is recouped directly or indirectly.

Medicare is a different story, Medicare is means tested welfare, I'm fine with eliminating all means tested welfare, but it's still not going to balance the budget. The ONLY way we could balance the budget is by slashing military spending, and few people want to slash it by enough to even make a difference.

Brings me to whether we even have a need to reduce the deficit or debt. The federal debt represents all the money that the US government has issued but has not yet taxed back. If we eliminated the debt, there would be no more dollars in existence.

We could reduce or eliminate the deficit and only issue enough treasury bonds to cover the bonds that are being redeemed, but what would be the point of that? The existence of the deficit allows a 100% safe place for people who have more US dollars than they know what to do with to park those dollars. without issuing enough treasuries to meet demand for treasuries, the value of the dollar would be destablized (because there would be too many of them floating around), at which time we would have to jack up taxes to stablize the dollar and prevent excessive inflation. I don't want to pay higher taxes, do you?
 
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Re: Federal Deficit Soars

I have a feeling that the title of this thread, was created in order to bash Trump, and our republicans in congress.

Folks, I'm not a Trump supporter, but don't fall for the hidden agenda. Without the increasing deficit, we wouldn't be creating so many jobs. Deficit spending is an ADDITION to our economy/gdp, not a subtraction. Republicans aren't really as stupid about the economy as many of you seem to think. They know, what apparently many of you don't know.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Um, the US federal tax is progressive, sure, but overall taxation creates the near magic condition where everyone pays an amount equal to their income share.


We actually do have an "everyone pays there fair share".

It's not really magic. Progressive tax systems are designed in a way where the wealthy contributions to majority of the tax burden of the nation. Most people think that is fair.

Compared to most countries; the U.S. tax system is very progressive.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Can you provide us with any examples of capitalistic countries that have no governments?

I can provide examples of capitalistic systems that didn't have a government. These cities formed without any government at all.

Los Angeles. Las Vegas. Seattle. New Orleans. New York. Dallas. Phoenix. San Francisco, Sacramento, and just about every other city in the United States.

These cities were founded by people who used capitalism to bring up an economy far enough they desired to form their own government to keep out the thieves and murderers. It was capitalism that brought these initial settlers, and later others that joined them, out of the jungle and into civilization.
To argue that these cities could not have formed out of the wilderness without the action of a government is a presentism fallacy.

These people formed their OWN government AFTER their economy had been built. While they were building that economy, there was NO CITY government. There was NO STATE government. They were totally without government at all.

Yet they formed their own society out of the wilderness.

States are built of those cities coming together along with those in the country, to form a common cause. Nations are build of States, coming together under a common cause.

The more capitalism is allowed to run free in a society (be it a nation, State, county, or city), the more prosperous that bit of society will be. Capitalism is the only system that creates wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth.

Government is not necessarily evil. It is not necessarily good. They are useful for helping to establish standards (such as what an 'inch' is, what an 'ounce' is, or what a 'dollar' is (which is actually a unit of weight). They can also provide services like common defense needs, and help keep thieves, murderers, rapists, etc. under some kind of control. The latter is best handled by local governments.

It is not a legitimate government function to manage an economy. It was never authorized by our constitution either. Essentially then, the Federal Reserve itself is illegal. Price controls, even price controls on money itself, never work. It is the Fed that reduces the price of money when it should be higher, causing people to borrow at a time when people are spending. This is destructive. It forms speculative bubbles that eventually must burst. The Fed again, sees it too late, and tries to raise the price of money when people are gambling. The bubble bursts. How far it goes depends on the level of interdependencies between loans banks made to each other as part of this speculative atmosphere.

Boom.Bust. Housing boom to bust. Stock market boom to bust (the type of downturn starting what later became the Great Depression, and same thing with the dot com bust).

The Fed causes it all. It is during the easy money times that the damage is being done. It is when the Fed pulls back slightly to cool an overheated economy (too late!) that often triggers the bust (if something else doesn't trigger it first!). It is the Fed that provides the easy money that people use to speculate with. The continue it too long because they don't understand that people are gambling, not stimulating the economy.

