UK PM Theresa May announces plan to call snap general election on 8 June.

[Andalublue]

He called it almost socialist in making sure that the richer and more able pay for their own healthcare and thinking about it, he's right. If you are at the bottom, you won't have £100,000 assets easily at hand.

He's not right. Unless you're at the very bottom, you will have £100,000 if you own your own home, and that's 64% of all homes in the UK. Let's remember, that's the difference she's making to the Dilnot recommendations: homes are now to be taken into the equation. It's now the case that should you be unlucky enough to suffer from dementia of any kind, your heirs will be able to inherit no more than £100,000. Personally, I'm not opposed to that, but I doubt a large proportion of Tory pensioners will be happy about it.

Haha, no you don't. In the same way I won't class all Labour MPs or Labour members as momentum people, you can't get away with broadbrushing all British conservatives as another.

'Tory' is to Conservative as 'Momentum' is to Labour? I don't think so. You're having yourself on, IC.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

He's not right. Unless you're at the very bottom, you will have £100,000 if you own your own home, and that's 64% of all homes in the UK. Let's remember, that's the difference she's making to the Dilnot recommendations: homes are now to be taken into the equation. It's now the case that should you be unlucky enough to suffer from dementia of any kind, your heirs will be able to inherit no more than £100,000.

Well, the pressure from the media is forcing a U-Turn. This had all the signs of being Theresa May's "Poll-Tax" but I think she 's still got some more turning to do.
Yesterday on Andrew Marr, the Conservative spokesperson happily stated that £100,000 is an OK inheritance for everyone (except the richest obviously who are paying for private healthcare.

Personally, I'm not opposed to that, but I doubt a large proportion of Tory pensioners will be happy about it.

Exactly, some commentators are pointing out this is quite a socialist idea. The rich paying more, however what irks me is that many people have paid all their working lives into this pot and should benefit equally.

'Tory' is to Conservative as 'Momentum' is to Labour? I don't think so. You're having yourself on, IC.

Y'see. It's OK for you to make that kind of broadbrush but not for me?

 

[Andalublue]

Y'see. It's OK for you to make that kind of broadbrush but not for me?

So you're saying that not all Conservatives are Tories? Who would you say is a non-Tory Conservative? I can certainly provide you with hundreds of names of non-Momentum Labourites. :shrug:

 

[Andalublue]

Well, the pressure from the media is forcing a U-Turn. This had all the signs of being Theresa May's "Poll-Tax" but I think she 's still got some more turning to do.

Yeah, just heard that. 'Strong and stable' is looking a bit weak and wobbly at the moment, isn't it? When it comes to electoral campaigning she's no Cameron or Blair, is she? More of a Major or Brown.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

So you're saying that not all Conservatives are Tories? Who would you say is a non-Tory Conservative? I can certainly provide you with hundreds of names of non-Momentum Labourites. :shrug:

~ she's a dyed-in-the-wool Tory after all.

You know as well as I do you tried broad brushing Conservatives with that statement.

Yeah, just heard that. 'Strong and stable' is looking a bit weak and wobbly at the moment, isn't it? When it comes to electoral campaigning she's no Cameron or Blair, is she? More of a Major or Brown.

I'm not wiling to support an incompetent and she is looking more and more like one. 2 major u-turns in 3 months is horrible. Not the fact she turned but that she put forward stupid policies to begin with.

 

[Andalublue]

2 major u-turns in 3 months is horrible. Not the fact she turned but that she put forward stupid policies to begin with.

It's 3 major u-turns:

1. "No snap General Election" said in public 11 times. What's happening now?
2. Budget pledge: large increase in NI contributions for the self-employed. What happened next? Yup, it's not 'in the spirit of the manifesto'. U-turn.
3. Dementia Tax - yesterday Damien Greene on Marr "no initial on contributions. No we won't change our minds." Today? Well, you know what's happened today.

Incidentally, Newsnight has just list three more u-turns she's done. I know she's got a bit of a thing for swanky red shoes, but I think Philip ought to buy her a pair of flip-flops; they're the only thing she seems comfortable in. :doh

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~

1. "No snap General Election" said in public 11 times. What's happening now?

I forgot that one thanks. Word is that came from Lynton Crosby's advice to jump while the polls supported her. Well, looks like she's blowing that lead.

Incidentally, Newsnight has just list three more u-turns she's done. I know she's got a bit of a thing for swanky red shoes, but I think Philip ought to buy her a pair of flip-flops; they're the only thing she seems comfortable in. :doh

As a leader she seems to be going for as incompetent as Ian Duncan Smith was, we had a majority and could have been better than this. My first thoughts that we made the right choice are sadly awry - but then, we could have had Boris Johnstone (my opinion has changed on him), Liam Fox or worse still... Andrea Leadsom with that stupid grin of hers.

