Virus Confirms the Importance of Fiscal Responsiblity

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Might be a good question were it "unfettered capitalism" here in America.

It isn't, hasn't been for a long time.

We've had creeping socialism creeping up and creeping up... now we have out & proud open socialist/communists running for president !

This is not what we want or need.

So what is your grand solution, then? What, specifically, did socialism do that hurt us here?

 

[captaintrips]

So what is your grand solution, then?

Grand solution, that's an interesting term.

No grand solution necessary. It's simple really, we need to reject socialism, refuse to elect people who want to change America into another failed socialist experiment.

What, specifically, did socialism do that hurt us here?

We have witnessed socialisms failures around the world many times. We need to reject it. Simple.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Grand solution, that's an interesting term.

No grand solution necessary. It's simple really, we need to reject socialism, refuse to elect people who want to change America into another failed socialist experiment.



We have witnessed socialisms failures around the world many times. We need to reject it. Simple.

Actually, the U.S. is a pretty good demonstration of the failure of capitalism. It has only been the government coming to the rescue in socialist fashion that has kept us afloat. Happened in 2008, and it's about to happen again. Capitalism has no answer for this pandemic.

 

[captaintrips]

Actually, the U.S. is a pretty good demonstration of the failure of capitalism. It has only been the government coming to the rescue in socialist fashion that has kept us afloat.

Incorrect.

The "government" has ONLY attempted to correct the uncorrectable. That is human corruption... which is part of what ALWAYS makes socialist ideas fail.

Capitalism gave America the best & most productive citizenry and wealth the world has ever seen. It was NOT socialism. Corruption caused problems with capitalism to of course, it causes problems no matter what system of governing or economics is used.

Happened in 2008, and it's about to happen again. Capitalism has no answer for this pandemic.

That IS correct. Diseases, infections, germs whatever are a separate topic from economic policies/ideas.

That certain systems of economics and governing are better suited to help people WITH these matters, is true, they are different topics.

If you think a socialist or communist system of governing and economics is better suited to these, go ahead and move to one of the countries that practices them and see how much better you life is.

IF it IS indeed better, tell your story, many will be following after you believe it !

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Incorrect.

The "government" has ONLY attempted to correct the uncorrectable. That is human corruption... which is part of what ALWAYS makes socialist ideas fail.

Capitalism gave America the best & most productive citizenry and wealth the world has ever seen. It was NOT socialism. Corruption caused problems with capitalism to of course, it causes problems no matter what system of governing or economics is used.



That IS correct. Diseases, infections, germs whatever are a separate topic from economic policies/ideas.

That certain systems of economics and governing are better suited to help people WITH these matters, is true, they are different topics.

If you think a socialist or communist system of governing and economics is better suited to these, go ahead and move to one of the countries that practices them and see how much better you life is.

IF it IS indeed better, tell your story, many will be following after you believe it !

I'd rather remain where I was born and allow you guys to eat each other out of existence.

Also, I'm pretty sure that few, if any, Europeans would trade their conditions for ours.

 

[captaintrips]

I'd rather remain where I was born and allow you guys to eat each other out of existence.

So there's no problem then, we won't be around long, no worries be happy.

Also, I'm pretty sure that few, if any, Europeans would trade their conditions for ours.

And it's the same here as there, as it always will be. They bitch about things THERE, we bitch about things HERE... but we all stay where we are ....

 

[jonny5]

Nope, you are grasping at a lone straw to show us those "many" businesses which you allege are currently hiring. How many (of those many) businesses are hiring those with restaurant/bar experience?

No, you just dont want to admit you were wrong. It is a fact that many businesses are hiring. Therefore when you said it wasnt true, you were wrong. And when you then listed businesses that were hiring you contradicted yourself. Since I dont expect you to admit it though, lets go to the point.

If you lose your job, there are people hiring. Get a new one to get you through the hard times.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

No, you just dont want to admit you were wrong. It is a fact that many businesses are hiring. Therefore when you said it wasnt true, you were wrong. And when you then listed businesses that were hiring you contradicted yourself. Since I dont expect you to admit it though, lets go to the point.

If you lose your job, there are people hiring. Get a new one to get you through the hard times.

So, we shouldn't expect high unemployment, then. Those 3 million or so newly unemployed workers can all get jobs at all of these thriving businesses you are talking about. Awesome! Crisis over.

 

[jonny5]

Actually, the U.S. is a pretty good demonstration of the failure of capitalism. It has only been the government coming to the rescue in socialist fashion that has kept us afloat. Happened in 2008, and it's about to happen again. Capitalism has no answer for this pandemic.

They only had the ability to try come to the rescue because it can tax capitalism because their foundation is capitalism. And as we've seen capitalists such as pharmaceutical companies, and hundreds of thousands of businesses are swiftly adapting their businesses to changing conditions, retooling their machines, filling surges in demand, changing their entire model to support social distancing, spending their profits to support their employees, without being forced.

