[W:103]Abortion is legal

[Logician Man]

I never said that abortion is illegal. I said the laws cannot decide for us whether abortion is murder.

SCOTUS ultimately makes that call as to whether any law stands or falls,and SCOTUS has determined abortion is 'legal.' Therefore,it 'logically' follows that abortion is NOT murder,per the 'law' of the land.

 

[Wan]

SCOTUS ultimately makes that call as to whether any law stands or falls,and SCOTUS has determined abortion is 'legal.' Therefore,it 'logically' follows that abortion is NOT murder,per the 'law' of the land.

Yes, they can decide whether something is legal (or illegal, as the case might be), but they do not get to decide whether something is murder not. That is a moral judgement that should be left up to the individuals to decide for themselves.

 

[Logician Man]

Yes, they can decide whether something is legal (or illegal, as the case might be), but they do not get to decide whether something is murder not. That is a moral judgement that should be left up to the individuals to decide for themselves.

No it isn't. You're speaking from emotion,which is fine and understandable. Murder is a 'legal' term...not a 'religious' or 'moral' term.

 

[Wan]

No it isn't. You're speaking from emotion,which is fine and understandable. Murder is a 'legal' term...not a 'religious' or 'moral' term.

In this debate we are talking in a philosophical sense whether abortion is murder or not. We are not talking from a legal point, because if we were, this exchanged would have ended around the second post because it was obvious that the laws treat abortion as not murder.

 

[Logician Man]

In this debate we are talking in a philosophical sense whether abortion is murder or not. We are not talking from a legal point, because if we were, this exchanged would have ended around the second post because it was obvious that the laws treat abortion as not murder.

You may be talking from a philosophical sense,which is fine...but I am not....either way, I still respect your passion. Like I reminded you up thread, remember my personal testimony about what I have done,am doing,and will continue to do for the unborn until the day I die...been nice chatting.

 

[Wan]

You may be talking from a philosophical sense,which is fine...but I am not....either way, I still respect your passion. Like I reminded you up thread, remember my personal testimony about what I have done,am doing,and will continue to do for the unborn until the day I die...been nice chatting.

Thank you Logician.

 

[Logician Man]

Thank you Logician.

Don't thank me. Thank the black Planned Parenthood counselor who talked the female out of aborting. Without that black lady's concern and passion ( much like yours) there would have been one more abortion.

 

[Lursa]

I never said that abortion is illegal. I said the laws cannot decide for us whether abortion is murder.

That is exactly what laws do. They determine what is legal and illegal. And murder is a legal term.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Hundreds of years go, slaves had few (if any) rights, too. Maybe our decision to not confer rights on the unborn is a mistake.

Slavery was wrong and that was corrected. Abortion used to be illegal. That was wrong and it was corrected.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Probably not. I would never force women to do anything they don't want to do, but I would mandate that abortion providers inform the woman that what she is about to do is the murder of her own young.

Why would you mandate they lie to their patients? Abortion is not, nor has ever been in the history of your country (if you are in the USA) or mine.

 

[Scrabaholic]

In this debate we are talking in a philosophical sense whether abortion is murder or not. We are not talking from a legal point, because if we were, this exchanged would have ended around the second post because it was obvious that the laws treat abortion as not murder.

Speak for yourself. Some of us are talking about legality.

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. Abortion, where legal, CANNOT be murder.

 

[Lursa]

Why would you mandate they lie to their patients? Abortion is not, nor has ever been in the history of your country (if you are in the USA) or mine.

This is a very good question that I'd also like to see answered.

As if Drs are tasked with committing murder :roll:

 

[Lursa]

In this debate we are talking in a philosophical sense whether abortion is murder or not. We are not talking from a legal point, because if we were, this exchanged would have ended around the second post because it was obvious that the laws treat abortion as not murder.

Philosophy is based on beliefs. People can believe in unicorns if they want...but they cannot force other people to believe in unicorns.

If someone personally believes that abortion is murder, then of course they would not have one. Can you explain why that person should have the ability to force that belief on a pregnant woman?

All killing is certainly not murder, not legally and not philosophically, *in our society.* The overarching view of things like killing in self-defense and killing in war is NOT that it's murder. And in all polls of Americans, neither is abortion. The majority of Americans support legal abortion. So...not murder.

 

[RileyCoyote]

A good read...
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016...de-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life/

I find it funny how all those for abortion have already been born.

History will not fare well for those in favor of killing societies most innocent. Funny how pro-abortion losers are against capital punishment for scum of society but have no worries butchering babies. They are all for not separating illegal brown children from their parents at the border but don't mind murdering American babies. For shame!

 

[Lursa]

I find it funny how all those for abortion have already been born.

History will not fare well for those in favor of killing societies most innocent. Funny how pro-abortion losers are against capital punishment for scum of society but have no worries butchering babies. They are all for not separating illegal brown children from their parents at the border but don't mind murdering American babies. For shame!

I find it funny how so many pro-life people believe that they hold some moral High Ground on this issue. And you are apparently quite uninformed, since your blanket assumptions are not correct for many.

What do you think would happen if half a million unwanted/unaffordable kids ended up born? To those kids and to society?

But here is why abortion can be a very responsible choice...a woman doesnt have a kid:

--she cant afford, taking taxpayer $ to support herself and kid

--she's not ready for, knowing she'd neglect or abuse it.

--when she knows she wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs...and risking a baby with birth defects

--just to put it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 in the US waiting for adoption (and many more in foster care)​

Surely you can see that taking away the choice for abortion only condemns those 100,000 kids waiting for homes, aware and homeless, to move even further down the line and have less chance for a family? There's nothing moral in increasing more unwanted kids in our society.

Abortion has no negative effects on society...unless you can name any?

