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W:1083,1531:2983:3137]******Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs

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re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

You keep accusing me of having a manifesto. Funny thing is, I don't.

sorry eorhn, you posted it several times and you follow it to the letter. And your manifesto wont let you apologize for the laughable and absurd "loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans". Hey I know, if you're positive you don't have a manifesto, lets discuss the impact on mortgage quality after Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending. it sure seems like the quality of mortgages Fannie mae bought dropped off a cliff in 2005. Hey that lines up perfectly with the documented timeframe of the Bush mortgage Bubble.

fnma.webp
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

sorry eorhn, you posted it several times and you follow it to the letter. And your manifesto wont let you apologize for the laughable and absurd "loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans". Hey I know, if you're positive you don't have a manifesto, lets discuss the impact on mortgage quality after Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending. it sure seems like the quality of mortgages Fannie mae bought dropped off a cliff in 2005. Hey that lines up perfectly with the documented timeframe of the Bush mortgage Bubble.

View attachment 67168513

"loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans" is not something I've ever said, so you can stop attributing it to me, nor your claim that I support it, which I don't. Attributing that to me is just dishonest. Since I never said, I don't feel particularly moved to apologize for it.

The fact of the matter is that unqualified borrowers (regardless of race, color or creed) leads to toxic loans. Full stop. Next step, more unqualified people were originated mortgages, some of which was at the behest of Clinton and his overt regulator agency investigation threats to the banking and mortgage industries. And yes, early in the Bush administration, that which you want to lend your sole and exclusive attention to, as well.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

Freddie Mac Jumps into Subprime Mortgages - American Banker 175th Year Flashback Article - American Banker 175th Year Flashback

" Freddie Mac is diving into subprime lending, ending months of speculation over how deeply the agency would go into the burgeoning market.

Freddie Mac and its rival, Fannie Mae, outlined their approaches to lending to tarnished borrowers at the Mortgage Bankers Association's annual meeting Tuesday in New York. Their participation could accelerate growth in a sector that has become a new frontier for many lenders and, ultimately, could bring rates down for borrowers.

Chairman Leland C. Brendsel said Freddie will begin buying lower-quality loans over the coming year and proceed further down the credit spectrum in 1999. "We will buy all the loans we can that meet our parameters and can be priced profitably.

Freddie Mac will deal with mainstream lenders as well as companies that have traditionally offered subprime products, he said."


http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/brd/12Bunce.pdf

“From 1993 to 1998, the number of subprime refinance increased tenfold."

Fannie & Freddie: let the fingerpointing begin!

Fannie Mae Chairman and [CEO] Franklin Raines told mortgage bankers in San Francisco that his company’s lender-customers " need to learn the best from the subprime market and bring the best from the prime market into [the subprime market].’ He offered praise for nonprime lenders that, he said, ''are some of the best marketers in financial services.'' We have to push products and opportunities to people who have lesser credit quality,” he said.

“Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements."


http://research.stlouisfed.org/conferences/gse/White.pdf

" The government cannot simply default on the GSE debt with the intention of passing losses onto creditors. About 50% of this debt is held by financial institutions and about 20% by foreign investors, who also own the majority of government debt. Due to their size and interconnectedness, the GSEs cannot simply be unwound in the ways that have been successful for smaller financial firms. We are dealing with $3.5 trillion mortgage guarantees, a $1.7 trillion mortgage portfolio, and a $2.2 trillion position in derivatives. Not only does the unwinding from the GSEs have to be handled well, the Federal Reserve also has to plan its own exit from the $1.5 trillion position of GSE debt and GSE-backed securities that it accumulated as part of the rescue package for the economy."

Fannie and Freddie, as corrupt as the day is long.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

"loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans" is not something I've ever said, so you can stop attributing it to me, nor your claim that I support it, which I don't. Attributing that to me is just dishonest. Since I never said, I don't feel particularly moved to apologize for it.

Here's where you said it. Of course like all cons you had to "torture" the facts to make a point but you said it. Redlining is when you deny loans to qualified buyers based on location. You laughably equated enforcing rules against redlining as "making loans to minorities groups, qualified or unqualified."

Given example is clear that banks have been under threat from various administration's DOJ should they not be lending to minority groups, qualified or unqualified, and therefore driving down the lending standards. In this instance under the guise of alleged 'redlining'. Regardless, the result is greater potential risk for more toxic mortgages.

Read it real slow eorhn: "lending to minority groups, qualified or unqualified, and therefore driving down the lending standards." Those are the ignorant things people say when they are deperate attempt to find something other than bush policies causing the Bush Mortgage bubble. Again eohrn, redlining is when banks denied loans to qualified buyers because of location.

The fact of the matter is that unqualified borrowers (regardless of race, color or creed) leads to toxic loans. Full stop. Next step, more unqualified people were originated mortgages, some of which was at the behest of Clinton and his overt regulator agency investigation threats to the banking and mortgage industries. And yes, early in the Bush administration, that which you want to lend your sole and exclusive attention to, as well.

