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Tump Kim talks: What to make of the Hanoi summit collapse?

ObamacareFail said:
Sounds like TDS Trump is at least getting the message to North Korea and China that he will not be played like Carter, Clinton, Bush, and Obama were. You have to be willing to walk away from a bad deal. That worked out for Reagan as well.
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Please enlighten everyone about the time that Carter, Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Reagan chose to shower with praise a man that has tortured to death Americans.

You can love America, or you can love despicable Trump, but you can't do both. A patriotic president does not publicly shower with praise enemy dictators that have murdered, tortured and held American citizens as hostages. His 44 predecessors managed to never do that.

Stop and think about how history will judge Trump and those that supported him.
 
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Rexedgar said:
Tump Kim talks: What to make of the Hanoi summit collapse? - BBC News


“The "no deal" outcome could have been seen coming a mile away. Indeed, a serious reading of public North Korean statements since last year's Singapore summit would have revealed the core issue that resulted in a lack of agreement.
The day after the Singapore summit, North Korean state media paraphrased Kim Jong-un as noting Pyongyang would take "additional good-will measures" if the US took "genuine measures." By that date, North Korea had dismantled its nuclear testing site at Punggye-ri and announced a moratorium on nuclear tests and intercontinental-range ballistic missile tests.”


How will this play out?


Typo is BBC’s
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What to make of it? Not all progress is linear. How will it play out? I'm not optimistic but at least we've made some progress. I just hope we keep moving in the right direction.
 
humbolt said:
I suggest you look up North Korean Missile Overflies Japan.
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You might want to consider


There is no international agreement on the vertical extent of sovereign airspace, with suggestions ranging from about 30 km (19 mi)—the extent of the highest aircraft and balloons—to about 160 km (99 mi)—the lowest extent of short-term stable orbits. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale has established the Kármán line—at an altitude of 100 km (62 mi)—as the boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space, while the United States considers anyone who has flown above 80 kilometres (50 mi) to be an astronaut. Indeed, descending space shuttles have flown closer than 80 km (50 mi) over other nations, such as Canada, without requesting permission first.[4] Nonetheless, both the Kármán line and the U.S. definition are merely working benchmarks, without any real legal authority over matters of national sovereignty.
[SOURCE]
​

and also the fact that the DPRK missile was at approximately 500+ km whilst over Japan. Not even the United States of America claims that space at that altitude is "American Airspace".

You might also want to consider that there are quite a few satellites in Low Earth Orbit, and that is defined as the range from 100 miles (160 km) to 1,240 miles (1984 [no, really] km).

While the DPRK missile did "pass over Japan" it was not "within Japan's airspace" and the DPRK had/has as much legal right to put a missile/satellite into that position as does any other nation (which includes the United States of America) and doesn't have any obligation to get the permission of the government of Japan to do so.

In short, the rule of law that the United States of America subscribes to can be summarized as "Whatever is not forbidden is permitted." and the DPRK missile's flight path was NOT a "forbidden" one.

ASIDE - Whether the flight path was chosen so as to be "deliberately provocative" is a completely different matter.
 
To me it's simple: Trump didn't get the deal he wanted so he closed the summit.
 
Rexedgar said:
Tump Kim talks: What to make of the Hanoi summit collapse? - BBC News


“The "no deal" outcome could have been seen coming a mile away. Indeed, a serious reading of public North Korean statements since last year's Singapore summit would have revealed the core issue that resulted in a lack of agreement.
The day after the Singapore summit, North Korean state media paraphrased Kim Jong-un as noting Pyongyang would take "additional good-will measures" if the US took "genuine measures." By that date, North Korea had dismantled its nuclear testing site at Punggye-ri and announced a moratorium on nuclear tests and intercontinental-range ballistic missile tests.”


How will this play out?


Typo is BBC’s
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No deal is better than a bad deal, just like Reagan said at Reykjavik.....and I notice that Trump did not provide NOKO with light water nuclear reactors, or anything else, like Clinton did.

ALL SANCTIONS remain in place...
 
Bullseye said:
To me it's simple: Trump didn't get the deal he wanted so he closed the summit.
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The "summit" should have never been held...trump looked a total amateur...He was actually warned about North Korea, by President Obama (a real President) but got played...............Big Time
 
Grokmaster said:
No deal is better than a bad deal, just like Reagan said at Reykjavik.....and I notice that Trump did not provide NOKO with light water nuclear reactors, or anything else, like Clinton did.

ALL SANCTIONS remain in place...
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trump Summit=EPIC FAIL
 
rjay said:
Given the circumstances, in the end, Trump played it correctly

I think North Korea went into this thinking they may get something for nothing, again.
It looks like the message the U.S. side is sending, this time out, is those days are over.

I think it was the right message to send.
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I wonder where Kim got the idea that Trump was a sucker? Actually, Trump is a sucker. Just ask Putin. Fortunately he's not that big a sucker.
 
Saladin4 said:
The "summit" should have never been held...trump looked a total amateur...He was actually warned about North Korea, by President Obama (a real President) but got played...............Big Time
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Trumpophobe obviously affects your eyesight. Obama a "real president". nonsense.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Talks will continue.

