US study lays bare extreme pay-ratio problem

[Pedestrian]

That's a very hostile post considering I am mostly in agreement with you.

I like to say it's been great before I say good bye, but mistakenly insulting someone on their first post does not bode well for any kind of meaningful relationship down the road.

Good bye

There wasn't an ounce of hostility in my post. Just facts.

 

[Bullseye]

The bottom 40% of American earners are in fact poorer than they were in 1980.

That means a continuing, accelerating decline of incomes and standard of living with an increase in per capita and household debt.

The bottom 1/2 of Americans will eventually run out of borrowing power entirely and then the economy starts a slow march to hell.

isn't happening. They live in larger houses, far more of which have internet service and air conditioning. Most have cable tv service. Their cars have more features and get better gas mileage than those of the 70's and 80's. They have wider shopping choices and foods that weren't even available back then. Incomes are NOT declining by any rational measure - most at least keep up with inflation.

As I mentioned above salaries are far more based on merit than back then. If you have a job anyone can do you're not getting the big money. If you have in-demand skills and knowledge you will.

 

[jimbo]

More survival of the fittest bullshat.

The world has evolved to a higher level in terms of Income Fairness.

Not socialist income equality but Income Equitability. Meaning "characterized by equity or fairness; just and right; fair; reasonable: equitable treatment of all citizens.

You were evidently left somewhere behind ...

Suit yourself. The less people in the I'm gonna get rich pool the better chance those in it have to succeed.

 

[Pedestrian]

Funny, for an alleged conservative you sure spew those LW mantras easily.

What I 'spew' is original conservative economic policies that do happen to be somewhat in line for what the modern right must 'spew'...as lefty policy today.

Tell me when the great American corp. and investor hasn't acted with greed and avarice. I am thinking if we could manage to keep

score...I'd win. I think I have a book in my mind on the subject and it wouldn't have a happy ending.

American jobs are still as we type, being exported to Mexico and China et al despite temp. corp. extortion of money that once gone, needs to
be covered by their newly impoverished unemployed workers to pay.

Oh yes and if you ask an expert like Mitt Romney, their ensuing poverty will be their fault as they become takers rather than makers,

while Romney was a destroyer (a vulture capitalist. Geo Will) who killed jobs to make million$. Great incentives hey ?

 

[Pedestrian]

isn't happening. They live in larger houses, far more of which have internet service and air conditioning. Most have cable tv service. Their cars have more features and get better gas mileage than those of the 70's and 80's. They have wider shopping choices and foods that weren't even available back then. Incomes are NOT declining by any rational measure - most at least keep up with inflation.

As I mentioned above salaries are far more based on merit than back then. If you have a job anyone can do you're not getting the big money. If you have in-demand skills and knowledge you will.

You keep listing meaningless acquisitions of toys and entertainment when most of the poor still can't pay the bills or use much of them.

In terms of inflation, bottom 40% (and more everyday) are poorer and have a lower standard of living since '80.

 

[Bullseye]

You keep listing meaningless acquisitions of toys and entertainment when most of the poor still can't pay the bills or use much of them.

Those aren't "meaningless" they add to the quality and enjoyment of life.

In terms of inflation, bottom 40% (and more everyday) are poorer and have a lower standard of living since '80.

I see no evidence of that at all. I see wages meeting or beating inflation.

 

[ludin]

TRULY PATHETIC!
Nope. We are masters of our destiny, and WE DECIDE. Not "the market".

I pay you what i can afford and what value you bring. If all you bring is 7.25 then that is all you bring.

A minimum-wage of $7.25/hour is ridiculous in a country where the Poverty-Threshold is $12/hour.

If you hadn't removed my posts i showed you those that make that. They either have no high school diploma or only a high school diploma.

So, we must find the courage to pass a law that stipulates the National Minimum-Wage at $12/hour.
Pathetic. Truly pathetic for the Greatest Nation on Earth ... !

and those states have only set the new floor at 12 dollars an hour. raising the floor only creates a new floor.
the fact that you do no understand this simple concept is why you struggle with these discussions.

 

[Bullseye]

What I 'spew' is original conservative economic policies that do happen to be somewhat in line for what the modern right must 'spew'...as lefty policy today.

you're fooling yourself.

Tell me when the great American corp. and investor hasn't acted with greed and avarice. I am thinking if we could manage to keep

score...I'd win. I think I have a book in my mind on the subject and it wouldn't have a happy ending.