No administration forced banks to lend to unqualified minorities. That's just the lying claims cons have to post to dispute the facts. And the funny thing is eohrn not only is your empty factless rhetoric completely false, it still doesn't explain why the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. mmmm, why did No Doc loans shoot up 1000% starting in 2004 to over 50% of all mortgages in 2006? Oh that's right your manifesto doesn't allow you to answer questions.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

Here's where you said it. Of course like all cons you had to "torture" the facts to make a point but you said it. Redlining is when you deny loans to qualified buyers based on location. You laughably equated enforcing rules against redlining as "making loans to minorities groups, qualified or unqualified."



Read it real slow eorhn: "lending to minority groups, qualified or unqualified, and therefore driving down the lending standards." Those are the ignorant things people say when they are deperate attempt to find something other than bush policies causing the Bush Mortgage bubble. Again eohrn, redlining is when banks denied loans to qualified buyers because of location.



No administration forced banks to lend to unqualified minorities. That's just the lying claims cons have to post to dispute the facts. And the funny thing is eohrn not only is your empty factless rhetoric completely false, it still doesn't explain why the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. mmmm, why did No Doc loans shoot up 1000% starting in 2004 to over 50% of all mortgages in 2006? Oh that's right your manifesto doesn't allow you to answer questions.

" No administration forced banks to lend to unqualified minorities." Really? I think perhaps you may need to revise that position.
At President Clinton’s direction, no fewer than 10 federal agencies issued a chilling ultimatum to banks and mortgage lenders to ease credit for lower-income minorities or face investigations for lending discrimination and suffer the related adverse publicity. They also were threatened with denial of access to the all-important secondary mortgage market and stiff fines, along with other penalties.

The threat was codified in a 20-page “Policy Statement on Discrimination in Lending” and entered into the Federal Register on April 15, 1994, by the Interagency Task Force on Fair Lending. Clinton set up the little-known body to coordinate an unprecedented crackdown on alleged bank redlining.

The edict — completely overlooked by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission and the mainstream media — was signed by then-HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, Attorney General Janet Reno, Comptroller of the Currency Eugene Ludwig and Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, along with the heads of six other financial regulatory agencies. …

The unusual full-court press was predicated on a Boston Fed study showing mortgage lenders rejecting blacks and Hispanics in greater proportion than whites. The author of the 1992 study, hired by the Clinton White House, claimed it was racial “discrimination.” But it was simply good underwriting.
Bloomberg to OWS: Congress caused the mortgage crisis, not the banks « Hot Air

Further support: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Smoking-Gun-Edict-Shows-Gov-ibd-3846212214.html

You might be right that the regulators blew it, but I'd be sure to have the correct regulators who did.

My assertion is that these are the seeds that grew into the situation we had later. You call it lying. I call it easily discernible facts.

Under threat of 10 federal agencies investigating them, banks were demanded by the Clinton administration to increase minority lending. What if all the qualified minorities were already being lent to?

BO8q7axCcAAar2D.jpg


You can continue your hating based on incorrect assumptions and incomplete information if you wish, but doing so will be to your detriment, not mine.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

" No administration forced banks to lend to unqualified minorities." Really? I think perhaps you may need to revise that position.

er uh eohrn, now you're just cutting and pasting empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials. Have you not noticed that I haven't been posting editorials? That lying editorial just like you happily confuses "cracking down on discrimination" with "pressured to give minorities loans". Its a falsehood you cant let go of because you have nothing. How did this "chilling ultimatum" from 1994 allow banks to stop checking income 10 years later? How "chilling" could it be if it took 10 years for the "threats" to take hold? oh wait, you attempt to address that with more empty factless rhetoric.

My assertion is that these are the seeds that grew into the situation we had later. You call it lying. I call it easily discernible facts..

ah "seeds that grew". that's almost as good as the empty factless "got the ball rolling" or "started the fire". Anyhoo, mortgage standards "fell off a cliff" in late 2004. Now you could call "fell of a cliff" rhetoric if I haven't already posted the facts that prove mortgage standards "fell off a cliff" in late 2004.

You can continue your hating based on incorrect assumptions and incomplete information if you wish, but doing so will be to your detriment, not mine.

what "incorrect assumptions" or "incomplete information"? I've backed up every point I've made. Oh that's right, your manifesto wont let you answer questions. Sadly your manifesto encourages you to avoid facts and post more empty factless rhetoric.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

er uh eohrn, now you're just cutting and pasting empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials. Have you not noticed that I haven't been posting editorials? That lying editorial just like you happily confuses "cracking down on discrimination" with "pressured to give minorities loans". Its a falsehood you cant let go of because you have nothing. How did this "chilling ultimatum" from 1994 allow banks to stop checking income 10 years later? How "chilling" could it be if it took 10 years for the "threats" to take hold? oh wait, you attempt to address that with more empty factless rhetoric.



ah "seeds that grew". that's almost as good as the empty factless "got the ball rolling" or "started the fire". Anyhoo, mortgage standards "fell off a cliff" in late 2004. Now you could call "fell of a cliff" rhetoric if I haven't already posted the facts that prove mortgage standards "fell off a cliff" in late 2004.



what "incorrect assumptions" or "incomplete information"? I've backed up every point I've made. Oh that's right, your manifesto wont let you answer questions. Sadly your manifesto encourages you to avoid facts and post more empty factless rhetoric.

