Voter Fraud Database Tops 1,000 Proven Cases

[Slyfox696]

It's amazing how you misunderstand the purpose of both the thread and the investigation.

I didn't misunderstand. I mocked because math doesn't lie.

Big difference.

 

[Renae]

Every ID law that has passed so far has been a transparent attempt to depress liberal turnout. I have ZERO faith that this is any different.

I have no problem with ID laws in theory, but I know that a fair one would not have the effect that the Republican party is looking for. Democrats will still win elections and we'll be on to the next theory and the next attempt to make that less likely.

For all the things in this world you need photo ID for, that makes your entire line bunk, the judges that ruled so should be kicked off the bench.

 

[rocket88]

For all the things in this world you need photo ID for, that makes your entire line bunk, the judges that ruled so should be kicked off the bench.

Require ID then. I have no problem with that as long as the list is fair. I have yet to see a fair one. Ever notice how every list excludes anything that indicates they might vote Dem? Of course you haven't.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

And yet, by stopping one, the assertion is that the other will occur.
There is no evidence absent the prediction of dire consequence that this will happen.
There is nothing to demonstrate it ever has happened.

I think the word that missing is "risk"

You run a "risk" of disenfranchising many more lawful voters than you prevent fraud voters.
You'd like to err on the side of possibly disenfranchising lawful voters to prevent a handful of fraud voters.
Other folks think we should err the other way—risk a handful of fraud vote to prevent disenfranchising lawful voters.
We will never have perfection.
There's only a question of which sorts of error we'd like to make.

You'd rather make the error of taking lawful votes from American citizens.
Others'd rather make the error of allowing a handful of fraud votes.

:shrug:

 

[phattonez]

How many of those people were legally able to vote but misidentified by the system.

Probably not many. By the way, what's up with all of the people choosing to deregister to vote in Colorado. Think it has anything to do with this investigation?

 

[phattonez]

Every ID law that has passed so far has been a transparent attempt to depress liberal turnout. I have ZERO faith that this is any different.

I have no problem with ID laws in theory, but I know that a fair one would not have the effect that the Republican party is looking for. Democrats will still win elections and we'll be on to the next theory and the next attempt to make that less likely.

What would be an ID law that would not be a "transparent attempt to depress liberal turnout"?

 

[phattonez]

I think the word that missing is "risk"

You run a "risk" of disenfranchising many more lawful voters than you prevent fraud voters.
You'd like to err on the side of possibly disenfranchising lawful voters to prevent a handful of fraud voters.
Other folks think we should err the other way—risk a handful of fraud vote to prevent disenfranchising lawful voters.
We will never have perfection.
There's only a question of which sorts of error we'd like to make.

You'd rather make the error of taking lawful votes from American citizens.
Others'd rather make the error of allowing a handful of fraud votes.

:shrug:

Why are we allowing anyone to vote who can't prove their citizenship? How is that anything but a mockery of the rule of law?

 

[Napoleon]

This goes along with the thread.

Liberal hysteria over Trump's voter fraud panel proves why it's needed

OPINION | Liberal hysteria over Trump's voter fraud panel proves why it's needed | TheHill

The commission’s first action was to ask all 50 states to send in voter registration records — including names, dates of birth, and voting history — in order to study the extent of voter fraud. A number of states have refused to comply.

How could states hold onto such information? Well, they can’t. The Trump administration only requested information that is “publicly available under the laws of your state.” In the case of the last four digits of social security numbers, the commission only requested that information if it is public record in any particular state. States can of course send in all the other information to the commission but withhold partial social security numbers if they are not public record.

That’s not what the headlines say, though. There is full-on panic from the same people that say voter fraud never happens. To a CNN contributor, it’s a “sham.” To the New York Times editorial board, it’s “fraudulent.” Left-of-center voters were so offended by the commission, that they bombarded its office with porn. The open meetings are operating “in the dark,” says the ACLU. It will “suppress” the vote. It’s Trump’s “biggest lie.”

Why are we allowing anyone to vote who can't prove their citizenship? How is that anything but a mockery of the rule of law?

Looking at the source in the OP - why should I care that a lady in podunk Alabama filed a fraudulent absentee ballot for a commissioner race in the 90s? Also - doesn't the fact that these examples exist prove that the system currently in place for detecting these issues is working? Why try to fix something that isn't broken?

 

[phattonez]

Looking at the source in the OP - why should I care that a lady in podunk Alabama filed a fraudulent absentee ballot for a commissioner race in the 90s? Also - doesn't the fact that these examples exist prove that the system currently in place for detecting these issues is working? Why try to fix something that isn't broken?

What the system currently finds is people who show up for someone who has already voted. That's the only kind of fraud that it can find. What it cannot find are people voting for people who have moved, or voting for people who have died, or voting for people who are illegally registered. Those cannot be found, and that is where the vast majority of the fraud is.

 

[Napoleon]

What the system currently finds is people who show up for someone who has already voted. That's the only kind of fraud that it can find. What it cannot find are people voting for people who have moved, or voting for people who have died, or voting for people who are illegally registered. Those cannot be found, and that is where the vast majority of the fraud is.

