[W:109] If White Conservatives Loved All People The Way They Do Embryos

[smallvoice]

People who oppose abortion SHOULD oppose killing them after birth. However, ask them to actually do anythimg to help these children and it seems they don't.

You don't know very much do you? It "seems" you are ignorant of the facts.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Do you honestly think that there is no one gaming the system? I can tell you from personal experience along with knowing many others who have been landlords, public school teachers, GED teachers, etc., that many young women in inner cities absolutely see a child as a source of income! Here are a couple of anecdotal accounts. One friend of mine in an inner city school had a 19 year old student pregnant with her third child! Now why did she do that you ask? To get a larger place to live. I had a aunt who taught GED classes and most of her students were young teenage women on welfare. Guess what they told her? Give up? "Having babies gets me free stuff!" There are plenty more accounts like that. Furthermore, birth statistics in the US are bearing this out as well. Go look online, nearly 50% of births in the US today are from women on Medicaid, hence who are living in or near poverty levels!

If a woman is on assistance and has more children, she should not get more money. Unless she agrees to a tubal ligation (after the first one born on welfare, not subsequent ones - because then she'd have a few more to get more money).

 

[smallvoice]

So why are they usually war supporters? Conservatives want wars and liberals know better than to kill innocent civilians who did nothing to us.

"liberals know better"? That's the biggest line of BS posted here.

 

[smallvoice]

I didn't read much past the racist thread title.

Good choice! There's not much beyond the racist title thread...

 

[Phys251]

I've never heard of someone saying that taking one dime of welfare is cheating the system.

Fox "News" rants about welfare recipients all the time. They routinely shame people who receive welfare, which is the very thing needed to reduce abortions.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Good choice! There's not much beyond the racist title thread...

There usually isn't with these racist liberals. They haven't changed much since their civil war days of fighting for slavery. The racist genes were obviously passed down through the generations.

 

[RedAkston]

Fox "News" rants about welfare recipients all the time. They routinely shame people who receive welfare, which is the very thing needed to reduce abortions.

I'll admit that I don't watch Fox News all that often. Perhaps you could point to some examples?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

People can spend their own money on whatever they want. They aren't obligated to give it away.

That is why we need taxes to help poor people. Without an obligation, many rich people would refuse to even consider helping the poor for selfish reasons.

 

[RedAkston]

That is why we need taxes to help poor people. Without an obligation, many rich people would refuse to even consider helping the poor for selfish reasons.

The rich pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes collected. They create the jobs. They invest which creates growth. Why would anyone want to punish those helping the economy and the poor?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

The rich pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes collected. They create the jobs. They invest which creates growth. Why would anyone want to punish those helping the economy and the poor?

When did I say rich people should be punished? All I am talking about is their selfish attitude that they should keep their own money while the poor never have enough.

 

[Josie]

When did I say rich people should be punished? All I am talking about is their selfish attitude that they should keep their own money while the poor never have enough.

Why do you spend money on things you don't need?

 

[Cynical]

There has been only one documented study on the % of people who cheat while on welfare: the Orange County Study. That study found about 10% of people on welfare cheated to a criminal level. Another 10% cheated in small non-prosecutable amounts by not reporting occasional additional paying jobs.

It is not the poor that are the problem. The fraud of medical and pharmaceutical corporation and individual doctors far out weighs the fraud of the poor Medicaid & Medicare Criminal Enforcement Actions | Medicare and Medicaid Fraud | Office of Inspector General | U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

I was talking about Welfare use not Medicare/Medicaid fraud.

 

[notquiteright]

The rich pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes collected. They create the jobs. They invest which creates growth. Why would anyone want to punish those helping the economy and the poor?

The rich hold the overwhelming majority of the wealth privately owned. Consumer demand creates jobs. If the Rich's investment created 'growth' why is manufacturing leaving and the stock market rising which more and more doesn't invest in 'growth' outside Wall St???

Why would anyone worry about those who good times or bad continue to amass their fortunes no matter what happens to the other 99%? eace

 

[weaver2]

Fraud is fraud, it's bad. I can see the correlation with government being involved and fraud, can you?