Oh Vern. I just love it how anything that is counter to your assumptions and beliefs are "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials" and anything that you post is the pure, honest and truthful.

Based on this it's impossible to have any sort of constructive conversation on this topic with you. It's not so much an exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas, and more your brow beating of any dissenting opinions and ideas. What a typical liberal you are. How proud you must feel about yourself.

Too bad you are in the minority.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

Oh Vern. I just love it how anything that is counter to your assumptions and beliefs are "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials" and anything that you post is the pure, honest and truthful.

No eohrn, you're not countering my assumptions. You're trying to counter the facts. The fact is that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 when banks lowered their lending standards. I posted Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets telling you that. I posted the Fed telling you that. I've documented the 1000% rise in No Doc loans starting in late 2004. I've documented the mortgage default data showing it started in that timeframe for loans from that timeframe. And I've posted data from Fannie Mae's 2012 annual report clearly showing the problems started from mortgages in that timeframe.

Based on this it's impossible to have any sort of constructive conversation on this topic with you. It's not so much an exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas, and more your brow beating of any dissenting opinions and ideas. What a typical liberal you are. How proud you must feel about yourself.

Eorhn, you whining about it not being "exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas" is pretty funny. Your idea of an "exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas" is really you trying to make the facts I post go away. You simply refuse to acknowledge the facts I've posted just as your manifesto tells you to. Case in point, you claimed you didn't say " loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages." I proved you did. You just continued on your merry way of ignoring the facts I've posted. Your manifesto thanks you.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

No eohrn, you're not countering my assumptions. You're trying to counter the facts. The fact is that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 when banks lowered their lending standards. I posted Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets telling you that. I posted the Fed telling you that. I've documented the 1000% rise in No Doc loans starting in late 2004. I've documented the mortgage default data showing it started in that timeframe for loans from that timeframe. And I've posted data from Fannie Mae's 2012 annual report clearly showing the problems started from mortgages in that timeframe.



Eorhn, you whining about it not being "exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas" is pretty funny. Your idea of an "exchange of view points, opinions, analysis and ideas" is really you trying to make the facts I post go away. You simply refuse to acknowledge the facts I've posted just as your manifesto tells you to. Case in point, you claimed you didn't say " loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages." I proved you did. You just continued on your merry way of ignoring the facts I've posted. Your manifesto thanks you.

The fact is that the mortgage bubble started much earlier than the Bush administration, and when a post says as much, you just call it "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials".

The fact is that you purposefully overly narrow the context of discussion that you'll entertain to only what you want to talk about so that you can feel justified in drawing your overly narrow conclusion, which is per-ordained, as you want to blame Bush for it all.

The fact is that multiple posts citing multiple sources substantiate this position, and all you can do in response is to claim they are all "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials" and go back to your overly narrow premise and per-ordained conclusion.

At one point in this thread, you might have had a shred of credibility, but all that has now been washed away, with you overly narrow premise, per-ordained conclusion and repeated claims of "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials" to any counter opinion.

You still haven't actually defended nor defeated the valid observation of fact that it was far more people than just Bush and more presidential administrations than just Bush's.

Finally, I have no manifesto. I am not strongly Republican, nor strongly Democrat (I dislike them both). There are elements of the Tea Party platform that draw me, and there are parts that don't. A fiscal and moral conservative but a social liberal (do whatever you want in your own bedroom, I don't want to know).

So like I said, I really don't have a manifesto, regardless of how you want to categorize me, or miss-categorize me I should say. Just because I don't agree with your overly narrow premise and per-ordained conclusion, doesn't really give you any grounds to miss-characterize me and my opinions and ideas, as some sort of imagined manifesto you've assigned to me.

You claim that I'm "trying to make the facts I post go away" (you speaking). How exactly is this? How exactly is this, when I've already as much as agreed with you that Bush 2 is in fact partially complicit in enabling the situation for the mortgage bubble form? What more do you want? I'm agree with you on this point

And then, adding my own opinion, which that there are many other people people who also had a culpability in forming the conditions for the mortgage bubble. Something that you've time and time again have denied, if I'm not mistaken.

So tell me, why in the world, given all the time and posts in this thread, why should I waste any more of my time with you on this topic? Clearly you suffer from an extreme case of Bush Derangement syndrome, beyond all hope; a terminal case, in my judgement.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

blah blah blah. eorhn, large quantities of empty factless rhetoric is still empty factless rhetoric but it becomes babble. And you babbled so much you even forgot what you babbled.