The examples provided are not just in-person voter fraud.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Why are we allowing anyone to vote who can't prove their citizenship? How is that anything but a mockery of the rule of law?

Well, the thing is we're human and we are unlikely to get anything perfect.
So we make decisions about what errors we'd like to make.

frintints, we've decided that we'd rather have a guilty person go free than send an innocent person to jail.
So we make the standard for conviction " beyond a reasonable doubt" knowing fully that some of guilty will go free.

So maybe it's just a matter of priorities.

Would you rather risk a handful of fraudulent votes slip by?
Or would you rather risk taking the vote from American citizens?

If you do not want the potentially affected people voting anyway, the preference is simple and easy.

Perfect security and perfect usability at the same time is not an option

 

[phattonez]

The examples provided are not just in-person voter fraud.

I've taken a look at them. Mostly it seems to be that illegal registrations are found in the process of another investigation. These false registrations will be found only after a person is found to be using a fake SSN or birth certificate. Once they have that, then they've found the false registration. In other words, registrations are actually not checked to make sure their genuine, because, as I said, states don't have access to SSN databases.

And check out the database. A lot of the fraud found is in absentee ballots, which is intriguing. That system has to be cleaned up somehow.

 

[phattonez]

Well, the thing is we're human and we are unlikely to get anything perfect.
So we make decisions about what errors we'd like to make.

frintints, we've decided that we'd rather have a guilty person go free than send an innocent person to jail.
So we make the standard for conviction " beyond a reasonable doubt" knowing fully that some of guilty will go free.

So maybe it's just a matter of priorities.

Would you rather risk a handful of fraudulent votes slip by?
Or would you rather risk taking the vote from American citizens?

If you do not want the potentially affected people voting anyway, the preference is simple and easy.

Perfect security and perfect usability at the same time is not an option

I'd rather people prove that they're citizens with a simple photo ID, birth certificate, etc. It's not hard.

 

[Napoleon]

I've taken a look at them. Mostly it seems to be that illegal registrations are found in the process of another investigation. These false registrations will be found only after a person is found to be using a fake SSN or birth certificate. Once they have that, then they've found the false registration. In other words, registrations are actually not checked to make sure their genuine, because, as I said, states don't have access to SSN databases.

And check out the database. A lot of the fraud found is in absentee ballots, which is intriguing. That system has to be cleaned up somehow.

They only found 1,000 examples spanning over 20 years and most of which seem to involve local elections. I'm not concerned by it.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I'd rather people prove that they're citizens with a simple photo ID, birth certificate, etc. It's not hard.

You have made it clear that you're willing to take the risk with some Americans' right to vote.

:shrug:

 

[phattonez]

They only found 1,000 examples spanning over 20 years and most of which seem to involve local elections. I'm not concerned by it.

You're missing the point. This doesn't mean that there were only 1000 examples in that case, it means that there were only 1000 found. The majority of the fraud is people using fake SSN or voting in place of another person. This can't be detected unless it's checked against a SSN database, which states cannot do.

 

[phattonez]

You have made it clear that you're willing to take the risk with some Americans' right to vote.

:shrug:

All Americans are easily able to get documents to prove their citizenship.

 

[Kobie]

You're missing the point. This doesn't mean that there were only 1000 examples in that case, it means that there were only 1000 found. The majority of the fraud is people using fake SSN or voting in place of another person. This can't be detected unless it's checked against a SSN database, which states cannot do.

Wrong.

 

[rocket88]

What would be an ID law that would not be a "transparent attempt to depress liberal turnout"?

It would not exclude student IDs, public housing ID's or passports. All of which have been excluded in the past. It would also not have riders restricting early voting, which tends to go Democratic.

 

[rocket88]

You're missing the point. This doesn't mean that there were only 1000 examples in that case, it means that there were only 1000 found. The majority of the fraud is people using fake SSN or voting in place of another person. This can't be detected unless it's checked against a SSN database, which states cannot do.

Voter fraud yes. If you use a very narrow definition. Electoral fraud, which includes any fraudulent attempts to sway an election, it is only a small percentage.

 

[phattonez]

Wrong.

True, because we have no way of detecting it, thus why wouldn't people be taking advantage of that? And why do you think that people are de-registering to vote in Colorado?

 

[Kobie]

True, because we have no way of detecting it, thus why wouldn't people be taking advantage of that? And why do you think that people are de-registering to vote in Colorado?

SHORTER: You have no way of sourcing your claim.

 

[phattonez]

SHORTER: You have no way of sourcing your claim.

Hence the investigation which can detect this type of fraud.

 

[Kobie]

Hence the investigation which can detect this type of fraud.

How exactly is this investigation going to detect this type of fraud? Specifics, please.

 

[phattonez]

How exactly is this investigation going to detect this type of fraud? Specifics, please.

Compare names, date of births, and social security numbers to the social security number database. This can find false registrations, out of date registrations, and duplicate registrations, all of which are likely substantial.

Thousands of dead people likely on Indiana voter rolls, analysts say | Fox News

At the very least it will clean up voter rolls of dead people and those who have moved. More likely it will expose a massive fraudulent registration problem.