I think you're conflating desire to succeed with "greed and avarice". People invest or go into business with the idea of making money, of course. I imagine you work for the same reason, and I'd bet if your boss offered you a raise, you'd take it. Is that "greed and avarice" or just wanting a better life.

American jobs are still as we type, being exported to Mexico and China et al despite temp. corp. extortion of money that once gone, needs to
be covered by their newly impoverished unemployed workers to pay.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Oh yes and if you ask an expert like Mitt Romney, their ensuing poverty will be their fault as they become takers rather than makers,

while Romney was a destroyer (a vulture capitalist. Geo Will) who killed jobs to make million$. Great incentives hey ?

Huh?

 

[gdgyva]

The rock is popular. A movie with him in it will.probably make money.

Ceo's sit on each others boards and vote each other raises.

Not the same dynamic.

How many movies from Hollywood make money? Bomb at the box office?

Do they ask the actors.to give their fees back? Of course not

And yes it actually is very similar....if you take the business bias out of it

Good and bad actors, and executives...and some idiot willing to throw them money

 

[Xelor]

I cannot lie. I hate the pay-ratio, pay-gap, income inequality discussion/narrative that these days suffuse our discourse. I do because the gap in pay isn't the problem. Think about it:

1. Do you care that someone else makes any given amount more or less than you?
2. Do you care that your wages are insufficient to allow you to afford a "reasonable" lifestyle?

Maybe you are so envious that the first is what discontents you. I think most people's dissatisfaction derives from the second option.

I know that when I commenced my career, my salary was ~30K/year. The most highly paid partner in the firm earned around $2M/year. Now I may have felt that I deserved to be paid more than I was, but what I was paid was enough for me to live a reasonable lifestyle: I could pay my mortgage, feed myself, pay my car note, save some money, clothe myself, socialize and take a couple modest vacations each year. Did I want to someday earn enough to live a somewhat more lavish lifestyle, yes, but I knew that if followed the plan I'd set for myself, that day would come, and, lo and behold, in time it did.

How'd I know it'd work? Well, because it's the same damn plan that'd worked for millions before me over the course of some ~200+ years. I didn't feel like or want to "reinvent the wheel." I just needed to make sure I was on the cart attached to the wheel so I roll right along with it and take in what came my way during the journey. That's not easy to do, but neither is it hard to do. It's merely something that one must bother to do, because "stuff" isn't going to just roll right up into one's lap.

A few years into my career, I went back to school to get a master's degree. I got the degree and then I returned to the workforce; however, the second time round, I and a couple friends hung our own shingle, so to speak. Not too long after opening our firm, we each were making good money, yet we weren't making CEO-money, even though we were effectively CEOs. Even so, we made enough to afford lifestyles that suited us, and that was what mattered.

Some 30-odd years later, I'm about to turn 60 and retired, looking to figure out what I want to do with the next ten to twenty years of life I might have left before my dotage begins. I live a nice life and I've managed to acclimate my kids to nice lifestyles, yet there are plenty of folks who earned more than I. I don't begrudge those richer folks their greater wealth for I'm content with my own.

I think most folks, like me, really don't care how much anyone else makes. I think, too, that the income inequality narrative that pervades modern discourse disserves people by tacitly giving them someone to blame other than themselves. People need to stop griping about how much someone else makes and start focusing on how to use their own resources to more income to themselves.

If we reduce CEOs' wages by half and leave everyone else's unchanged, what good does that do everyone else? None. That's why this beef about income inequality and how much "so and so" worker makes is nothing other than sophistry.

 

[Lafayette]

you tell me why Dwayne the Rock Johnson is paid 22 million per movie, and i will explain why CEO's are paid they they are

Just one more reason why Replicant Dorks on this forum cannot get the notion through their THICK SKILLS that Hollywood remunerations are eccentric. With a 99% tax on all income above $5M a year that will stop-dead.

And, at the same time, if we raise the minimum wage (across the nation by means of a National Law) to that of the Poverty Threshold ($12/hour) people below it will have a chance at a decent existence*.

Till then Uncle Sam's is one of the worst countries in the world as regards Income Disparity. Shame on him ... !

*But their children will never escape it without free Tertiary Education that gives them the means to have the work-credentials that will offer them a decent revenue above that of the national minimum-wage.

 

[Lafayette]

REPLICANT RULE

And why keep people dumb by withholding from them a free Post-secondary Education paid for by the Federal Government at state institutions of learning?