You claim that I'm "trying to make the facts I post go away" (you speaking). How exactly is this?

The fact is that the mortgage bubble started much earlier than the Bush administration, and when a post says as much, you just call it "empty factless rhetoric from lying editorials".

see eorhn, you are trying to make the fact that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 go away. You can babble in a million posts about “many actors” and pretend enforcing discrimination laws is the same as “forcing banks to give loans to unqualified minorities” but you cant change the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Its what proves everything you post is false and your editorials are lying.

Hey eohrn, before you cut and run, I think you should man up and apologize for saying “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans”. I know it violates your manifesto but that’s why it requires you to man up.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

blah blah blah. eorhn, large quantities of empty factless rhetoric is still empty factless rhetoric but it becomes babble. And you babbled so much you even forgot what you babbled.

And your song remains the same.

Proof if that if you narrow your premise to a ridiculous extent, you can appear to prove whatever ridiculous assertion you want.

see eorhn, you are trying to make the fact that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 go away. You can babble in a million posts about “many actors” and pretend enforcing discrimination laws is the same as “forcing banks to give loans to unqualified minorities” but you cant change the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Its what proves everything you post is false and your editorials are lying.

To quote your very self and to lend you exactly as much respect as you give others: "blah blah blah."

Hey eohrn, before you cut and run, I think you should man up and apologize for saying “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic loans”. I know it violates your manifesto but that’s why it requires you to man up.

Explained, I have no manifesto.

I don't see to whom I have to apologize for anything. Certainly not you, and certainly not to your ridiculous narrow premise.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

And
To quote your very self and to lend you exactly as much respect as you give others: "blah blah blah.".

sorry eohrn, posting Bush's working group and the fed telling you it started late 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting bush’s policy preempting all state laws against predatory lending is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the surge in early payment defaults starting in 2005 is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the 1000% increase in no doc loans starting 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting Fannie Maes mortgage portfolio data is not rhetoric


sorry eohrn, posting “wah wah many actors”, “ wah wah planted the seed” , “ wah wah loans to quailifed minorites leads to toxic mortgages” is not only empty factless rhetoric but its also incredibly whiny. And that’s all you got.

Since your manifesto doesnt allow you to discuss facts, I'll just post some just to see you pretend not to see them.

Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule — But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess

..a regulation adopted by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) under President George W. Bush that preempted state efforts to enforce fair lending laws against branches of national banks. The regulation prevented states from enforcing their own laws against predatory lending and discriminatory credit practices – including the types of practices that directly resulted in last year’s subprime mortgage crisis — and was part of an aggressive effort by the Bush Administration to use federal preemption to trump important state laws that protect consumers, the environment, and public health and safety.


Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule -- But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess | Constitutional Accountability Center
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

And
To quote your very self and to lend you exactly as much respect as you give others: "blah blah blah.".

sorry eohrn, posting Bush's working group and the fed telling you it started late 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting bush’s policy preempting all state laws against predatory lending is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the surge in early payment defaults starting in 2005 is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the 1000% increase in no doc loans starting 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting Fannie Maes mortgage portfolio data is not rhetoric


sorry eohrn, posting “wah wah many actors”, “ wah wah planted the seed” , “ wah wah loans to quailifed minorites leads to toxic mortgages” is not only empty factless rhetoric but its also incredibly whiny. And that’s all you got. Since your manifesto doesnt allow you to discuss facts, I'll just post some just to see you pretend not to see them.

Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule — But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess

..a regulation adopted by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) under President George W. Bush that preempted state efforts to enforce fair lending laws against branches of national banks. The regulation prevented states from enforcing their own laws against predatory lending and discriminatory credit practices – including the types of practices that directly resulted in last year’s subprime mortgage crisis — and was part of an aggressive effort by the Bush Administration to use federal preemption to trump important state laws that protect consumers, the environment, and public health and safety.


Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule -- But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess | Constitutional Accountability Center
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

sorry eohrn, posting Bush's working group and the fed telling you it started late 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting bush’s policy preempting all state laws against predatory lending is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the surge in early payment defaults starting in 2005 is not rhetoric
sorry eohrn, posting the 1000% increase in no doc loans starting 2004 is not rhetoric.
sorry eohrn, posting Fannie Maes mortgage portfolio data is not rhetoric


sorry eohrn, posting “wah wah many actors”, “ wah wah planted the seed” , “ wah wah loans to quailifed minorites leads to toxic mortgages” is not only empty factless rhetoric but its also incredibly whiny. And that’s all you got. Since your manifesto doesnt allow you to discuss facts, I'll just post some just to see you pretend not to see them.

Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule — But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess

..a regulation adopted by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) under President George W. Bush that preempted state efforts to enforce fair lending laws against branches of national banks. The regulation prevented states from enforcing their own laws against predatory lending and discriminatory credit practices – including the types of practices that directly resulted in last year’s subprime mortgage crisis — and was part of an aggressive effort by the Bush Administration to use federal preemption to trump important state laws that protect consumers, the environment, and public health and safety.


Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule -- But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess | Constitutional Accountability Center

But Vern. Were there, or were there not, more people than just Bush making the mortgage bubble larger?

The answer would be "Yes". Would it not?

I don't understand you objection to this single, simple fact. It's almost like you are allergic to it, this single, simple fact.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

But Vern. Were there, or were there not, more people than just Bush making the mortgage bubble larger?

The answer would be "Yes". Would it not?

I don't understand you objection to this single, simple fact. It's almost like you are allergic to it, this single, simple fact.


Oh eohrn, thanks for the laughs. It was funny when you posted your empty factless rhetoric over and over as if it proved something but to now beg me to agree with you is as hysterical as it is sad.

eohrn I know your manifesto prevents you from answering questions but if it was such a simple fact, how come you simply cant find one simple fact to post that in any way explains the “dramatically lower lending standards in late 2004”? the good news eohrn is your empty factless rhetoric is simple. That’s as close as you can get to a simple fact.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

Oh eohrn, thanks for the laughs. It was funny when you posted your empty factless rhetoric over and over as if it proved something but to now beg me to agree with you is as hysterical as it is sad.

eohrn I know your manifesto prevents you from answering questions but if it was such a simple fact, how come you simply cant find one simple fact to post that in any way explains the “dramatically lower lending standards in late 2004”? the good news eohrn is your empty factless rhetoric is simple. That’s as close as you can get to a simple fact.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007

OK. Got it. So according to you, Bush caused and execute the entirety of the mortgage bubble, and there were no other people involved.

Have fun in your own private little reality. Never mind that it has nothing to do with the one the rest of us live in.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

OK. Got it. So according to you, Bush caused and execute the entirety of the mortgage bubble, and there were no other people involved.

Have fun in your own private little reality. Never mind that it has nothing to do with the one the rest of us live in.


my own private little reality? you’re hysterical eohrn, I’m the one posting facts. You arent even allowed to post facts. hey I know, post your “ wah wah many actors ” rhetoric again. you find it soothing. again eohrn, if it was your "facts" are so simple how come you cant find one that in any explains the Bush Mortgage bubble that started in late 2004.

I’ll give you a conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]©[/SUP] post facts or shut up. A conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]©[/SUP] is defined as something you can ignore for 10 years

More facts for you to ignore

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News
We want more people owning their own home in America," Bush said. His goal is to have 5.5 million minority homeowners in the country by the end of the decade....

And while Bush has emphasized promoting home ownership in his federal housing policy proposals, critics say that help for low-income renters and more affordable housing is a much more sorely needed focus.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

my own private little reality? you’re hysterical eohrn, I’m the one posting facts. You arent even allowed to post facts.

You've turned your entire reality into one that will only allow the facts that support your 'blame Bush' meme, your agenda, your ideologically based agenda.

I don't get where you think that I'm not 'even allowed to post facts'. There isn't a single person, entity or group that is keeping me from posting anything that I want.

hey I know, post your “ wah wah many actors ” rhetoric again. you find it soothing. again eohrn, if it was your "facts" are so simple how come you cant find one that in any explains the Bush Mortgage bubble that started in late 2004.

I don't dispute this. All I'm saying it that it's part of a much larger whole, something that you are denying, narrowing your focus onto only the part of the larger whole that promotes the conclusion that you want. That seems like you can't handle it unless you are ideologically stacking the deck in this manner.

Hey, I am posting facts. How is "Bush's actions in the mortgage bubble are only a part of a larger whole" not a fact?

I’ll give you a conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]©[/SUP] post facts or shut up. A conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]©[/SUP] is defined as something you can ignore for 10 years

I have posted facts. The fact is that there were many people involved in the run up to, and the expansion of, the mortgage bubble, which includes Bush. OK? I have no idea what the heck you are trying to say with this "conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]©[/SUP]". From my view, I'm posting facts, you just don't like them, and chose to ignore them. Not my problem. It's your problem.

More facts for you to ignore

I'm ignoring facts? You're ignoring facts.

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News
We want more people owning their own home in America," Bush said. His goal is to have 5.5 million minority homeowners in the country by the end of the decade....

And while Bush has emphasized promoting home ownership in his federal housing policy proposals, critics say that help for low-income renters and more affordable housing is a much more sorely needed focus.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

I don't get where you think that I'm not 'even allowed to post facts'. There isn't a single person, entity or group that is keeping me from posting anything that I want.

You posted your manifesto that tells you not to post facts, not answer questions and not to apologize. And the proof that its your manifesto is you follow it to the letter.

Hey, I am posting facts. How is "Bush's actions in the mortgage bubble are only a part of a larger whole" not a fact?

because you haven't posted anything to show "bush's actions are part of a larger whole." You keep "reassuring" me that it couldn't be just bush's fault alone but simply cant point to anything relevant or factual. Hey I know, repost the conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]© [/SUP]that banks ignored for 10 years. thanks for the laughs.