 

[RileyCoyote]

I find it funny how so many pro-life people believe that they hold some moral High Ground on this issue. And you are apparently quite uninformed, since your blanket assumptions are not correct for many.

What do you think would happen if half a million unwanted/unaffordable kids ended up born? To those kids and to society?

But here is why abortion can be a very responsible choice...a woman doesnt have a kid:

--she cant afford, taking taxpayer $ to support herself and kid

--she's not ready for, knowing she'd neglect or abuse it.

--when she knows she wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs...and risking a baby with birth defects

--just to put it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 in the US waiting for adoption (and many more in foster care)​

Surely you can see that taking away the choice for abortion only condemns those 100,000 kids waiting for homes, aware and homeless, to move even further down the line and have less chance for a family? There's nothing moral in increasing more unwanted kids in our society.

Abortion has no negative effects on society...unless you can name any?

Poor excuse, as usual.

 

[Lursa]

A good read...
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016...de-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life/

Sadly out of date or just plain lying.

For one thing, most women today choose to have their babies and the abortion rate goes down every year.

And she describes a 19 week abortion like it's the norm, while it is the exception, done for medically-indicated purposes. So she lied just to inflame and manipulate emotions.

Here's fact: 97.5% of all abortions consist of a pea-sized unborn being flushed painlessly from the womb. Funny...she didnt mention that.

 

[RileyCoyote]

Sadly out of date or just plain lying.

For one thing, most women today choose to have their babies and the abortion rate goes down every year.

And she describes a 19 week abortion like it's the norm, while it is the exception, done for medically-indicated purposes. So she lied just to inflame and manipulate emotions.

Here's fact: 97.5% of all abortions consist of a pea-sized unborn being flushed painlessly from the womb. Funny...she didnt mention that.

Bull****

 

[soylentgreen]

A good read...
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016...de-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life/

I find it funny how all those for abortion have already been born.

History will not fare well for those in favor of killing societies most innocent. Funny how pro-abortion losers are against capital punishment for scum of society but have no worries butchering babies. They are all for not separating illegal brown children from their parents at the border but don't mind murdering American babies. For shame!

What is even more funny is the hypocrisy you demonstrate.
Let's use your example of exaggeration and twisted views to make false appearance.

DUBLIN // Women’s groups are calling for other Catholic-run former homes for unmarried mothers to be investigated after a mass grave containing the remains of dozens of babies and young children was discovered at one such home.

Roman Catholic religious orders ran homes for unmarried pregnant girls until well into the 1990s all over Ireland. The young women sent to them often suffered harsh treatment at the hands of the nuns who believed sex outside marriage was a mortal sin.

The coalition of mother and baby home survivors called the shocking discovery of the mass grave “the tip of the iceberg.”

Nearly 800 children died at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in the town of Tuam, in western Ireland, according to death certificates discovered by a local historian, Catherine Corless. The home was one of several throughout strongly Catholic Ireland.

Run by the Bon Secours order of nuns, the Tuam home opened in 1925 and closed in 1961. The “significant quantities” of remains were found in 17 out of 20 underground chambers that were examined. The investigators established the chambers were originally used to treat sewage.

See, is it not funny how anti abortionists will wait for the child to be born and then murder them.

 

[Lursa]

Bull****

So you choose to swallow lies whole simply because they conform to your preconceived beliefs. That's also your right, to remain wallowing in ignorance.

If it was untrue...you could refute it in discussion.

 

[RileyCoyote]

What is even more funny is the hypocrisy you demonstrate.
Let's use your example of exaggeration and twisted views to make false appearance.



See, is it not funny how anti abortionists will wait for the child to be born and then murder them.

ridiculousness

 

[Lursa]

What do you think would happen if half a million unwanted/unaffordable kids ended up born? To those kids and to society?

But here is why abortion can be a very responsible choice...a woman doesnt have a kid:

--she cant afford, taking taxpayer $ to support herself and kid

--she's not ready for, knowing she'd neglect or abuse it.

--when she knows she wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs...and risking a baby with birth defects

--just to put it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 in the US waiting for adoption (and many more in foster care)

Surely you can see that taking away the choice for abortion only condemns those 100,000 kids waiting for homes, aware and homeless, to move even further down the line and have less chance for a family? There's nothing moral in increasing more unwanted kids in our society.

Abortion has no negative effects on society...unless you can name any?

Poor excuse, as usual.

Which of those is a 'poor excuse?' Please be specific.

Please explain how you justify enabling more unwanted/unaffordable kids to be born when more than 100,000 are stuck, AWARE, hoping and waiting for families? How do you justify just adding more and more homeless unwanted kids?

This is a discussion forum...can you actually support your position with facts and reality, or not? Please see the bold above for some places for you to start. One word dismissals indicates you have a very weak position.

 

[RileyCoyote]

So you choose to swallow lies whole simply because they conform to your preconceived beliefs. That's also your right, to remain wallowing in ignorance.

If it was untrue...you could refute it in discussion.

I see how the left operates in here and I am not interested in convincing you to think like me. Abortion is legal, why are you so angry? Never mind, I am not really interested in your answer. lol

 

[RileyCoyote]

Which of those is a 'poor excuse?' Please be specific.

Please explain how you justify enabling more unwanted/unaffordable kids to be born when more than 100,000 are stuck, AWARE, hoping and waiting for families? How do you justify just adding more and more homeless unwanted kids?

Nope, not gonna do it....you will just have to deal with what I think on your own.

 

[Lursa]

I see how the left operates in here and I am not interested in convincing you to think like me. Abortion is legal, why are you so angry? Never mind, I am not really interested in your answer. lol

I'm not angry, you seem to be. I am here to debate...and you clearly are not capable of assimilating new information that does not conform to your rigid, tightly held beliefs.