Woe is me.

 

[William Rea]

I forgot that one thanks. Word is that came from Lynton Crosby's advice to jump while the polls supported her. Well, looks like she's blowing that lead.



As a leader she seems to be going for as incompetent as Ian Duncan Smith was, we had a majority and could have been better than this. My first thoughts that we made the right choice are sadly awry - but then, we could have had Boris Johnstone (my opinion has changed on him), Liam Fox or worse still... Andrea Leadsom with that stupid grin of hers.

Woe is me.

Strangely, I should be elated by this exposure of weakness but, it has just left me deflated to be honest. We should deserve better than this.

 

[gunner]

Strangely, I should be elated by this exposure of weakness but, it has just left me deflated to be honest. We should deserve better than this.

As a sign of respect, most people are refraining from politics. Today at least.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

As a sign of respect, most people are refraining from politics. Today at least.

My fault then, I posted my reply today that Will picked up on.

 

[William Rea]

My fault then, I posted my reply today that Will picked up on.

Not your fault that some people can't resist a cheap shot.

 

[gunner]

Not your fault that some people can't resist a cheap shot.

O look, Will playing the victim.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Not your fault that some people can't resist a cheap shot.

O look, Will playing the victim.

Don't make me start knocking heads together....

I'm the conservative voter, not either of you and I'm embarrassed by my party's recent performance.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Someone referred to May as the Irony Lady. It fits.

 

[William Rea]

Don't make me start knocking heads together....

I'm the conservative voter, not either of you and I'm embarrassed by my party's recent performance.

Not nearly as embarrassed as I am at the Blairites that are more conservative than the Conservatives these days.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Not nearly as embarrassed as I am at the Blairites that are more conservative than the Conservatives these days.

Well, I crossed over and voted Blair when we had Ian Duncan Smith as leader, I wasn't that enamoured of Michael Howard either.

Basically, if the leader is a pile of poo, I don't support them as I'm not a sheep. In this regard, I couldn't and wouldn't vote for Corbyn in a month of Sundays so you won't get me bashing gunner for not liking him either.

In the military you had to put up with the idiots who were sometimes in charge, the only protection we might have from sheer incompetence was an RSM made of steel. No such thing in civvy street so if I see leadership worth poo I'll tell it as I see it as there is no RSM or similar to put the Corbyn's of the world in their place.

 

[William Rea]

Well, I crossed over and voted Blair when we had Ian Duncan Smith as leader, I wasn't that enamoured of Michael Howard either.

Basically, if the leader is a pile of poo, I don't support them as I'm not a sheep. In this regard, I couldn't and wouldn't vote for Corbyn in a month of Sundays so you won't get me bashing gunner for not liking him either.

In the military you had to put up with the idiots who were sometimes in charge, the only protection we might have from sheer incompetence was an RSM made of steel. No such thing in civvy street so if I see leadership worth poo I'll tell it as I see it as there is no RSM or similar to put the Corbyn's of the world in their place.

Aren't we supposed to be voting for our constituency MP and not the leader?

IC, I can respect your position however, what you probably didn't do was attempt to tear the military apart from inside because you didn't like the leader. That is what I have no time or respect for.

 

[Andalublue]

Aren't we supposed to be voting for our constituency MP and not the leader?

IC, I can respect your position however, what you probably didn't do was attempt to tear the military apart from inside because you didn't like the leader. That is what I have no time or respect for.

I'm afraid that this has always been the case with the right-wing of the Labour Party. When the centre of gravity of the party is on the right, then party unity and discipline is everything. "Don't rock the boat!" "Get behind the leadership or you're damaging the party." When that gravity shifts left, all that is forgotten and then it's all about 'saving the party' for its real members, justifying not fighting for a Labour victory by attacking the leadership.

This isn't the first time this has happened. It happened in the early-Eighties with the right veering off and starting the SDP. It happened in the early-Sixties when Wilson defeated Brown and Callaghan and went on to be one of Britain's most successful PMs ever. The careerism of the Labour right is undeniable. They are only interested in a Labour victory provided they are the one's running the party. The left of the party is much more: "Well, a right-wing Labour government is better than a Tory government, so we'll do our bit and wait until the party comes around to our position." You've never seen the Labour left campaign against their own party in the way the Blairites are doing now.

