U.S. budget deficit widens; spending up on health, military

[MauiMan]

U.S. budget deficit widens; spending up on health, military - Reuters


How does one state they are against new spending, unless paid for with another balancing cut, then vote for massive revenue drops under the tax cuts and then have the gall to state they are against deficits.


I would not utilize these people for investment decisions.

Trump is done.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

We've all been scammed, no doubt about it. Programs that are anti-poverty programs have been cut while the rich got bigger tax cuts. It's a reverse Robin Hood scenario in the U.S. The rich steal more from the poor to give to the rich.

The U.S. infrastructure is crumbling. This morning news reported that Newark, New Jersey is experiencing a water problem like Flint, Michigan, lead contamination in city drinking water from lead pipes that were installed in the 1880's. Imagine, those pipes have been under the ground in Newark since before the Civil War began.

The lead contamination in Newark, N.J.'s, drinking water is not new a problem, but the city's fleeting solution has become newly problematic. Officials in Newark, the state's largest city, which supplies water to some 280,000 people, began to hand out bottled water Monday.

That's because the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has questioned water filters that the city distributed to residents. Last fall, Newark gave out more than 40,000 water filters, even going door-to-door to reach families with lead service lines. The toxin is believed to have leached into drinking water through the old pipes between water treatment plants and people's homes. Free filters and cartridges would remove "99%" of lead, the city of Newark said. But now, those water filters have been deemed ineffective by the EPA.

In January, Mayor Ras Baraka urged President Trump to help protect Newark's fraught water infrastructure systems instead of funding a wall at the U.S. southern border to deter migrants. "It will cost an estimated $70 million to replace the lead service lines in Newark," Newark, N.J., Hands Out Water Bottles After EPA Lead Warning : NPR

So while hundreds of thousands of people risk lead contamination that may lead to cancer, mental illness and birth defects, that wasn't urgent enough to appropriate $70 million to repair. But Newark is a poorer city, a lot of minorities and low income people. That's clearly why. If this happened in Palm Beach, Florida, it would have received the appropriations they needed swiftly because they're white and rich in Palm Beach. That is just a sad fact. Seventy million dollars is nothing to completely renovate and replace old lead water pipes. Trump's prototypes for his wall which are pretty much useless since they were constructed solely for the purpose of a photo-op with Trump in front of them. The cost of those was $4 million dollars.

Our country isn't the same and very possibly will never be a great, respected country again. We lost our sense of right and wrong.

I <SARC>don't see what you are so upset about. Those people CHOSE to drink the water. Now you are suggesting that people who had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the installation of the lead pipes should have their hard earned money taken away from them in order to pay for something that the people who CHOSE to drink the water could have easily avoided IF THEY HAD CHOSEN TO - which they didn't. If those people don't want to continue to drink the water, then all they have to do is CHOOSE to spend their own money to protect their own health rather than relying on some loony, left-wing, socialist, pinko, commie, so-called "government responsibility"</SARC> Right?
.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

My response is with respect to the quote that corporations can park money overseas. Much confusion exists with respect to international finance, and there are many voters who believe that corporations take money they earn in the U.S. and park it in overseas accounts. Sorry for any confusion.

Of course corporations DO NOT "take money they earn in the U.S. and park it in overseas accounts".

What corporations do is take money they earn in the US, invest in if overseas operations, and then park the profits from those overseas operations in overseas accounts.

That, of course, is totally different than taking money they earn in the U.S. and parking it in overseas accounts.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Trump is drastically underfunding the government. Hence the giant deficit.

Not true!

I am sure that Mr. Trump pays every single dime that his accountants and lawyers can convince the IRS he is required to pay in taxes - eventually.

 

[Media_Truth]

You have no idea how health care is paid for. Medicaid and Medicare do not pay their way as you describe. The deficits are huge and growing. That's why they are a budget problem. And the rich do pay for government, which the poor also benefit from. The rich pay for the social programs, the public education, the police and fire protection, the food stamps, the health care that are utilized by the poor. The rich pay the vast majority of taxes, therefore deserve the biggest tax cut.