Keynesian economics is a failed model. It is money management. It is price controls on money itself.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

It's not really magic. Progressive tax systems are designed in a way where the wealthy contributions to majority of the tax burden of the nation. Most people think that is fair.

Compared to most countries; the U.S. tax system is very progressive.
No you missed it, everyone is paying an amount of total tax nearly equal to their income share, so if the fed taxation is progressive (lower quintiles pay a smaller share, higher quintiles pay a larger share), then all other taxation is regressive.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

No you missed it, everyone is paying an amount of total tax nearly equal to their income share, so if the fed taxation is progressive (lower quintiles pay a smaller share, higher quintiles pay a larger share), then all other taxation is regressive.

Correct. The U.S. has the most progressive tax system in the world, at least when it comes to developed nations.

The only countries I know where the tax system is more progressive is South Africa, even though it's a developing country. But South Africa also has the worlds highest income inequality. In order for any nation to get to Scandinavian-level income inequality, we'd need a more regressive tax structure.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Correct. The U.S. has the most progressive tax system in the world, at least when it comes to developed nations.
No, for the turd time, "the US tax system", total taxation, is proportional. Federal taxation is progressive, state/local is regressive.

In order for any nation to get to Scandinavia level inequality, we'd need a more regressive tax structure.
Wrong, again.....but I'm not even going to bother.
 
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Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Taxation is not theft, it's paying your government bill, just like your electricity bill or clothing bill.
False equilvalence fallacy.

If you don't pay your electricity bill or clothing bill, you do without electricity or new clothes. If you choose, you can make either yourself.

What happens if you don't pay your 'government bill'? They take it anyway! What happens if you stand up and refuse?

Taxes are theft. There is no other way to put it.

If you don't like the fact that the US has a government, then you obviously hate America.
The U.S. government is not the United States. The United States is organized as a federated republic. We have constitutions are various levels of government. We expect those governments to honor those documents.

Most of the current U.S. government is unconstitutional today. There is no authorization whatsoever for the EPA, the NEA, most of the FAA, most of the FCC, the CPSC, most of NOAA, most of NASA, most of the IRS, the BATF, the NSF, and a whole host of other departments. Congress exceeded their authority when they created these departments.

Where in the Constitution of the United States do they have the authority to declare what type of toilet you can buy or what type of light bulb you can use? People often say 'the commerce clause'. The problem is, that is not an authority. It is a reason for the other authorities given. It does not cancel the remainder of the Constitution. The 'commerce clause' gives no additional authority to the federal government of any kind.

This is usually followed by 'the courts said...'. Unfortunately, the courts do not have the authority to change or interpret the Constitution of the United States. They were never given any such authority. They MUST operate UNDER the Constitution, NOT OVER IT.

Too many people never read this important document. They grab snippets out of it (or even parts of snippets) and fixate on just that snippet as if IT were the constitution.

It isn't.

Maybe you can find some governmentless/taxless/capitalistic country to move to.

Despite my complaints about the government here, I am free to speak it here. There ARE people here that still see the vision of what the founding fathers saw when forming this great nation. I will happily VOLUNTEER a sufficient amount of my wealth to fund a government that honors that document. I will fight for it. I will contribute anything I need to defend it. Why? That IS liberty. That IS freedom.

I will NOT voluntarily fund any government that ignores the very document that defines it's very existence.

I pick and choose my battles. I know when I am outgunned. But I will continue to battle on. I see in Trump a desire to return this country back toward it's constitution. ANY movement in that direction, however small, I will support. It is that document that made America great. It is that document that made America the beacon of hope to those worldwide currently living under regimes much more restrictive than ours is, even in it's present state.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Not really. For decades productivity gains were pretty evenly distributed between the various income levels, with the rich and poor getting richer as the economy became more productive. That relationship broke down a few decades ago.

I'd present the data, but you'd just dismiss it out of hand without making any counter argument...

Nervous about presenting data to me? You should be! My standards for data are quite high. They are reasonable for any legitimate data, but I don't just accept a graph or chart of numbers out of hand like you do.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

False equilvalence fallacy.