What do you mean "correlation with government being involved and fraud". Are you trying to say that the government is at fault because it created programs and the money has enticed people like Rick Scott to steal from the government? So, Rick Scott is actually the victim of enticement to commit theft.

 

[RedAkston]

When did I say rich people should be punished? All I am talking about is their selfish attitude that they should keep their own money while the poor never have enough.

So you aren't proposing new taxes or tax increases on the rich?

 

[smallvoice]

When did I say rich people should be punished? All I am talking about is their selfish attitude that they should keep their own money while the poor never have enough.

There is NOTHING selfish about doing what you want with what you earn. The liberals' problem is they want to do something with the money someone else earned. They are welcome to do whatever they want with what they earn. The amount people earn has NOTHING to do with it, except in liberals' arbitrary minds. Then THEY get to decide how much of other peoples' money they want to give away.

 

[Cynical]

There has been only one documented study on the % of people who cheat while on welfare: the Orange County Study. That study found about 10% of people on welfare cheated to a criminal level. Another 10% cheated in small non-prosecutable amounts by not reporting occasional additional paying jobs.

It is not the poor that are the problem. The fraud of medical and pharmaceutical corporation and individual doctors far out weighs the fraud of the poor Medicaid & Medicare Criminal Enforcement Actions | Medicare and Medicaid Fraud | Office of Inspector General | U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Also what I was talking about was not fraud. The examples I discussed were not people doing anything illegal but rather taking advantage of a system that rewards irresponsible behavior. The fact is in today's type of world and economic reality a person who is living in poverty and has a child is - to put it nicely - is not doing that child any favors.

 

[weaver2]

I was talking about Welfare use not Medicare/Medicaid fraud.

And the Orange County Study was about welfare not Medicare or Medicaid, but those are taxpayer supported programs that corporations and doctors are stealing from. My point is that yes one study has proven that there is welfare fraud but it is tiny compared to corporate and medical profession fraud, yet it is the poor that get blamed for 100% of the fraud committed against government.

 

[RedAkston]

The rich hold the overwhelming majority of the wealth privately owned. Consumer demand creates jobs. If the Rich's investment created 'growth' why is manufacturing leaving and the stock market rising which more and more doesn't invest in 'growth' outside Wall St???

Why would anyone worry about those who good times or bad continue to amass their fortunes no matter what happens to the other 99%? eace

Who would be holding thr overwhelming majority of the wealth privately owned if it wasn't the rich? Would it be different rich people? :roll:

Manufacturing has been leaving for a couple of decades now. The high cost of union labor has been the driving force behind this trend.

So you're mad that the ones who are the most successful among us are "rich"? This all sounds like envy to me.

And in case you haven't been paying attention (and you clearly haven't), the "other 99%" is doing far better than they were just a decade ago, let alone 3 years ago. Success requires hard work and dedication. Not everyone is going to be rich and not everyone is going to be poor. You can't legislate or tax your way to prosperity for all, it just isn't possible. The war on poverty has been nothing short of a miserable and expensive failure.

 

[RedAkston]

...yet it is the poor that get blamed for 100% of the fraud committed against government.

Who exactly is claiming this?

 

[notquiteright]

Who would be holding thr overwhelming majority of the wealth privately owned if it wasn't the rich? Would it be different rich people. Manufacturing has been leaving for a couple of decades now. The high cost of union labor has been the driving force behind this trend. So you're mad that the ones who are the most successful among us are "rich"? This all sounds like envy to me. And in case you haven't been paying attention (and you clearly haven't), the "other 99%" is doing far better than they were just a decade ago, let alone 3 years ago. Success requires hard work and dedication. Not everyone is going to be rich and not everyone is going to be poor. You can't legislate or tax your way to prosperity for all, it just isn't possible. The war on poverty has been nothing short of a miserable and expensive failure.