As I pointed, the entire security of the United States is predominantly a benefit for the rich. Rich people like Trump avoid the military, and let the poor and middle class serve for them. They have the most to lose. As such, the upper-tier tax rate needs to be raised to over 50%. Historically, it was well over that percentage. Once a budget surplus is achieved, the rate can be lowered again.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

BTW; everybody got the same tax cut. The upper tier benefited more because they pay most of the taxes anyways, so their cut was more money but the same percentage. I'm good with that.

Aside from the fact that it isn't even remotely true that "everybody got the same tax cut", you overlook the fact that some people, when you factor in the elimination of the $4,150 "personal exemptions" will be paying tax on more income even though their "standard deduction" has increased from $12,700 to $24,000. For example a single income earner household of three people (you could think of them as "Mom", "Dad" and "The Kid") increases their deductions by $11,300 and decreases their deductions by $12,450 for a NET change of $-1,150. If that household is in a state where their state taxes (and they must chose ONE OF, state income tax, property taxes, or sales taxes) exceeds $10,000 then their NET change will be even more on the negative side.

For someone with a current taxable income of $10,000,000, the extra $425.50 (0.004% of taxable income) isn't even going to be noticed. For someone with a current taxable income of $21,000 the extra $138 (0.657% of taxable income) might well be missed.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Consider Nazi Germany. When the government was taken over, who lost the most - the RICH. They lost their estates, their bank accounts, their artwork, everything.

Now you know that that isn't quite correct. In Nazi Germany neither the rich nor the poor "racially pure and genetically sound" Germans lost as much as those non-Germans (who had previously been Germans) who were NOT "racially pure and genetically sound".

In fact both the rich and poor "racially pure and genetically sound" Germans benefited from the state policy of "convincing" those non-Germans (who had previously been Germans) that were NOT "racially pure and genetically sound" to give up their riches in order to preserve their own lives by being allowed to leave Germany (or simply by killing them and taking their riches).

The poor had nothing to lose, and continued living in the same places, working at the same factories.

True, until those living and working places were bombed into rubble.

Government is there primarily for the RICH, ...

A historical triteism.

... and they should foot the majority of the bill.

Historically regarded as heresy (if not downright treasonous) since "GOD" established that "The Gummint" was supposed to rule over everyone.

 

[HumblePi]

I <SARC>don't see what you are so upset about. Those people CHOSE to drink the water. Now you are suggesting that people who had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the installation of the lead pipes should have their hard earned money taken away from them in order to pay for something that the people who CHOSE to drink the water could have easily avoided IF THEY HAD CHOSEN TO - which they didn't. If those people don't want to continue to drink the water, then all they have to do is CHOOSE to spend their own money to protect their own health rather than relying on some loony, left-wing, socialist, pinko, commie, so-called "government responsibility"</SARC> Right?
.

Are you serious? "those people CHOSE to drink the water". That's about as out of touch with reality as I've seen here yet. And yes, people generally CHOOSE to drink water because without it they would die.

 

[bluesmoke]

My response is with respect to the quote that corporations can park money overseas. Much confusion exists with respect to international finance, and there are many voters who believe that corporations take money they earn in the U.S. and park it in overseas accounts. Sorry for any confusion.

Got it. Thx.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Are you serious? "those people CHOSE to drink the water". That's about as out of touch with reality as I've seen here yet. And yes, people generally CHOOSE to drink water because without it they would die.

1. <SARC> They could always buy bottled water and thus boost the American economy rather than waiting for some socialist solution to a problem that only arose because they CHOSE to fritter away their money of drugs and abortions</SARC> .

2. Mouse over the gaps.

 

[HumblePi]

1. <SARC> They could always buy bottled water and thus boost the American economy rather than waiting for some socialist solution to a problem that only arose because they CHOSE to fritter away their money of drugs and abortions</SARC> .

2. Mouse over the gaps.

They shouldn't have to 'buy' any water at all. The city of Newark is giving out bottled water to residents. It is the city's responsibility since it's their lead pipes that have been supplying the dangerous lead water to unsuspecting homes. And you're idea of city management is totally backwards. People pay TAXES to a city, everyone does, even you do. Those taxes are to pay for things like road management, schools, emergency services etc. But when there's a massive failure of infrastructure, the federal government holds a greater share of the responsibility.

