[W:1422] Federal Deficit Soars

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

But the other part of the equation is ignore, REVENUE!!! When tax are cut, consumer spending increases which boosts corporate profits, excise taxes(gasoline), investment income, along with state and local revenue such as sales taxes. The revenue side is always focused on FIT which also has been shown to increase but the other revenue sources have been ignored

The problem is.. the revenue does not pay for the tax cut.. since revenue growth is slowed..it means that the deficit grows.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand,

we really just need a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, unemployment compensation for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, and Industrial Automation to help with social costs.

Whenever shall the right wing have more than whinery and fallacy to support their right wing inflation fantasy? Obsolete economic technology from last millennium is all the right wing has.

Even the dollar menu won't double.

Automatic stabilization of our economy at that new equilibrium is what we can expect.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

again you have a very skewed perception of reality

bush was better than Obama? bush took us from a balanced federal budget to trillion dollar deficits and a country in the worst recession since the hoover days with a broken global financial system.

Obama brought us out of that bushole. his deficits and subsequent increase in the federal debt truly belong to bush. No to mention the Republican Congress fought him every step of the way

Clinton's economic numbers are better than Reagan's and he raised taxes and balanced the federal budget

That is a lie, why do you continue to perpetuate that lie and never post the Treasury data to support your claim. Your total and complete ignorance of data and history is staggering

Clinton didn't inherit a recession, Reagan did but again results don't resonate with you and are trumped by your biased partisan ignorance

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

The problem is.. the revenue does not pay for the tax cut.. since revenue growth is slowed..it means that the deficit grows.

Since tax cuts aren't an expense there is nothing to pay for. Deficits are created by spending and any revenue reduces the deficits

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

because the debt service this year alone is up well over 100 billion dollars due to interest increases and is now over 500 billion of the 2018 deficit. Reagan was so hated by you because he understood what you don't people keeping more of what they earn benefits the economy and means they need less govt. spending. Reagan won 49 states in 1984 and left us with a peace dividend and a Republican President who along with Clinton squandered it. Interesting how the Reagan economy left us with a GOP President whereas the Obama economy left us with a GOP President. Wonder if you can connect the dots?

Reagan left us with a 2.6 trillion dollar debt on a 5.2 trillion dollar economy which is 50%
Bush left us with a 10.9 trillion dollar debt on a 14.7 trillion dollar economy which is 70%

Obama left us with a 20 trillion dollar debt on an 18.5 trillion dollar economy well over 100%

Tell me which one was more fiscally responsible?

What a glaring omission to not include Clinton in your example. As demonstrated countless times by other posters, your posts and narrative lack credibility.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What a glaring omission to not include Clinton in your example. As demonstrated countless times by other posters, your posts and narrative lack credibility.

Clinton 1.4 trillion leaving us with a 5.7 trillion dollar debt on a 10 trillion dollar economy or 57%. Point was that Obama generated more debt than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined. Reagan inherited a terrible recession just like Obama however Reagan entered with a country going into a double dip whereas Obama inherited an economy coming out of recession. My credibility is intact, yours however doesn't exist

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Clinton 1.4 trillion leaving us with a 5.7 trillion dollar debt on a 10 trillion dollar economy or 57%. Point was that Obama generated more debt than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined. Reagan inherited a terrible recession just like Obama however Reagan entered with a country going into a double dip whereas Obama inherited an economy coming out of recession. My credibility is intact, yours however doesn't exist

There you go again, in the manner of an Archie Bunker character, claiming credibility by self-proclamation. You refuse to accept the widespread recognition you lack credibility. Carry on. None of us expect anything different from you.

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Since tax cuts aren't an expense there is nothing to pay for. Deficits are created by spending and any revenue reduces the deficits

Sir.. you need to read your own post.. you just acknowledge that revenue reduces the deficit.

So if there is less revenue as a percentage of GDP.. and spending remains the same as a percentage of GDP.. then deficits will grow.

Get that.. ? Spending as a percentage of GDP remains the same..

Revenue as a percentage of GDP lowers.. deficits can grow. (assuming you are already in a deficit situation)

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Since tax cuts aren't an expense there is nothing to pay for. Deficits are created by spending and any revenue reduces the deficits

deficits are created by tax cut economics being Worthless and not covering spending.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Sir.. you need to read your own post.. you just acknowledge that revenue reduces the deficit.

So if there is less revenue as a percentage of GDP.. and spending remains the same as a percentage of GDP.. then deficits will grow.

Get that.. ? Spending as a percentage of GDP remains the same..