 

[Manc Skipper]

One small comfort in all this is that Lynton Crosby's tactic of making this election about leaders has misfired, since May has shown incompetence from the start.
Give Andrew Neil his due, his comment on the "Dementia Tax" U-turn was a stonker! "This has to be a first, a government reneging on it's promises BEFORE the election!"

 

[Andalublue]

One small comfort in all this is that Lynton Crosby's tactic of making this election about leaders has misfired, since May has shown incompetence from the start.
Give Andrew Neil his due, his comment on the "Dementia Tax" U-turn was a stonker! "This has to be a first, a government reneging on it's promises BEFORE the election!"

I saw that. I can't say I've ever had much time for Andrew Neill; he's a reactionary and a real establishment hack, but that was about the first time I've seen anyone on the BBC actually putting a Tory on the spot. There was a terrible interview on 5Live this morning with Rachel Burden bowling easy balls at security minister Ben Wallace. Compare that with the aggressive attitude she took to John McDonnell last week and the difference is stark.

I'm currently listening to The World At One, and they are vox popping a marginal seat in Croydon about Corbyn's speech on security and FP this morning. They literally couldn't find anyone who disagreed with him. They found a couple who didn't like Corbyn, but his policies really seem to be cutting through.

This election could still have some life in it yet.

Labour still won't win, but the Tories might not get their landslide.

 

[gunner]

I saw that. I can't say I've ever had much time for Andrew Neill; he's a reactionary and a real establishment hack, but that was about the first time I've seen anyone on the BBC actually putting a Tory on the spot. There was a terrible interview on 5Live this morning with Rachel Burden bowling easy balls at security minister Ben Wallace. Compare that with the aggressive attitude she took to John McDonnell last week and the difference is stark.

I'm currently listening to The World At One, and they are vox popping a marginal seat in Croydon about Corbyn's speech on security and FP this morning. They literally couldn't find anyone who disagreed with him. They found a couple who didn't like Corbyn, but his policies really seem to be cutting through.

This election could still have some life in it yet.

Labour still won't win, but the Tories might not get their landslide.

I think the landslide that could've been, has gone. I still believe Corbyn will be convincingly beaten, but the 200 seat figure mooted around, is less likely. What I think I miss judged (policy aside) was how badly May would perform. I can't remember a PM who has had a more potentially receptive populace, before. She had pretty much everything stacked in her favour but she has been flat, unconvincing, and failed miserably to engage.

 

[Andalublue]

I think the landslide that could've been, has gone. I still believe Corbyn will be convincingly beaten, but the 200 seat figure mooted around, is less likely. What I think I miss judged (policy aside) was how badly May would perform. I can't remember a PM who has had a more potentially receptive populace, before. She had pretty much everything stacked in her favour but she has been flat, unconvincing, and failed miserably to engage.

At this point, I think the Tories will win a majority of 30-ish seats.

May's underperformance hasn't surprised me. I think she's a policy wonk with poor social skills. The BBC offered her a free hit with that One Show, ultra-soft interview and how did she come across? Like a robot. Even when she had a limited area of responsibility she was less than convincing (conflict with the police, failure to tackle immigration, the ongoing prison crisis) and now she's top dog, she is so not across her brief, hence the interviews like the Neill debacle. She must be bricking it when she looks forward to next week's QT.

 

[gunner]

At this point, I think the Tories will win a majority of 30-ish seats.

May's underperformance hasn't surprised me. I think she's a policy wonk with poor social skills. The BBC offered her a free hit with that One Show, ultra-soft interview and how did she come across? Like a robot. Even when she had a limited area of responsibility she was less than convincing (conflict with the police, failure to tackle immigration, the ongoing prison crisis) and now she's top dog, she is so not across her brief, hence the interviews like the Neill debacle. She must be bricking it when she looks forward to next week's QT.

Can't disagree. I thought (previously) considering what's stacked in her favour, she would put in some solid performance, how wrong I've been. Perhaps a more 'centralist' Labour leader would have had a shout

 

[Andalublue]

Perhaps a more 'centralist' Labour leader would have had a shout

Like Gordon Brown? Or Ed Milliband?

As an aside, doesn't Andy Burnham appear to be grabbing the publicity the Manchester bombing has offered him with both hands? I think he still thinks his time will come. I. Do. Not. Trust. Him.

 

[gunner]

Like Gordon Brown? Or Ed Milliband?

As an aside, doesn't Andy Burnham appear to be grabbing the publicity the Manchester bombing has offered him with both hands? I think he still thinks his time will come. I. Do. Not. Trust. Him.

I had nothing against Brown. Great leadership post crash.....not a great orator, but I can live with that, if the substance is there. Milliband? Wrong brother.