I'm sure if Newark residents were forced to go to the store and pay for the bottled water for their family, the economy would get a huge boost towards paying down the 1.7 trillion dollar debt Trump just added to our deficit this year so far.

 

[Waddy]

As I pointed, the entire security of the United States is predominantly a benefit for the rich. Rich people like Trump avoid the military, and let the poor and middle class serve for them. They have the most to lose. As such, the upper-tier tax rate needs to be raised to over 50%. Historically, it was well over that percentage. Once a budget surplus is achieved, the rate can be lowered again.

It was never "well over that percentage". Deductions brought it down substantially. but you know that. You just choose to cherry pick your facts. And the really rich pay no taxes, because they do not depend on a paycheck. Unless you're prepared to tax wealth every year, you can't touch them. The security of the US benefits everyone. It creates the social mobility that offers opportunity to anyone. Most millionaires in this country are self made. And I say good for them; they created a lot of jobs in the process.

 

[bluesmoke]

Did you know that - under US law -

IF
a person is born in the United States of America to parents who are both (let's say) Canadian tourists, is then taken back to Canada within a couple of weeks, NEVER sets foot in the United States of America ever again, and doesn't even know that they were born in the US,

THEN​

they can have their Canadian bank accounts seized by the US government for non-payment of their American income tax (and could also be sent to jail [and/or fined] for failing to file their US income tax returns)?
​

Assuming that that person is male, they could also be prosecuted for failing to register with the Selective Service Commission.

"and doesn't even know that they were born in the US"

Not true. For the IRS to seize that person's accounts, that person would have to have been "knowingly and willfully to report" those foreign accounts to the IRS. In that case, the IRS could also seize property and income. I don't know about registering with the Selective Service, but I seriously doubt Canada would let the US have their way with a Canadian citizen in such a case.

 

[Media_Truth]

Now you know that that isn't quite correct. In Nazi Germany neither the rich nor the poor "racially pure and genetically sound" Germans lost as much as those non-Germans (who had previously been Germans) who were NOT "racially pure and genetically sound".

In fact both the rich and poor "racially pure and genetically sound" Germans benefited from the state policy of "convincing" those non-Germans (who had previously been Germans) that were NOT "racially pure and genetically sound" to give up their riches in order to preserve their own lives by being allowed to leave Germany (or simply by killing them and taking their

Certainly racism and nazi supremacy were factors. You are misinterpreting the message of my post. If you are part of the "defeated", after a government takeover, the "wealthy" defeated stand to lose much more than defeated peasants. Military security, along with it's funding, is predominantly a benefit for the rich.

 

[Media_Truth]

It was never "well over that percentage". Deductions brought it down substantially. but you know that. You just choose to cherry pick your facts. And the really rich pay no taxes, because they do not depend on a paycheck. Unless you're prepared to tax wealth every year, you can't touch them. The security of the US benefits everyone. It creates the social mobility that offers opportunity to anyone. Most millionaires in this country are self made. And I say good for them; they created a lot of jobs in the process.

Every time the top-tier tax rate has been raised, the effective tax rate has also increased. And this is despite deductions.

 

[Rogue Valley]

U.S. budget deficit widens; spending up on health, military - Reuters

How does one state they are against new spending, unless paid for with another balancing cut, then vote for massive revenue drops under the tax cuts and then have the gall to state they are against deficits.

No one bankrupts four casinos by caring about red ink

 

[washunut]

I remember right after the 1992 election, Al Gore came on the David Letterman show, with an ashtray. He talked about how the Federal Government had a contract to purchase that style of ashtray for 5x what we would pay in a store. Clinton and Gore tood the budget seriously. They worked with a Republican Congress. They raised the top-tier tax rate. They balanced the budget.

Bill Clinton could never be nominated in the democratic party of 2019/2020.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Bill Clinton could never be nominated in the democratic party of 2019/2020.

What policy differences are different from Clinton to Obama to Biden?