I'm ignoring facts? You're ignoring facts.

er uh I know you are not allowed to answer questions but what facts? post them and then explain the connection to banks lowering their lending standards in late 2004 and Bush's regulators not only not stopping them but cheering them on. again, thanks for the laughs.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

You posted your manifesto that tells you not to post facts, not answer questions and not to apologize.

So where exactly is this supposed post then?

And the proof that its your manifesto is you follow it to the letter.

Without the alleged post of a manifesto, this has little meaning.

because you haven't posted anything to show "bush's actions are part of a larger whole."

You keep "reassuring" me that it couldn't be just bush's fault alone but simply cant point to anything relevant or factual. Hey I know, repost the conservative chilling ultimatum[SUP]© [/SUP]that banks ignored for 10 years. thanks for the laughs.

I've recited the transaction chain from toxic mortgage origination to the final end consumer of the mortgage backed securities. With out this, the mortgage bubble wouldn't have amounted to much. This is the production line that inflated the bubble to such large proportions. I know this is to be factual.

Vern, are you telling me that Bush, and Bush alone, played all these roles?

er uh I know you are not allowed to answer questions but what facts? post them and then explain the connection to banks lowering their lending standards in late 2004 and Bush's regulators not only not stopping them but cheering them on. again, thanks for the laughs.

Again, far too narrow. Seems to be a habit of yours.

Tell me, what good does it do a bank to offer something for sale that it can't procure? Not a dam thing. What good does it do a bank to have something that it can procure, but no one is buying it? Also, not a dam thing.

So if there wasn't someone filling up the pipeline with mortgages that the banks could buy, what are the banks going to do, regardless of who demands what from them? They won't be able to deliver. And why go and procure something if there's no one around to buy it?

The entire process from front to back is a production line. A production line from mortgage origination to securitization, to sale of MBS.

It was not Bush who was running the production line, filling the pipeline, buying the product that came off the end. He may have set the some, or even most, of the conditions for the production line to arise, but he certainly didn't create or operate the production line. There were others who did that part.

Why don't you see this?

One a production line is running, it gains an inertia all it's own. It gains protectors of the production line who are gaining financially and / or politically, who's sole interest is to continue to benefit from that production line kept operating at full capacity, regardless of who's going to get hurt when it goes off the tracks. Yup, that'd be greed, negligence, and lack of empathy, narcissism, all the traits that make business and political leaders, and it was exhibited, as you point out so well, by both sides of the aisle, by Wall Street Banksters (fraudsters probably more appropriate), by those amoral and irresponsible originators of those NINJA mortgages, all exhibited alike, from the top of the totem pole to the bottom of it.

Now it's the tax payer's turn to follow along after the parade and sweep up after the horses and the elephants. I guess it's their fault in not keeping close enough tabs on their elected officials. Not insisting on a skeptical enough main stream media. thinking they could ignore that which is going on in DC without repercussions.

Yes Vern, there were far more people involved in this heinous act perpetrated on the vast majority of the 'have not' electorate.

I'm puzzled that someone such as yourself doesn't see this to be the case, it's all laid out right there, for all to see, in plain sight, and instead only focuses on a single individual, on a single set of acts by that single individual.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

So where exactly is this supposed post then?


Without the alleged post of a manifesto, this has little meaning.

you posted it in post 936 and 940. You posted it and you follow it to the letter. As far as the rest of your post "blah blah blah". See how you have to resort to babble (ie large quantities of empty factless rhetoric). You might as well whine about the creation of mortgages. By your logic if mortgages didn't exist there wouldn't have been a mortgage bubble. But all your logic overlooks the simple fact that all the problems were caused by toxic mortgages and they started flooding the market late 2004. Bush not only allowed the toxic mortgages but encouraged them. You just don't preempt all state laws against predatory lending, relax the net capital rule, reverse the Clinton rule that restricted GSEs purchases of abusive subprime loans and then say "it wasn't me".

Let me put into words you can understand. Without bush's policies and actions filling the pipeline with toxic mortgages there is no Bush Mortgage Bubble. Do you blame the invention of the car for drunk drivers? I don't think so.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

you posted it in post 936 and 940. You posted it and you follow it to the letter. As far as the rest of your post "blah blah blah". See how you have to resort to babble (ie large quantities of empty factless rhetoric). You might as well whine about the creation of mortgages. By your logic if mortgages didn't exist there wouldn't have been a mortgage bubble. But all your logic overlooks the simple fact that all the problems were caused by toxic mortgages and they started flooding the market late 2004. Bush not only allowed the toxic mortgages but encouraged them. You just don't preempt all state laws against predatory lending, relax the net capital rule, reverse the Clinton rule that restricted GSEs purchases of abusive subprime loans and then say "it wasn't me".

Let me put into words you can understand. Without bush's policies and actions filling the pipeline with toxic mortgages there is no Bush Mortgage Bubble. Do you blame the invention of the car for drunk drivers? I don't think so.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1063445338

you posted it in post 936 and 940. You posted it and you follow it to the letter.

