• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Universities: Devoted to Truth or Social Justice?

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,845
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Something that's been of interest to me ever since my own campus days.

Why Universities Must Choose One Telos: Truth or Social Justice | HeterodoxAcademy.org

[FONT=&quot]Aristotle often evaluated a thing with respect to its “telos” – its purpose, end, or goal. The telos of a knife is to cut. The telos of a physician is health or healing. What is the telos of university?[/FONT][COLOR=black !important][FONT=&quot]The most obvious answer is “truth” –- the word appears on so many university crests. But increasingly, many of America’s top universities are embracing social justice as their telos, or as a second and equal telos. But can any institution or profession have two teloses (or teloi)? What happens if they conflict?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black !important][FONT=&quot]As a social psychologist who studies morality, I have watched these two teloses come into conflict increasingly often during my 30 years in the academy. The conflicts seemed manageable in the 1990s. But the intensity of conflict has grown since then, at the same time as the political diversity of the professoriate was plummeting, and at the same time as American cross-partisan hostility was rising. I believe the conflict reached its boiling point in the fall of 2015 when student protesters at 80 universities demanded that their universities make much greater and more explicit commitments to social justice, often including mandatory courses and training for everyone in social justice perspectives and content.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=&quot]Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable. Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict.[/FONT]

Read the whole thing.

Here's a Harvard student who makes no bones that Truth -- and academic freedom -- should give way to Social Justice:

The Doctrine of Academic Freedom | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson
 
Truth=Social Justice.
 
Something that's been of interest to me ever since my own campus days.

Why Universities Must Choose One Telos: Truth or Social Justice | HeterodoxAcademy.org

Read the whole thing.

Here's a Harvard student who makes no bones that Truth -- and academic freedom -- should give way to Social Justice:

The Doctrine of Academic Freedom | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

A research university may not avoid the Truth in its quest for discovering Perfect Knowledge.

A teaching university may not avoid teaching about social justice.
 
No, ma'am. "Social justice" is an inherently subjective construct. Truth is not.

There is an inherent truth with treating others equally and kindly.
 
There is an inherent truth with treating others equally and kindly.

Even if this statement were logically sound, which it isn't, it still would not support the claim that "Truth = Social Justice."

Not least because "treating others equally and kindly" may be your own definition of "social justice," it certainly isn't the only one, nor is it even a particularly helpful one -- who are the "others"; what does it mean to treat them "equally"? And it doesn't take a whole lot to envision scenarios where "justice" would not involve treating someone "kindly" OR "equally."
 
Last edited:
Social justice is fine, the problem is this explosion of hypersensitive, liberal reactionary whining that has swept campuses. It has little to do with justice and advancement, and more about authoritarian, social control.

I don't think we should let the PC loons continue drag that phase through the mud. Though I do enjoy the label "SJW." :lol:

Not hard to understand the sentiment though with the torrent of propaganda on safe spaces, cultural propitiation, and anti-free speech. And, of course, the jewel of "only white people can be racist," which is used by non-white racists to cover their bigoted sentiments.
 
There is an inherent truth with treating others equally and kindly.

Aww how cute, I bet you think 3rd wave feminism is only about equal rights for women too huh?

When Social Justice Warriors oppose free speech they are NOT on the side of truth. Calling it Social Justice is a bull**** Alinsky Tactic, like the name of BLM. Because when asked who could say they don't "support social justice."
 
There is an inherent truth with treating others equally and kindly.
.
This is where everything falls apart. In many cases social justice warriors are not seeking equal treatment and in many cases they treat those whom disagree very unkindly.
 
Aww how cute, I bet you think 3rd wave feminism is only about equal rights for women too huh?

That's what happens everytime you try to criticize 3rd wave Feminism: it always goes back to the dictionary definition.
 
Something that's been of interest to me ever since my own campus days.

Why Universities Must Choose One Telos: Truth or Social Justice | HeterodoxAcademy.org



Read the whole thing.

Here's a Harvard student who makes no bones that Truth -- and academic freedom -- should give way to Social Justice:

The Doctrine of Academic Freedom | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

She certainly convinces me that the USA is in grave danger, if that kind of thinking is wide spread in top academic elites. That is as bad as it comes.
 
That's what happens everytime you try to criticize 3rd wave Feminism: it always goes back to the dictionary definition.

Damn dictionaries! If we burn them or nail them shut, we could keep to the Good new meanings that are neither offensive nor unjust.

;)
 
That's what happens everytime you try to criticize 3rd wave Feminism: it always goes back to the dictionary definition.

It's known as the "victory by definition" fallacy. It basically involves trying to arbitrarily redefine reality in such a way that it's impossible for a certain position to be wrong.

The Chinese tried this in the Korean war, for example - Arguing to the UN that it was impossible for China to be the aggressor in the conflict, because China is, "by definition," a "peaceful" nation.
 
The public university is a place for learning, debate, and skepticism.
 
That's what happens everytime you try to criticize 3rd wave Feminism: it always goes back to the dictionary definition.

It's never enough to quote the definition. One must supply the context.

That's why each wave of feminism could be critiqued by feminists, misogynists, or anyone in between.
 
It's never enough to quote the definition. One must supply the context.

I thought Universities were a place to learn how to become a professional protester?
 
I thought Universities were a place to learn how to become a professional protester?

It seemingly depends on the university administration and the decade in which they reside, doesn't it.

Back in the 1960s, Berkeley students (later scattered among public higher education facilities up through the 1970s) thought they ought to be able to create their own program of study and the curriculum for each course (including protesting or looking at topics purely through one discursive method), because the regular programs were "too oppressive" and not "expressive" enough.
 
I would propose that the purpose of public education (regardless of level) is to provide citizens with a "basket of tools" (reading, writing, mathematics) that give them the skills to understand "how to think".

I would further assert that other "purposes" of education (truth, social justice, etc) are teaching/telling citizens "what to think". IMO, teaching/telling citizens "what to think" is far more propaganda than education.

Thus, the question "Universities: Devoted to Truth or Social Justice?". Is misleading and irrelevant. Institutions which are devoted to Truth or Social Justice are not universities but rather institutions of propaganda.
 
It has been my opinion for some time that Universities today are doing a grave injustice to the students that attend.

Justice Studies
African American Studies
Latino & Hispanic Studies
LGBQT Studies

Children flood into these majors thinking that the end result will give them a BA in some sort of productive coursework that will make them marketable.

They end up with a degree in victimhood.

If you're not the STEM type, and while I have a more than average interest in all of those, I'm definitely not a STEM type, my advice to the youth of today is go into Finance, Business, Economics... Gaining degrees in theses fields will allow them to do more as a "Social Justice Warrior" than anything that the previously mentioned degrees of victimhood could ever do.
 
It has been my opinion for some time that Universities today are doing a grave injustice to the students that attend.

Justice Studies
African American Studies
Latino & Hispanic Studies
LGBQT Studies

Children flood into these majors thinking that the end result will give them a BA in some sort of productive coursework that will make them marketable.

They end up with a degree in victimhood.

If you're not the STEM type, and while I have a more than average interest in all of those, I'm definitely not a STEM type, my advice to the youth of today is go into Finance, Business, Economics... Gaining degrees in theses fields will allow them to do more as a "Social Justice Warrior" than anything that the previously mentioned degrees of victimhood could ever do.
I agree with the idea that universities can negatively impact a young adult by offering useless majors. I don't really agree with the premise of this thread being that social justice is sweeping campuses across the nation and destroying higher education. There are stories of individual professors acting like idiots, and some amount of students doing the same, but I doubt it is reflective of modern colleges and universities as a whole.
 
Back
Top Bottom