 

[Waddy]

Every time the top-tier tax rate has been raised, the effective tax rate has also increased. And this is despite deductions.

No, it hasn't. The truly wealthy don't work for a paycheck. They own businesses, and have investments. That's why people like Warren Buffet pay almost no tax. He's stated many times that he pays less than his secretary. However, what you say is often true for people in well paid professions, who draw a big paycheck. But they are way down the wealth ladder. So what you're saying is you want to tax professional people at a high rate.

 

[washunut]

What policy differences are different from Clinton to Obama to Biden?

You can't be serious.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You can't be serious.

Clinton tried to get a universal health care program in the US, Obama tried, I expect Biden will as well

Illegal immigration has been an issue long before Clinton, the Dream act was first introduced in 2001

Economically Obama was not much different than Clinton with the exception that Clinton was pres during the internet bubble.

Heck I doubt Hillary's policies are much different than Bill's and she was the Dem nominee just 3 years ago

 

[Media_Truth]

No, it hasn't. The truly wealthy don't work for a paycheck. They own businesses, and have investments. That's why people like Warren Buffet pay almost no tax. He's stated many times that he pays less than his secretary. However, what you say is often true for people in well paid professions, who draw a big paycheck. But they are way down the wealth ladder. So what you're saying is you want to tax professional people at a high rate.

You are misunderstanding my statement. Regarding, receipts to the Federal government - whenever the top tier tax rate has been raised, receipts have gone up. Therefore the effective tax rate has gone up, from the perspective of the Treasury Department. Individual taxpayers have always had deductions, including myself.

 

[Waddy]

You are misunderstanding my statement. Regarding, receipts to the Federal government - whenever the top tier tax rate has been raised, receipts have gone up. Therefore the effective tax rate has gone up, from the perspective of the Treasury Department. Individual taxpayers have always had deductions, including myself.

You're targeting the wrong audience. the rich don't pay income taxes.

 

[Media_Truth]

You're targeting the wrong audience. the rich don't pay income taxes.

Wrong...

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

They shouldn't have to 'buy' any water at all.

Why not? Isn't that what they do when they pay their utility bills?

Are you saying that some lazy, benefit sucking, probably criminal, illegal immigrant who isn't even in the category of people that the poem on the "Statue of Liberty" is all about and is living on welfare is ENTITLED to things that they don't pay for and for which the money is forcibly taken out of the pockets of patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriots?

What are you, some sort of **S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T**!!!?????

The city of Newark is giving out bottled water to residents.

Paid for by patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriots!!!

It is the city's responsibility since it's their lead pipes that have been supplying the dangerous lead water to unsuspecting homes.

If you want to point me to the specific clause that LEGALLY COMPELS the city government to provide water (of any nature) to anyone, I'll believe you. You can't.

And you're idea of city management is totally backwards. People pay TAXES to a city, everyone does, even you do. Those taxes are to pay for things like road management, schools, emergency services etc.

Those so-called "taxes" are nothing more that the blatant theft of the property of patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriots.

But when there's a massive failure of infrastructure, the federal government holds a greater share of the responsibility.

Where in the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that?

HINT - "It doesn't."

I'm sure if Newark residents were forced to go to the store and pay for the bottled water for their family, the economy would get a huge boost ...

Indeed it would and all patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriots should be doing that rather than whining about how "The Gummint" isn't being **S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** enough. That those social leaches CHOSE not to help themselves and prefer to fritter their money away of drugs and alcohol rather than on doing something that would actually improve their own situation (like getting jobs [or getting an education {or getting elected <or getting rich - or marrying someone who has lots of money ->}]) isn't something that any patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriot should waste a minute of their valuable patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN time on.

...towards paying down the 1.7 trillion dollar debt Trump just added to our deficit this year so far.

Another lie. The current year deficit is NOT EVEN as much as $1 Trillion dollars.

Not only that but is shows that you don't understand the difference between debt and deficit (which is a clear sign that someone is a **S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** rather than a patriotic, conservative, patriotic, honest, patriotic, hard-working, patriotic, AMERICAN patriot).

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