From Pew Research here: Educational divide in vote preferences on track to be wider than in recent elections

In Pew Research Center’s August survey, registered voters with a college degree or more education favor Clinton over Trump by 23 percentage points (52% Clinton vs. 29% Trump) in a four-way contest that included Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson (supported by 11% of voters with at least a college degree) and Green Party candidate Jill Stein (4%).

Replicant Rule: Keep 'em stoopid so we can manipulate them in elections ...

 

[Lafayette]

No, it doesn't. I've read several comments on "income inequality" and to many economists the "inequality" is the result of meritocracy - people with more skills, training an experience earn more.
.

Commentary, yes.

Show me the economic studies that PROVE the contention ... !!!

 

[Lafayette]

I pay you what i can afford and what value you bring. If all you bring is 7.25 then that is all you bring.

If you hadn't removed my posts i showed you those that make that. They either have no high school diploma or only a high school diploma.

and those states have only set the new floor at 12 dollars an hour. raising the floor only creates a new floor.
the fact that you do no understand this simple concept is why you struggle with these discussions

None of which explains the price of beer in China. If that was your intent. Only God knows.

For the Nth effing time: The MW is $7.50/hour and raising it to $12/hour will have no great effect upon the economy. Most economists are all for it now, who were not before because of high-unemployment that was refusing hiring even at the MW!

Wakey, wakey - the Great Recession has been over since America started creating jobs in 2014!!!!!

Because the problem with under-employment in America is twofold (and I am repeating myself here):
*American industry today no longer employs 50% of Americans. That's been gone for 20 years. It now employs 12% and robotics is the reason it will never ever increase. It is now the Services Industry sector that employs and will employ most workers - IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT CREDENTIALS.
*Without credentials workers end up selling hamburgers at any outlet that will pay them the minimum-wage. Which becomes decent when it is raised to $12 an hour and your hamburger costs 30 cents more. Minimum-wage jobs at $12/hour will boost Demand because the additional income will get spent! (Duhhhhh!)
*And, we need also a National Post-secondary Education system that allows people to obtain the advanced degrees at near-zero cost to them* that are now the bedrock for decent jobs at higher rates of compensation of the Service Industry jobs!

End of conversation on this matter with the dunces ...

*Btw, they are now more than half of our high-school graduates WHO DO NOT OBTAIN TERTIARY-LEVEL DEGREES!

 

[gdgyva]

Just one more reason why Replicant Dorks on this forum cannot get the notion through their THICK SKILLS that Hollywood remunerations are eccentric. With a 99% tax on all income above $5M a year that will stop-dead.

And, at the same time, if we raise the minimum wage (across the nation by means of a National Law) to that of the Poverty Threshold ($12/hour) people below it will have a chance at a decent existence*.

Till then Uncle Sam's is one of the worst countries in the world as regards Income Disparity. Shame on him ... !

*But their children will never escape it without free Tertiary Education that gives them the means to have the work-credentials that will offer them a decent revenue above that of the national minimum-wage.

Such a good thing you don’t live here then, right

I mean all you do is bash this country

Stay in France, and stop worrying about what we do here

Or get your ass over here and become part of the solution...not just a guy on the internet

 

[ludin]

None of which explains the price of beer in China. If that was your intent. Only God knows.

Actually it does for those people that understand this discussion.

For the Nth effing time: The MW is $7.50/hour and raising it to $12/hour will have no great effect upon the economy. Most economists are all for it now, who were not before because of high-unemployment that was refusing hiring even at the MW!

Actually, it does affect people. You raise the new poverty level to 12 dollars an hour. why? the people that were making 12 dollars an hour want a raise.
why? because what they were doing before earned them 5 dollars more an hour. Now you run into the problem that businesses can't afford to pay the 12 dollars
and hour and give raises to those people that were already making 12 dollars an hour or close to it.

Also it isn't just a cost to a business of ol that is 6 more dollars an hour big deal. it costs the business 8 more dollars an hour. why? taxes, insurance and other things
that businesses are required to keep on their employee's that are affected by pay raises.

the fact that you do not understand these simple based concepts make this impossible to discuss with you.
all you do is throw out platitidues every topic with 0 knowledge of how this stuff works.