Revenue as a percentage of GDP lowers.. deficits can grow. (assuming you are already in a deficit situation)

Your problem is you are too stubborn to admit that FIT revenue wasn't reduced but rather grew and the higher FIT revenue created lower deficits. Spending as a percent of GDP is just like Revenue as a percentage of GDP, irrelevant!! Debt service is paid on the raw data not the percentage

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Your problem is you are too stubborn to admit that FIT revenue wasn't reduced but rather grew and the higher FIT revenue created lower deficits. Spending as a percent of GDP is just like Revenue as a percentage of GDP, irrelevant!! Debt service is paid on the raw data not the percentage

You aren't capable of understanding that even though FIT grew.. it grew at a LOWER rate than it had.. which means that even if the spending rate stays the same.. deficts will grow.

Spending as a percentage of GDP and Revenue as a percentage of GDP are DEFINITELY not irrelevant. They are MORE relevant.. when you consider the accounting. When the government adds to the deficit.. the economy grows..GDP must increase.

You don't seem to understand that relationship.

If GDP increases.. then revenues would increase.

According to you then.. We should just deficit spend.. and the more we deficit spend.. then revenue will increase and the deficit will be lower!!!! because as you said.. revenue increases.. reduce the deficit....!!!!

Honestly.. you are either being intentionally obtuse.. or you.. well.. never mind

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

You aren't capable of understanding that even though FIT grew.. it grew at a LOWER rate than it had.. which means that even if the spending rate stays the same.. deficts will grow.

Spending as a percentage of GDP and Revenue as a percentage of GDP are DEFINITELY not irrelevant. They are MORE relevant.. when you consider the accounting. When the government adds to the deficit.. the economy grows..GDP must increase.

You don't seem to understand that relationship.

If GDP increases.. then revenues would increase.

According to you then.. We should just deficit spend.. and the more we deficit spend.. then revenue will increase and the deficit will be lower!!!! because as you said.. revenue increases.. reduce the deficit....!!!!

Honestly.. you are either being intentionally obtuse.. or you.. well.. never mind

Absolutely stunning that you continue to promote this false rhetoric. Reagan cut taxes 3 years in a row and that is federal income taxes and yet grew federal income tax revenue over 68%. Those are treasury data numbers. You don't like it take it up with the treasury and if you think that the fit Revenue would have grown and we had would have created 17 million jobs without the tax cuts you can't prove it

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[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Absolutely stunning that you continue to promote this false rhetoric. Reagan cut taxes 3 years in a row and that is federal income taxes and yet grew federal income tax revenue over 68%. Those are treasury data numbers. You don't like it take it up with the treasury and if you think that the fit Revenue would have grown and we had would have created 17 million jobs without the tax cuts you can't prove it

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What false rhetoric.?

Go ahead and show us where I am wrong.

When the government spends money in deficit spending.. that money enters the economy and increases GDP.

that means the economy increases.

WHEN the economy grows.. INCOME TAX REVENUE WILL INCREASE.

So two things happened.. the deficit grows.. and income tax revenues INCREASE.. The "treasury data numbers".. will show a growth in revenue. and yet the deficit grew.

You don't seem understand as to why that happens. .

So you go ahead and you explain to me how what I JUST WROTE.. is wrong.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

What false rhetoric.?

Go ahead and show us where I am wrong.

When the government spends money in deficit spending.. that money enters the economy and increases GDP.

that means the economy increases.

WHEN the economy grows.. INCOME TAX REVENUE WILL INCREASE.

So two things happened.. the deficit grows.. and income tax revenues INCREASE.. The "treasury data numbers".. will show a growth in revenue. and yet the deficit grew.

You don't seem understand as to why that happens. .

So you go ahead and you explain to me how what I JUST WROTE.. is wrong.

It does seem that you don't understand the term spending nor do you understand how to use Treasury data to show even raw data. Rather sad that you represent the education system in Tenn. Spending causes debt, don't spend and you have no debt but to blame people keeping more of what they earn as a cause for the govt. to spend money is what liberals do. Change your lean.

You want to believe that with a double dip recession that Reagan inherited that we would have had the same economic activity and job creation without the tax cuts, PROVE IT!!

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

It does seem that you don't understand the term spending nor do you understand how to use Treasury data to show even raw data. Rather sad that you represent the education system in Tenn. Spending causes debt, don't spend and you have no debt but to blame people keeping more of what they earn as a cause for the govt. to spend money is what liberals do. Change your lean.

You want to believe that with a double dip recession that Reagan inherited that we would have had the same economic activity and job creation without the tax cuts, PROVE IT!!

Again... HERE IS YOUR CHANCE.

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

Please explain to us all.. why my understanding that the RAW DATA REVENUE.. will increase.. but the deficit still increase.. is wrong.

 

[rickc]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Again... HERE IS YOUR CHANCE.