Why does someone have to replace someone??? My point was the rich pay so much in taxes because they have so much... really simple... :roll:

Ummm the high cost of labor???? Then why are the Republican'ts claiming they can give away the tax store to corporations to keep them?? Why do the Republican'ts whine about unfair subsidies??? It's a bit more complicated than- UNIONS BAD.... :roll:

Not envious of anyone, more like why do the rich get to rig the game to make sure they stay rich??? Why cut the taxes during a time of prosperity??? Are the super rich creating any jobs, or piling more money in funds???

If all success required was hard work and dedication then we would be up to our necks in millionaires. Every heard of crony capitalism??? You don't get out much!

Being 'better off' is a new and perverse play on trickle down. I don't claim we can tax our way to prosperity but we sure aren't doing it now, while the upper .5% get richer our nation is heading to a terminal dive in red ink.

You want to make this some 3rd grade civic lesson simple. But the fact still remains we run red ink during prosperity and millions work very hard and are very dedicated but will never 'get rich' so simple slogans aren't reality... eace

 

[weaver2]

..yet it is the poor that get blamed for 100% of the fraud committed against government.

Who exactly is claiming this?

These posts all blame the poor for fraud against the government. Not a one is blaming the real perpetrators of fraud, corporations and the wealthy


As long as those living in poverty have many children there will always be plenty of poverty.

As long as the government tax payers continue to provide an unending safety net there will always be a certain percentage that will take advantage.

Shameful and contemptible though it is, there is a certain percentage of those who are the beneficiaries of charity who lie and try to game the system too.

Agreed that this is part of human nature. But it seems particularly egregious to try to cheat those charities who are trying to serve the poorest of the poor. Of course, I also don't understand those who steal from dollar stores. I mean, why not shoplift from high-end stores?

I have no issue with someone taking a hand out to help them get back on their feet, but those who do nothing to better themselves and simply take advantage of the system are the issue. If you can't see that we have far too many that take advantage, well that's your problem.

Do you honestly think that there is no one gaming the system? I can tell you from personal experience along with knowing many others who have been landlords, public school teachers, GED teachers, etc., that many young women in inner cities absolutely see a child as a source of income!

Not one mention of Rick Scott's Hospital Corporation of America, the Sackler family's Purdue Pharma of any of the following that have either committed direct fraud against the government or indirectly by forcing a bail out at tax payer expense or by creating some harm to the public that the government only can address and clean up. Here are just a few of those corporations:
Arthur Anderson
DMZ
Johnson and Johnson
Pfizer
Bear Sterns
Haliburton
Harken Energy
Merck Medical

Not a single poor person among that list

 

[Peter King]

Who would be holding thr overwhelming majority of the wealth privately owned if it wasn't the rich? Would it be different rich people? :roll:

Manufacturing has been leaving for a couple of decades now. The high cost of union labor has been the driving force behind this trend.

So you're mad that the ones who are the most successful among us are "rich"? This all sounds like envy to me.

And in case you haven't been paying attention (and you clearly haven't), the "other 99%" is doing far better than they were just a decade ago, let alone 3 years ago. Success requires hard work and dedication. Not everyone is going to be rich and not everyone is going to be poor. You can't legislate or tax your way to prosperity for all, it just isn't possible. The war on poverty has been nothing short of a miserable and expensive failure.

Well you can start with not allowing some companies to pay zero taxes. If a company wants to produce or sell in the US, that company has to pay taxes in the US. Only way a company can get lower taxes if they invest more in the US.

And I think that paying more taxes if someone can see where the taxes are going too (rather than just in the military) they would be more prepared to pay a bit more taxes. No country should put their taxes at 70%, that is ludicrous IMHO.

More money for roads, infrastructure, training better employable students, etc. etc. etc.

Poverty is too big a problem in the US, people having no financial security will make people making choices conservatives balk at (abortion) or have children, get into a life or crime which will lead to children going into foster care costing the government even more money.

And it is not the cost of employment that makes companies leave because that would happen no matter what. No matter how much you stifle wages you can never keep simple work companies in the US because it just costs too much even at this level. Even if you would lower wages it will still happen.