Because the problem with under-employment in America is twofold (and I am repeating myself here):
*American industry today no longer employs 50% of Americans. That's been gone for 20 years. It now employs 12% and robotics is the reason it will never ever increase. It is now the Services Industry sector that employs and will employ most workers - IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT CREDENTIALS.
*Without credentials workers end up selling hamburgers at any outlet that will pay them the minimum-wage. Which becomes decent when it is raised to $12 an hour and your hamburger costs 30 cents more. Minimum-wage jobs at $12/hour will boost Demand because the additional income will get spent! (Duhhhhh!)
*And, we need also a National Post-secondary Education system that allows people to obtain the advanced degrees at near-zero cost to them* that are now the bedrock for decent jobs at higher rates of compensation of the Service Industry jobs!

End of conversation on this matter with the dunces ...

*Btw, they are now more than half of our high-school graduates WHO DO NOT OBTAIN TERTIARY-LEVEL DEGREES!

Under employement isn't that big of an issue. while there is no measurable statistic the BLM says that it is somewhere between that of the U6 and the U5 number.
so the U6 is about 7.65 and the U5 is about 4.8% so some where in that range is the number of under employed people. i will even conceed from a gallup poll
that it is possible of 14.7% as the upper end of the curve. so lets break this down a bit more.

Using PERT.

we can see that our Pessemistic value is 14.7 our mostly likely value is 7.6 and our optimistic value is 4.8.
(14.7+ (4*7.6)+4.8)/6= about 8.32.
with a simple standard deviation of 1.65 + or -

You are wrong on that one. there are 50% of americans no longer working. that does not mean they are not employable.
that is a false statement that you cannot support.

Yes normally to get high paying jobs you need to have more than a high school education. It requires some kind of formal training
and or knowledge and skill to find a decent high paying job. that is pretty much the way it has been for thousands of years.

actually it costs more than 30 cents as i have already explained. 30 cents might be the break even point, but there are other things that are affected by
this. businesses also don't go for break even points.

well sucks for those high school students.
they will be stuck flipping burgers.

 

[ludin]

REPLICANT RULE

And why keep people dumb by withholding from them a free Post-secondary Education paid for by the Federal Government at state institutions of learning?

From Pew Research here: Educational divide in vote preferences on track to be wider than in recent elections

Replicant Rule: Keep 'em stoopid so we can manipulate them in elections ...

Sanders proposed free education. he couldn't pay for it.

it is easy to say everythings free whens spending other peoples money.

PS you never actually answered the question.

why do you not give up your pay to someone else that makes less than you so they can make the same?
if you are unwilling to give up your own pay to someone else so they can make more you can hardly expect
anyone else to.

but that simply shows how hypocritical you are.

 

[Bullseye]

Commentary, yes.

Show me the economic studies that PROVE the contention ... !!!

Don't need a study to show highly skilled people gat paid more than underskilled ones. Ask your Doctor if he's earning minimum wage, then as the people cleaning your office. That's all the study you need.

 

[Kushinator]

Useful data:

The last graph is income tax receipts as a percentage of gross domestic product with a reference to the top income tax rate.

 

[Lafayette]

Don't need a study to show highly skilled people gat paid more than underskilled ones. Ask your Doctor if he's earning minimum wage, then as the people cleaning your office. That's all the study you need.

Pathetic nonsense.

You're understanding of how a Market-economy works is zilch ...

 

[Lafayette]

Sanders proposed free education. he couldn't pay for it.

it is easy to say everythings free whens spending other peoples money.

if you are unwilling to give up your own pay to someone else so they can make more you can hardly expect
anyone else to.

but that simply shows how hypocritical you are.

Free Tertiary Education is not a problem in a rich country like the US that wastes its money on the DoD:

Where's the effing war that justifies the above aberrant DoD budget ... ?

 

[Bullseye]

Pathetic nonsense.

You're understanding of how a Market-economy works is zilch ...

Sorry, you appear to be a highly-educated idiot, totally out of touch with how the real economy actually functions as so engrossed in academic jabberwocky as to be unable to see truth when it is put in front of you.

 

[Bullseye]

Free Tertiary Education is not a problem in a rich country like the US that wastes its money on the DoD:

Where's the effing war that justifies the above aberrant DoD budget ... ?

Free tertiary education would make it almost worthless.

 

[Lafayette]

Suit yourself. The less people in the I'm gonna get rich pool the better chance those in it have to succeed.

Yeah, the economy is all about Me, Me, Me ... and YOU CAN GO TO HELL.

What a disgraceful way to live ...

 

[Lafayette]

sorry, you appear to be a highly-educated idiot, totally out of touch with how the real economy actually functions as so engrossed in academic jabberwocky as to be unable to see truth when it is put in front of you.

kma ...