twenty years ago Columbine happened

[Phys251]

you mean you made the claim that THOUSANDS of children have been killed by guns at schools since Columbine and you had no evidence to back that claim up?

Oh Turtle, dear Turtle, I just gave you a way to falsify my claim. Are you going to take it or are you going to get huffy and puffy about it...again?

 

[TurtleDude]

The article I cited often counts more than actual shootings at school. Example, one case lists ten killed but that included the shooter shooting several family members before he went to school, where he killed five students and a security guard. so in reality, that incident-which lists 10 killed, only five were students at a school. Furthermore, some of those shootings (VA Tech for example) involve adult students killed at a university. If you add all of them up, you don't come close to 1000 deaths in 20 years

 

[TurtleDude]

Oh Turtle, dear Turtle, I just gave you a way to falsify my claim. Are you going to take it or are you going to get huffy and puffy about it...again?

You constantly tell lies on the gun forum. I proved that once again. So do you think you help your argument by posting blatant lies that are easily destroyed? or are you so ignorant of the topic, you really didn't know?

 

[Phys251]

You constantly tell lies on the gun forum. I proved that once again. So do you think you help your argument by posting blatant lies that are easily destroyed? or are you so ignorant of the topic, you really didn't know?

No need for the emotion. Just show me how to use Excel to tally up the numbers you provided, and we can prove you right.

Why pass up on this golden opportunity to prove me wrong, Turtle? You don't get these opportunities very often!

 

[TurtleDude]

No need for the emotion. Just show me how to use Excel to tally up the numbers you provided, and we can prove you right.

Why pass up on this golden opportunity to prove me wrong, Turtle? You don't get these opportunities very often!

you can look at the numbers in about 30 seconds and realize there is no where close to "thousands" as you dishonestly claimed.

 

[Phys251]

you can look at the numbers in about 30 seconds and realize there is no where close to "thousands" as you dishonestly claimed.

But it's gonna take me forever to format that spreadsheet with all those footnotes, tables, and other shit in there.

 

[TurtleDude]

But it's gonna take me forever to format that spreadsheet with all those footnotes, tables, and other shit in there.

Your limitations are not my concern. everyone else, I suspect, can look at that list for less than a minute and figure out you were lying or you made a claim with absolutely no factual support. If you really care, I suspect it would take you about 3 minutes to count up all the "deaths" listed from 2000-2020.

 

[Phys251]

Your limitations are not my concern. everyone else, I suspect, can look at that list for less than a minute and figure out you were lying or you made a claim with absolutely no factual support. If you really care, I suspect it would take you about 3 minutes to count up all the "deaths" listed from 2000-2020.

Wait. You seriously think I'm gonna tally that up by hand? Holy shit, this is adorable.

 

[TurtleDude]

Wait. You seriously think I'm gonna tally that up by hand? Holy shit, this is adorable.

well I bet its less than 300 and as I noted, that counts lots of adult deaths too. but then again, this is an area that I am well versed in so I knew when you told that whopper of a lie, that it was a lie

 

[Phys251]

well I bet its less than 300

Then just tally up the damn list already and be done with it! What's the holdup?!

...wait, too soon? Cause it's not like you respect human life anyway (sig #1)

 

[TurtleDude]

Then just tally up the damn list already and be done with it! What's the holdup?!

...wait, too soon? Cause it's not like you respect human life anyway (sig #1)

you made a claim. you refuse to back it up. BTW I never claimed to be "pro life". I once worked for planned parenthood as a security guard. So another failure on your part. Lying about gun issues, as you do, is not evidence that you respect human life.

 

[Phys251]

you made a claim. you refuse to back it up. BTW I never claimed to be "pro life". I once worked for planned parenthood as a security guard. So another failure on your part. Lying about gun issues, as you do, is not evidence that you respect human life.

Me: (makes dubious claim)
TD: YER A LIAR I KNOW YER WRONG
Me: Prove it
TD: Here's a link
Me: That's got a spreadsheet that would be difficult AF to format. Any tips on formatting?
TD: I'm just gonna keep attacking you
Me: I'm literally asking you to help me falsify my own claim, is that too much to ask?
TD: YES IT IS

This is why I love going round and round with you, Turtle. You never, ever cease to provide free entertainment.

 

[TurtleDude]

Me: (makes dubious claim)
TD: YER A LIAR I KNOW YER WRONG
Me: Prove it
TD: Here's a link
Me: That's got a spreadsheet that would be difficult AF to format. Any tips on formatting?
TD: I'm just gonna keep attacking you
Me: I'm literally asking you to help me falsify my own claim, is that too much to ask?
TD: YES IT IS

This is why I love going round and round with you, Turtle. You never, ever cease to provide free entertainment.

you lost, move on, even a ten year old kid could figure out that there is no where near 1000 deaths from school shootings in the last 20 years Find someone else to troll, this stupid conversation has run its course.

 

[Phys251]

you lost, move on, even a ten year old kid could figure out that there is no where near 1000 deaths from school shootings in the last 20 years Find someone else to troll, this stupid conversation has run its course.

Feel free to let me know when you're ready to do debate properly.

 

[Rich2018]

He used 60-100 mags, though.

Even more lethal, wouldn't you say ?