 

[jonny5]

So, we shouldn't expect high unemployment, then. Those 3 million or so newly unemployed workers can all get jobs at all of these thriving businesses you are talking about. Awesome! Crisis over.

Great. Go find another thread to push your MMT fantasy then.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

They only had the ability to try come to the rescue because it can tax capitalism because their foundation is capitalism. And as we've seen capitalists such as pharmaceutical companies, and hundreds of thousands of businesses are swiftly adapting their businesses to changing conditions, retooling their machines, filling surges in demand, changing their entire model to support social distancing, spending their profits to support their employees, without being forced.

Oh, please. Pharmaceutical companies are already profiteering. You are delusional.

Companies that produce essentials are doing fine. They are operating as usual. I don't see any big changes to support social distancing by businesses. And I certainly don't see them spending their profits to support employees. Given the opportunity, businesses that get government money with no strings are going to line their own pockets, just like they did with their tax break a little while ago.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Great. Go find another thread to push your MMT fantasy then.

Those MMT ideas are the ones that are going to save our economic butts. IF Congress isn't still afraid of "debt."

 

[ttwtt78640]

When a 'government' creates 'programs' and promises things to those people, then forces the people all to sign up for the programs, those programs sure as hell better not fail !

WHY are there still fools around who want socialism ???????

It fails every single time ! It does not, CAN not work.

Most of those "safety net" programs are for the direct financial benefit of "job creators". The "job creators" would much rather pay a bit more in taxes to allow 12% to 15% of their "qualified" lowest wage workers to get "safety net" assistance than be forced to pay all of their lowest wage workers enough such that none of them would be in need of that "safety net" assistance.

 

[danielpalos]

Oh, please. Pharmaceutical companies are already profiteering. You are delusional.

Companies that produce essentials are doing fine. They are operating as usual. I don't see any big changes to support social distancing by businesses. And I certainly don't see them spending their profits to support employees. Given the opportunity, businesses that get government money with no strings are going to line their own pockets, just like they did with their tax break a little while ago.

Why not "buy out their patent" through eminent domain? The consumer would benefit from generic prices sooner.

 

[captaintrips]

Most of those "safety net" programs are for the direct financial benefit of "job creators". The "job creators" would much rather pay a bit more in taxes to allow 12% to 15% of their "qualified" lowest wage workers to get "safety net" assistance than be forced to pay all of their lowest wage workers enough such that none of them would be in need of that "safety net" assistance.

Some are, some aren't

The one I was specifically addressing was social security

We were given this program and told it was for US, to help us in our 'retirement'

We are forced by law to sign up for it, we HAVE to add to it all of our working lives

We are promised and told that it is OUR money - and it is - but those who manage it, perhaps aren't managing it well and it may not be available to us, when we reach an age where we NEED it

My main point is that it is always foolishness to depend on "the government" to take care of our money for us in some "program" they design for "our benefit"

Better believe there will be a LOT of pissed off people when they're told;

"Sorry, we ran out your money. It's all gone, you can't have it now."

when that money was taken from them all their lives and promised for their older years

 

[ttwtt78640]

Some are, some aren't

The one I was specifically addressing was social security

We were given this program and told it was for US, to help us in our 'retirement'

We are forced by law to sign up for it, we HAVE to add to it all of our working lives

We are promised and told that it is OUR money - and it is - but those who manage it, perhaps aren't managing it well and it may not be available to us, when we reach an age where we NEED it

My main point is that it is always foolishness to depend on "the government" to take care of our money for us in some "program" they design for "our benefit"

Better believe there will be a LOT of pissed off people when they're told;

"Sorry, we ran out your money. It's all gone, you can't have it now."

when that money was taken from them all their lives and promised for their older years

Social Security (SS) was designed as a "pay as you go" system such that the payroll taxes paid by current workers directly fund current retirees. That means there is nothing to "manage" or "invest". Nobody has yet been told that they are no longer going to receive SS retirement benefits.

 

[Moderate Right]

Those MMT ideas are the ones that are going to save our economic butts. IF Congress isn't still afraid of "debt."

LOL. We've got 24 trillion in debt! When has Congress ever been afraid of debt? What planet do you live on?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

LOL. We've got 24 trillion in debt! When has Congress ever been afraid of debt? What planet do you live on?

Here comes Mr. Know-It-All again! MR doesn't bother to learn anything about economics, but he still feels like he has to post in this forum. How arrogant of you.

SAD!

 

[Moderate Right]

Here comes Mr. Know-It-All again! MR doesn't bother to learn anything about economics, but he still feels like he has to post in this forum. How arrogant of you.

SAD!

What?????????????????????? Are you denying that Congress let us take on 24 trillion in debt? And you claim I don't know anything?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

What?????????????????????? Are you denying that Congress let us take on 24 trillion in debt? And you claim I don't know anything?

Yes. You don't know anything.

You haven't been able to competently answer an economic question in the years you have been flogging this forum. Not sure why you stay, but I'm happy to make fun of you while you do.