But in Europe it is possible to have good employment, people being able to pay for everything on ONE wage and still have reasonable taxation/good benefits from their bosses and the government. I do not know what the problem is in the US but it is not necessarily the wages.

 

[RedAkston]

..yet it is the poor that get blamed for 100% of the fraud committed against government.

I certainly haven't and while I haven't read every post in this thread, this isn't an opinion that I've heard in the media or from anyone that I personally know.

These posts all blame the poor for fraud against the government. Not a one is blaming the real perpetrators of fraud, corporations and the wealthy.

As I stated previously, in so many words, fraud is bad, it doesn't matter who is committing it. Tax fraud, welfare fraud, corporate fraud - you won't see too many people say otherwise.

Shameful and contemptible though it is, there is a certain percentage of those who are the beneficiaries of charity who lie and try to game the system too.

Agreed that this is part of human nature. But it seems particularly egregious to try to cheat those charities who are trying to serve the poorest of the poor. Of course, I also don't understand those who steal from dollar stores. I mean, why not shoplift from high-end stores?

Why do liberals/progressives target or pass bans on charity then? The charities they are going after are the ones actually helping the poorest of the poor.

Not one mention of Rick Scott's Hospital Corporation of America, the Sackler family's Purdue Pharma of any of the following that have either committed direct fraud against the government or indirectly by forcing a bail out at tax payer expense or by creating some harm to the public that the government only can address and clean up. Here are just a few of those corporations:
Arthur Anderson
DMZ
Johnson and Johnson
Pfizer
Bear Sterns
Haliburton
Harken Energy
Merck Medical

Not a single poor person among that list

If you'll read what I wrote, I didn't exactly say that Rick Scott is a good person. He's got more than a few morally bankrupt actions in his past.

As to corporations paying zero taxes, there's an easy fix for this as well as our broken tax system, it's called a flat tax. There are far too many loopholes in our current system and its impossible to fix the system as it is now. Set a flat tax rate based on income and eliminate all the loopholes and deductions. This will virtually eliminate tax fraud and put a stop to companies like GE making billions and not paying a penny in taxes because it's cheaper for them to hire accountants and lawyers to take advantage of every loophole in a ridiculously out of control tax system.

 

[RedAkston]

Well you can start with not allowing some companies to pay zero taxes. If a company wants to produce or sell in the US, that company has to pay taxes in the US. Only way a company can get lower taxes if they invest more in the US.

And I think that paying more taxes if someone can see where the taxes are going too (rather than just in the military) they would be more prepared to pay a bit more taxes. No country should put their taxes at 70%, that is ludicrous IMHO.

More money for roads, infrastructure, training better employable students, etc. etc. etc.

See my previous response to another poster concerning the tax system.

Poverty is too big a problem in the US, people having no financial security will make people making choices conservatives balk at (abortion) or have children, get into a life or crime which will lead to children going into foster care costing the government even more money.

And it is not the cost of employment that makes companies leave because that would happen no matter what. No matter how much you stifle wages you can never keep simple work companies in the US because it just costs too much even at this level. Even if you would lower wages it will still happen.

But in Europe it is possible to have good employment, people being able to pay for everything on ONE wage and still have reasonable taxation/good benefits from their bosses and the government. I do not know what the problem is in the US but it is not necessarily the wages.

The poverty line in the US is 20 times that of most of the rest of the world. Our poor have far more than the poor in most other countries.

The cost of living in the US is what is completely out of hand IMO. I live in one of the wealthiest parts of the US, and have for the past 2.5 years. But I came from a part of the US that isn't anywhere near this wealthy. Housing prices are ridiculous most everywhere and they're downright absurd where I live. If something doesn't change, were headed for another housing crisis I'm afraid, only this time it won't be the fault of the dems. I could be wrong, but its insane the percentage of income that people spend on housing and this hurts the poor and middle class far more than it does the wealthy.

There isn't a perfect solution to all of our problems, but there are ideas out there (such as the flat tax) that will even the playing field more than it is now. Our system isn't perfect, but it's better than most.