First off, that's not my manifesto, no matter how muchyou try to convince youself that it is. I'm by far no progressive. Further, by just claiming all my posts are blah blah blah, you are following exactly that manifesto, and I think it applies to you far more than it applies to me.

Let's take a look at your latest link:
Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News

Within that news report, the fundamental of Bush's policy for this report was:

Late last year, Bush signed the American Dream Down Payment Act (search) to help families that can afford monthly mortgage payments but not the down payment or closing costs associated with buying a house. The legislation authorizes $200 million a year in down payment assistance to at least 40,000 low-income families.
Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News

So your position is that assistance in meeting the down payment requirements for qualified mortgage borrowers is promoting toxic mortgages?

If I look further at the legislation that Bush signed into law, American Dream Downpayment Initiative - Affordable Housing - CPD - HUD, I see no watering down of lending standards. I see following stipulations:
Purpose
ADDI helped first-time homebuyers with the biggest hurdle to homeownership: downpayment and closing costs. The program was created to assist low-income first-time homebuyers in purchasing single-family homes by providing funds for downpayment, closing costs, and rehabilitation carried out in conjunction with the assisted home purchase.

Type of Assistance
ADDI provides downpayment, closing costs, and rehabilitation assistance to eligible individuals. The amount of ADDI assistance provided may not exceed $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever is greater. The rehabilitation must be completed within one year of the home purchase. Rehabilitation may include, but is not limited to, the reduction of lead paint hazards and the remediation of other home health hazards.

Eligible Customers
To be eligible for ADDI assistance, individuals must be first-time homebuyers interested in purchasing single family housing. A first-time homebuyer is defined as an individual and his or her spouse who have not owned a home during the three-year period prior to the purchase of a home with ADDI assistance. ADDI funds may be used to purchase one- to four- family housing, condominium unit, cooperative unit, or manufactured housing. Additionally, individuals who qualify for ADDI assistance must have incomes not exceeding 80% of area median income.
American Dream Downpayment Initiative - Affordable Housing - CPD - HUD

Help to make the down-payment which caps out at $10K or 6% of the home value seems rather reasonable and responsible to me. Where's the watering down of borrowing standards? I'm not seeing it here. Where's the promotion of borrowing more than you can afford? I'm not seeing it here.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

So what about this Supreme Court Decision?

Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule -- But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess | Constitutional Accountability Center

So who exactly is the Constitutional Accountability Center?
The Community Rights Council was an American non-profit, public interest law firm formed in 1997. Its general aim was to assist communities in protecting their health and welfare.[SUP][1][/SUP] It has since been absorbed into the Constitutional Accountability Center,[SUP][1][/SUP] a liberal advocacy group.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Community Rights Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmm. Not really surprised. Not really trusting their opinion or analysis either.

Since you are hell bent in wanting to blame Bush for this, I'll bring this post back up, as it proves that F&F were deep into toxic mortgage before the Bush administration. Please note, the Bush

Freddie Mac Jumps into Subprime Mortgages - American Banker 175th Year Flashback Article - American Banker 175th Year Flashback

" Freddie Mac is diving into subprime lending, ending months of speculation over how deeply the agency would go into the burgeoning market.

Freddie Mac and its rival, Fannie Mae, outlined their approaches to lending to tarnished borrowers at the Mortgage Bankers Association's annual meeting Tuesday in New York. Their participation could accelerate growth in a sector that has become a new frontier for many lenders and, ultimately, could bring rates down for borrowers.

Chairman Leland C. Brendsel said Freddie will begin buying lower-quality loans over the coming year and proceed further down the credit spectrum in 1999. "We will buy all the loans we can that meet our parameters and can be priced profitably.

Freddie Mac will deal with mainstream lenders as well as companies that have traditionally offered subprime products, he said."


http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/brd/12Bunce.pdf

“From 1993 to 1998, the number of subprime refinance increased tenfold."

Fannie & Freddie: let the fingerpointing begin!

Fannie Mae Chairman and [CEO] Franklin Raines told mortgage bankers in San Francisco that his company’s lender-customers " need to learn the best from the subprime market and bring the best from the prime market into [the subprime market].’ He offered praise for nonprime lenders that, he said, ''are some of the best marketers in financial services.'' We have to push products and opportunities to people who have lesser credit quality,” he said.

“Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements."


http://research.stlouisfed.org/conferences/gse/White.pdf

" The government cannot simply default on the GSE debt with the intention of passing losses onto creditors. About 50% of this debt is held by financial institutions and about 20% by foreign investors, who also own the majority of government debt. Due to their size and interconnectedness, the GSEs cannot simply be unwound in the ways that have been successful for smaller financial firms. We are dealing with $3.5 trillion mortgage guarantees, a $1.7 trillion mortgage portfolio, and a $2.2 trillion position in derivatives. Not only does the unwinding from the GSEs have to be handled well, the Federal Reserve also has to plan its own exit from the $1.5 trillion position of GSE debt and GSE-backed securities that it accumulated as part of the rescue package for the economy."