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

Please explain to us all.. why my understanding that the RAW DATA REVENUE.. will increase.. but the deficit still increase.. is wrong.

conservative is a broken record. he has no interest in the correct interpretation of the data. only what he has heard from his right wing commentators. and righties are always complaining about fake news! the only listen to right wing propaganda. it should be illegal to brainwash those with weak IQ'S. Taking advantage of the poor dumb azzes.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Again... HERE IS YOUR CHANCE.

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

Please explain to us all.. why my understanding that the RAW DATA REVENUE.. will increase.. but the deficit still increase.. is wrong.

Look, this is truly a waste of time, you are too partisan, too biased and totally ignorant of economics as well as the budget of the U.S. I posted the actual Reagan results and you countered with your opinion. Opinions never win debates, never win court cases and will never pay the bills. You lost get over it

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

conservative is a broken record. he has no interest in the correct interpretation of the data. only what he has heard from his right wing commentators. and righties are always complaining about fake news! the only listen to right wing propaganda. it should be illegal to brainwash those with weak IQ'S. Taking advantage of the poor dumb azzes.

Yep. but.. I think I stick it through because I am a real conservative.. while he.. makes us look bad because he is a right wing liberal. I am kind of hopeful that after time.. people will see that he is not conservative.. but actually right wing liberal. (and who knows.. maybe he will realize it and be a less proliferative poster).

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Look, this is truly a waste of time, you are too partisan, too biased and totally ignorant of economics as well as the budget of the U.S. I posted the actual Reagan results and you countered with your opinion. Opinions never win debates, never win court cases and will never pay the bills. You lost get over it

sooooo.. in other words.. you are not able to refute anything that I said..

Yep.. you posted Reagans raw data.. and I didn't counter with "opinion".. I countered with hard facts regarding the validity of using that raw data.. and the errors that you were making. I then posted a number of research articles that looked at Reagan's results and its effect on the deficit and linked to those research articles..

The reality here Con.. is that you need to look in the mirror when you say this:

Opinions never win debates, never win court cases and will never pay the bills. You lost get over it

Because it represents your arguments.. not mine.

But hey.. here is another chance...

Just explain to us all why...

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

see,... i am just trying to help you understand a concept here Con. You need to understand why your raw data.. your "treasury data".. is not valid to the discussion and why your assumptions on that raw data are wrong.

IF you can counter with something other than complaints that "you are too partisan to biased etc"..

PLEASE then.. explain exactly why what I said regarding the deficit, GDP And revenue is wrong.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

sooooo.. in other words.. you are not able to refute anything that I said..

Yep.. you posted Reagans raw data.. and I didn't counter with "opinion".. I countered with hard facts regarding the validity of using that raw data.. and the errors that you were making. I then posted a number of research articles that looked at Reagan's results and its effect on the deficit and linked to those research articles..

The reality here Con.. is that you need to look in the mirror when you say this:

Because it represents your arguments.. not mine.

But hey.. here is another chance...

Just explain to us all why...



see,... i am just trying to help you understand a concept here Con. You need to understand why your raw data.. your "treasury data".. is not valid to the discussion and why your assumptions on that raw data are wrong.

IF you can counter with something other than complaints that "you are too partisan to biased etc"..

PLEASE then.. explain exactly why what I said regarding the deficit, GDP And revenue is wrong.

Debt service is paid on raw data not opinions or projected data, Reagan grew FIT revenue over 68% and that increase in revenue actually reduced the deficit but Congress appropriates the money and with more revenue coming in were like kids in a candy store and deficit spent in spite of Reagan setting records for vetos.

FIT revenue as a % of GDP is irrelevant and raw data regarding revenue and debt are all that matters. So you believe the govt. spending always goes into the economy? Obama proved that statement totally and completely false

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Debt service is paid on raw data not opinions or projected data,

Well first Conservative.. this is again.. the what third time or fourth? that you have avoided my challenge to you to explain why what I have said is wrong.

but.. lets just think about what you just said.. about "debt service". First.. debt service is paid on the prior deficit. That means.. that IF we deficit spend to pay that debt service.. It ADDS to the deficit.. not reduce it.


but again..

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

See.. if you cannot counter that argument Con.. it shows that FIT as a percentage of GDP IS relevant.

So you believe the govt. spending always goes into the economy?

Domestic spending? Sure. As long as we are talking about spending and not including tax cuts or credits as "spending".

but yeah.. when the government spends on Medicare and social security for you.. yes.. it goes into the economy. Even if you turn around and put that money into the bank Con.. it does allow the bank to have reserves that allows it to lend money to people that use it for houses, or businesses etc.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Well first Conservative.. this is again.. the what third time or fourth? that you have avoided my challenge to you to explain why what I have said is wrong.

but.. lets just think about what you just said.. about "debt service". First.. debt service is paid on the prior deficit. That means.. that IF we deficit spend to pay that debt service.. It ADDS to the deficit.. not reduce it.


but again..