If you don't pay your electricity bill or clothing bill, you do without electricity or new clothes. If you choose, you can make either yourself.

What happens if you don't pay your 'government bill'? They take it anyway! What happens if you stand up and refuse?

Taxes are theft. There is no other way to put it.


The U.S. government is not the United States. The United States is organized as a federated republic. We have constitutions are various levels of government. We expect those governments to honor those documents.

Most of the current U.S. government is unconstitutional today. There is no authorization whatsoever for the EPA, the NEA, most of the FAA, most of the FCC, the CPSC, most of NOAA, most of NASA, most of the IRS, the BATF, the NSF, and a whole host of other departments. Congress exceeded their authority when they created these departments.

Where in the Constitution of the United States do they have the authority to declare what type of toilet you can buy or what type of light bulb you can use? People often say 'the commerce clause'. The problem is, that is not an authority. It is a reason for the other authorities given. It does not cancel the remainder of the Constitution. The 'commerce clause' gives no additional authority to the federal government of any kind.

This is usually followed by 'the courts said...'. Unfortunately, the courts do not have the authority to change or interpret the Constitution of the United States. They were never given any such authority. They MUST operate UNDER the Constitution, NOT OVER IT.

Too many people never read this important document. They grab snippets out of it (or even parts of snippets) and fixate on just that snippet as if IT were the constitution.

It isn't.



Despite my complaints about the government here, I am free to speak it here. There ARE people here that still see the vision of what the founding fathers saw when forming this great nation. I will happily VOLUNTEER a sufficient amount of my wealth to fund a government that honors that document. I will fight for it. I will contribute anything I need to defend it. Why? That IS liberty. That IS freedom.

I will NOT voluntarily fund any government that ignores the very document that defines it's very existence.

I pick and choose my battles. I know when I am outgunned. But I will continue to battle on. I see in Trump a desire to return this country back toward it's constitution. ANY movement in that direction, however small, I will support. It is that document that made America great. It is that document that made America the beacon of hope to those worldwide currently living under regimes much more restrictive than ours is, even in it's present state.

Nonsense.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Please tell me you're not going to trot out the "sales tax, FICA, property tax" non sequitur. This thread is about the federal deficit, not every cat and dog taxation you can drag up.

Quite right. It is also about how much the federal government spends. Sure, you can talk about taxes, printing money, borrowing money, etc., but it all comes down to how much they are SPENDING.
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

We simply need to reduce the largest spending to have impact, and the largest spending is social subsidies.

For the future, I propose that nobody gets to deduct children born starting the calendar year 2020. families need to plan to their lifestyle income without tax deductions for offspring. It's simple. If you can't afford children, then don't have them. This is one thing that can reduce future expenditures.

Doesn't seem to work for China.

They restricted the number of children you could have by law. They are now facing a situation of retiring workers and not enough to replace them. Oh sure, they broke the Iron Rice Bowl so they don't have to pay for the retirees, but all that did is reduce money velocity to near zero. There are not enough workers contributing to the government to pay for the party anymore. Who's going to foot the bill?

To a lesser degree, the same thing is happening in the United States. The Boomers are retiring. That is a HUGE expense for the government. There are not enough workers in the workforce to pay for it.

What to do? Massive increases on taxes on the workers to pay for this huge expense? Cutting back and breaking the promise to those who already paid into the system? Both?
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Curreny exchange rates are most definitely influenced by government expenditures.

To a degree. They are actually influenced by the Fed, and similar central banks in other nations.

Some places are getting so bad they are offering NEGATIVE interest rates for their money! They are PAYING you to take their money! (Pleeeeze?)

It's even been talked about at the Fed!
 
Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Nothing happen...

oh contraire!

Reganomics. Trickle Down! Tax cuts for the rich and borrow the money to pay for it tripling the national debt a setting a standard for.all republicans to follow, deregulated savings and loans to finance a commercial real estate bubble resulting in a federal bailout after the bust. war on unions and any organized labor. weakened Shurman anti-trust laws resulting in today's monopolies. i could go on about criminal acts and.other things.

the result is really tragic

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86_marginalgrowth.jpg.CROP.original-original.webp
 
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