Fannie and Freddie, as corrupt as the day is long.

And it's true. The corrupt leaders that the Democrats in congress placed into these leader ship positions were paying kick back to the congressmen that supported them, and kept them in those positions.

2005: Fannie Mae pays millions to 354 congressmen and senators, from both parties.
Who got the most money?

#1 Sen. Christopher Dodd, (D-CT) Chairman of the Banking, Housing, & Urban Affairs Committee
#2 Sen. Barack Obama, (D-IL) Federal Financial Management Committee
#3 Sen. Chuck Schumer, (D-NY) Chairman of the Finance Committee
#4 Rep. Barney Frank, (D-MA) Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee

So it's hardly a surprise that:

July 2005: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)
Setting the Record Straight: Six Years of Unheeded Warnings for GSE Reform

Those would be facts there Vern.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

If we look further into the Supreme Court decision you posted:

Supreme Court Strikes Down Bush-Era Preemption Rule -- But Decision is Too Late To Impact Subprime Mortgage Mess | Constitutional Accountability Center

My reading is that at issue is whether the US Treasury Department's Office of the Comptroller of the Currency has the right to supersede state and local banking regulations
Cuomo v. Clearing House Association, L. L. C., 557 U.S. 519, was a case decided by the United States Supreme Court. In a 5-4 decision, the court determined that a federal banking regulation did not pre-empt the ability of states to enforce their own fair-lending laws.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] The Court determined that the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency is the sole regulator of national banks but it doesn't have the authority under the National Bank Act to pre-empt state law enforcement against national banks.
Cuomo v. Clearing House Association, L. L. C.

So what specific part of state and local bank regulations was the OCC addressing?
Further, there are efforts in the secondary mortgage market to curtail the existence of predatory practices by limiting the marketability of certain loans. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac recently announced that they will not purchase mortgages that are made without regard to the borrower's ability to repay the loan or with features such as prepaid single premium credit insurance. Finally, HUD and the Department of Treasury recently established a task force on predatory lending practices that will hold public forums around the country to assist the agencies in gathering information about the scope of the concerns that have been raised.

Through our supervision, we seek to ensure compliance with the fair lending and consumer protection laws and the continued safe and sound operation of our banks. In particular, we believe it would be a fundamentally unsound banking practice to extend credit under circumstances where a bank had no reasonable expectation that a loan could be repaid by the borrower without recourse to liquidating the collateral. While I have no reason to believe that national banks are involved in predatory lending, it is important for the OCC to understand the issues relating to such lending and to use our supervisory authority appropriately so that national banks and their subsidiaries avoid the legal and reputational risks connected with such practices.
Letter from John D. Hawke, Jr., Comptroller of the Currency - May 5, 2000

Seems to me that OCC wanted to place curbs on predatory lending and yet "ensure compliance with the fair lending and consumer protection laws and the continued safe and sound operation of our banks" and again be concerned about "fundamentally unsound banking practice to extend credit under circumstances where a bank had no reasonable expectation that a loan could be repaid by the borrower without recourse to liquidating the collateral".

So this is an example of the OCC being concerned about what ended up bringing down the financial system.

Now who's the parties to this law suit? Cuomo v. Clearing House Association. What's Cumo's track record?

Andrew Cuomo, in charge of HUD, raises the number to 50%, hikes Fannie and Freddie to buy more mortgages in underserved neighborhoods for the very very low income, and also encourages them to strongly enter the sub-prime loan market.
New York Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Village Voice

And Andrew Cuomo is:
Andrew Mark Cuomo (/ˈkwm/; born December 6, 1957) is an American politician who is the 56th and current Governor of New York. A member of the Democratic Party, Cuomo was elected Governor in 2010, holding the same position his father Mario Cuomo held from 1983-94.
. . .
Cuomo then joined the Clinton Administration in 1993 when he was appointed assistant secretary for Community Planning and Development in the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). He then served as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1997 to 2001.
Andrew Cuomo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Cuomo, a Democrat and a Clinton administration hold over in the Bush administration, is against fair lending and consumer protection laws and against ensuring that toxic mortgages aren't originated?

Clearly, Cuomo was someone who should not have been allowed to continue from the Clinton administration in his oversight and influence over F&F.

Failure Bush, for not firing Cuomo any sooner than he did.
 
re: Bush Mortgage Bubble FAQs[W:1083,1531]

Within that news report, the fundamental of Bush's policy for this report was:


oh eorhn, see how you again have to try to argue something I didn’t post in addition to your new found “babble” tactic. The “fundamental” of the blurb I posted from the article was to Bush clearly stating he would use federal policy to increase homeownership. Its not really odd that you “didn’t see” that. Your manifesto tells you do that. I didn’t even mention the Dream act. Now try to focus, Bush said he would use federal policy to increase homeownerhip.
 
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