 

[Rich2018]

why don't you tell us what none of the other gun banners will ever tell us

why would someone who intends to

1) commit mass murder

2) use a firearm that he most likely is breaking 18 USC 922 merely by possessing

3) breaking state and federal laws by using a firearm to facilitate a crime of violence

would follow a magazine law? and don't tell me that such a law will cause the 300 million or more AR 15/M16 magazines to disappear or prevent someone with a 3D printer or who has a vocational HS level knowledge of sheet metal, from making one

Laws can also have the effect of prevention

For instance, the UK has about 20% of the population of the USA, but oddly enough, it doesn't have 20% of its mass shootings

Is this because the British people have markedly better mental health than the American people? Or might it be that there are many psychopaths in Britain that don't commit mass shootings because they're denied the tools in which to do so ?

(one, arguably two, mass shootings since 1996. The USA had 400+ in 2019 alone).

 

[TurtleDude]

Laws can also have the effect of prevention

For instance, the UK has about 20% of the population of the USA, but oddly enough, it doesn't have 20% of its mass shootings

Is this because the British people have markedly better mental health than the American people? Or might it be that there are many psychopaths in Britain that don't commit mass shootings because they're denied the tools in which to do so ?

(one, arguably two, mass shootings since 1996. The USA had 400+ in 2019 alone).

that is completely evasive and irrelevant. Obviously, a mass shooter is not prevented by the thought of a death sentence or life in prison plus the 10 years for using a gun in a crime of violence. But you pretend a magazine ban will limit him to ten shots

 

[Rucker61]

Feel free to let me know when you're ready to do debate properly.

Using the data in the link below, counting student deaths in shootings in K-12 schools since Columbine, I counted 114. You can check my math if you wish. That's 114 deaths in 130,000 schools meeting 180 days a year for 21 years.

Lists of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rich2018]

that is completely evasive and irrelevant. Obviously, a mass shooter is not prevented by the thought of a death sentence or life in prison plus the 10 years for using a gun in a crime of violence. But you pretend a magazine ban will limit him to ten shots

No, it's actually the stark bottom line

And no wonder that the gun lobby simply wishes to dismiss it

Banning high capacity magazines won't stop mass shootings today, won't stop them tomorrow, but it will, if not stop them, curtail the damage many of them cause

I don't expect you, or any member of the gun lovers community, to agree
You love your guns too much and have actually admitted the lives lost and destroyed in mass shootings are "insignificant".

 

[Rucker61]

No, it's actually the stark bottom line

And no wonder that the gun lobby simply wishes to dismiss it

Banning high capacity magazines won't stop mass shootings today, won't stop them tomorrow, but it will, if not stop them, curtail the damage many of them cause

I don't expect you, or any member of the gun lovers community, to agree
You love your guns too much and have actually admitted the lives lost and destroyed in mass shootings are "insignificant".

There are billions of "large capacity magazines" in the US, and the "ban" proposed by the Democrats grandfathers them.


How will a "ban" reduce the damage in mass shootings?

 

[TurtleDude]

No, it's actually the stark bottom line

And no wonder that the gun lobby simply wishes to dismiss it

Banning high capacity magazines won't stop mass shootings today, won't stop them tomorrow, but it will, if not stop them, curtail the damage many of them cause

I don't expect you, or any member of the gun lovers community, to agree
You love your guns too much and have actually admitted the lives lost and destroyed in mass shootings are "insignificant".

you're lying because either you are completely clueless about how many magazines-especially since AR 15s use military M4 magazines, are currently available, and how easy it is to make them. Your pathetic attempts to lay guilt on us is just that-pathetic. What is even worse, is that you have admitted your gun control schemes would result in criminals having a big edge over honest citizens. So you are happy pushing laws that get innocents killed so you can slake your fears of firearms

 

[TurtleDude]

There are billions of "large capacity magazines" in the US, and the "ban" proposed by the Democrats grandfathers them.


How will a "ban" reduce the damage in mass shootings?

anyone with a 3D printer or who has taken a vocational HS class in sheet metal can easily make a "high capacity magazine. The US military goes through millions of rifle mags. As I noted, a friend of mine-deployed in the Bush 1 war games-saw a pile of M16 mags with the anodization worn off them. He asked the armorer what was going to be done with them-and the armorer said they were being scrapped. So this guy, who when he was no Active duty, worked at the range where I shot, and soon to be rotated home asked if he could have them and the armorer said "sure". So he came home, a couple months after the Clinton Gun ban had been passed with pre ban mags-a bunch, and gave me and others at the range a bunch of them. They work fine-

 

[TurtleDude]

Using the data in the link below, counting student deaths in shootings in K-12 schools since Columbine, I counted 114. You can check my math if you wish. That's 114 deaths in 130,000 schools meeting 180 days a year for 21 years.

Lists of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I looked at them and many of the deaths involved

1) family members killed off campus

2) adults killed (such as a security guard, or teachers)

his thousands and thousands was a blatant lie, and if you read his comments, it is pretty clear he knew it was a lie

 

[TurtleDude]

Feel free to let me know when you're ready to do debate properly.

If your definition of debate is telling blatant lies, and then evading the fact that it was a lie, LOL

 

[Rucker61]

I looked at them and many of the deaths involved

1) family members killed off campus

2) adults killed (such as a security guard, or teachers)

his thousands and thousands was a blatant lie, and if you read his comments, it is pretty clear he knew it was a lie

I counted just K-12 children killed on K-12 campuses, regardless of time or gang involvement to maximize the included group, and still only hit 114 since Columbine.

Three times as many school age kids drowned in the bathtub, and over twice as many died choking on food in that same time period.

Just getting to and from school is more dangerous than a shooter in school:

https://safehavensinternational.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Relative_Risks_of_Death_in_US_K-12_Schools.pdf