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

See.. if you cannot counter that argument Con.. it shows that FIT as a percentage of GDP IS relevant.



Domestic spending? Sure. As long as we are talking about spending and not including tax cuts or credits as "spending".

but yeah.. when the government spends on Medicare and social security for you.. yes.. it goes into the economy. Even if you turn around and put that money into the bank Con.. it does allow the bank to have reserves that allows it to lend money to people that use it for houses, or businesses etc.

As usual and right on que, tax cuts are an expense and have to be paid for, wow, economics and accounting ignorance.

As usual, govt. is giving me SS and Medicare, wrong, I paid for Medicare and SS and was forced to do it.

Another liberal ignorant statement, Reagan Federal Income Tax cuts actually cut Federal Income Tax revenue, FALSE, Reagan FIT cuts led to a 68% increase in FIT revenue

Another liberal ignorant statement, Without the tax cuts in this recession consumers would have still increased the GDP over double and 17 million jobs would have been created, stunning ignorance of personal behavior and overly optimistic economic GDP growth predictions.

Want to keep showing poor understanding of human behavior and economics/accounting, keep posting

 

[Kushinator]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Yep. but.. I think I stick it through because I am a real conservative.. while he.. makes us look bad because he is a right wing liberal. I am kind of hopeful that after time.. people will see that he is not conservative.. but actually right wing liberal. (and who knows.. maybe he will realize it and be a less proliferative poster).

Nobody really cares about what conservative says or thinks. He is most likely the least respected person on this entire forum.

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

As usual and right on que, tax cuts are an expense and have to be paid for, wow, economics and accounting ignorance.

/QUOTE]

Well first Con... yet again.. your post has nothing to do with what I posted. Nothing. So.. lets try yet again:

So.. I just stated.., that when the government increases deficit spending.. that money goes into the economy.. and that increases the GDP.

That increase in GDP.. means that FIT revenue to the federal government will INCREASE... the raw data will show an increase in FIT revenue..

YET.. the deficit grew.. despite having more FIT revenue.

So you go ahead and tell me what what I said is WRONG. Show us your economic chops here conservative.

See.. i am not going to let you divert the conversation Conservative. You go ahead and point out exactly why .. what I said above is wrong.

Now to the rest:




Hmm.. well Con.. whenever you can provide ANY post where I stated explicitly that "tax cuts are an expense".. well then you might have something.. but of course.. I never have said that.

What I have said.. and whats true.. is that a tax cut can increase the deficit.. And therefore.. if you don't want to increase the debt and deficit.. a tax cut needs to pay for itself.

As usual, govt. is giving me SS and Medicare, wrong, I paid for Medicare and SS and was forced to do it.

Yeah.. most likely false for you.. and definitely false for your generation. Your generation did not "pay for your medicare and social security". Its running out of money because you didn;t put enough in.. and now.. my generation and my sons are going to get stuck footing your bills. You are welcome.

Another liberal ignorant statement, Reagan Federal Income Tax cuts actually cut Federal Income Tax revenue, FALSE, Reagan FIT cuts led to a 68% increase in FIT revenue

Well.. you can't make the statement that it increased the revenue.. because a growing economy would do that regardless of a tax cut.. so would increase government deficit spending.. both of those things would increase FIT revenue. As has been pointed out.
However, what you have been instructed in.. is that Reagans tax cuts deepened the deficit because it decreased the percentage of tax collected vs GDP. which is a valid statistic.. while raw FIT revenue is not. And I provided the statistics and the link to prove it.

Without the tax cuts in this recession consumers would have still increased the GDP over double and 17 million jobs would have been created, stunning ignorance of personal behavior and overly optimistic economic GDP growth predictions.

Well. not sure what you mean about "this recession". You mean Reagans.. or the one we just went through. During Reagans time.. yeah.. the economy would have come back to recession without the tax cuts because the recession was caused by an artificial increase in rates caused by the FED. When that changed.. the economy rebounded.

In the last recession.... it was caused by the bursting of the housing/mortgage bubble.. and the Bush and Obama tax cuts.. helped stabilize the economy and kept money flowing.. it can be credited for keeping the economy from deepening into a depression. And giving the economy time to recover. BUT the real reason for us getting out of recession is the economy recovering.. See... as a real conservative.. I understand that the economy is a lot bigger than the government or one president. You sir.. as a liberal. think that government action is the be all end all of the economy. That's why you think government action.. and big government is responsible for the economy.

 

[jaeger19]

Re: Federal Deficit Soars

Nobody really cares about what conservative says or thinks. He is most likely the least respected person on this entire forum.

No doubt.. but because he calls himself a conservative.. and even uses the name "CONSERVATIVE".. people confuse his premises as actually being conservative.. when they are not.

You can't be fiscally responsible.. and not care about the effect of tax cuts on debt and deficit...