I have no real interest in defending Trump but at least there is some degree of dialog with North Korea. The alternative is what had been going on during Bush 43's and Obama's time where it appeared the outcome would be eventual war.

No deal now does not mean there never will be one.
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I completely detest this man genetically, and have found exactly nothing this man has done since 2016 useful. but in this situation, he has probably done more good than harm. He has established an ongoing rapport with one of the most dangerously isolated leaders on the planet and he has managed to engage North Korea, without repeating the same useless patterns prior administrations did. These are actually slightly different failures and we can learn from them thereby. Instead of the usual bottom - up negociations, trying to include allies like South Korea and Japan as as partners,, he tried one on one direct leader to leader contact. Even though these talks appear to have failed just as miserably but publicly, Trump allowed for failure. He did not fabricate a success out of nothing and willingly walked away with relatively little harm done to either side and the dignity of both parties intact.

I think because it was so different an effort than Bush pere, Bush fils or Obama had tried, it was worth it. We still have the direct connections with a young and opportunistic North Korean leader available to try again -maybe for more incremental and small agreements next time .
 
btthegreat said:
I completely detest this man genetically, and have found exactly nothing this man has done since 2016 useful. but in this situation, he has probably done more good than harm. He has established an ongoing rapport with one of the most dangerously isolated leaders on the planet and he has managed to engage North Korea, without repeating the same useless patterns prior administrations did. These are actually slightly different failures and we can learn from them thereby. Instead of the usual bottom - up negociations, trying to include allies like South Korea and Japan as as partners,, he tried one on one direct leader to leader contact. Even though these talks appear to have failed just as miserably but publicly, Trump allowed for failure. He did not fabricate a success out of nothing and willingly walked away with relatively little harm done to either side and the dignity of both parties intact.

I think because it was so different an effort than Bush pere, Bush fils or Obama had tried, it was worth it. We still have the direct connections with a young and opportunistic North Korean leader available to try again -maybe for more incremental and small agreements next time .
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Any contact was worth a try...But where trump failed was giving Kim and North Korea a World stage, without any agreements...Hence the embarrassing fall out...trump seemed far more interested in "personal glory" than any constructive meaningful deal....The real breakthroughs have occurred between the South and North.....Without trump and his bumbling squad of toadies...In order to get a deal both sides will have concede certain conditions...That the Hardliners with in will no doubt oppose
 
Saladin4 said:
Any contact was worth a try...But where trump failed was giving Kim and North Korea a World stage, without any agreements...Hence the embarrassing fall out...trump seemed far more interested in "personal glory" than any constructive meaningful deal....The real breakthroughs have occurred between the South and North.....Without trump and his bumbling squad of toadies...In order to get a deal both sides will have concede certain conditions...That the Hardliners with in will no doubt oppose
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I recognize that you have identified the cost, but the trees and shrubs have been uprooted , and two slightly worn but readily followed dirt paths have been created for future foot traffic that may not be used by bumbling squads of toadies and with little effort, South Korea, North Korea and ourselves can keep those paths free from major incumbrances.
 
noonereal said:
Easy answer.

Trump is an idiot.

Instead of listening to his Intel agencies and studying history he seek advise from the Kremlin. There is no way anything can end well with this approach. Well, not for the USA anyway.
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Once again Trump sided with a dictator over his own intel. KJU, according to Trump, knew nothing about the beating and subsequent death of Otto Warmbier. He also believed Putin when he said he didn't hack our election. He let Saudi get away with murdering one of our journalists - yeah he's such a great guy.:roll:
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
See that is the thing, I don't rationalize any of that. I don't believe people should ever be assaulted because of who they support or their political beliefs. I don't believe people should be fired because of their personal beliefs. So I am not sure where you get that. Please provide an example of where I have ever rationalized such things on this forum.



Really? When have I ever done that on here? Unlike some on here, I call out pieces of **** regardless of their party or politics.
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Seeing as you just making false assumptions about me, somehow made them a legitimate point.

I decided to play by your rules. So that made my assumptions true in turn.
 
Saladin4 said:
Oh I guess the Summit was a Success.....Sure...trump looked a fool...No doubt President Obama was laughing somewhere
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No it wasn't a success just as Trump said it might not be. Why would Obama be laughing his bowing and apologizing and bad mouthing HIS country made him look the fool.
 
Bullseye said:
No it wasn't a success just as Trump said it might not be. Why would Obama be laughing his bowing and apologizing and bad mouthing HIS country made him look the fool.
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President Obama would never have called a summit, without some deal being agreed to...Unlike trump he wouldn't be played for a fool...Besides all the angry right wing types would have screamed a hollered about it, unlike now where the kiss trump's ass
 
Bullseye said:
No it wasn't a success just as Trump said it might not be. Why would Obama be laughing his bowing and apologizing and bad mouthing HIS country made him look the fool.
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You're ridiculous.

Trump literally stated he believed the word of a blood thirsty psychopathic murderer, who gets off starving his people and torturing family members.

It was also Trump that said Kim was his "good friend" who he has "fallen in love with", and it was Trump that recognized Kim as a legitimate leader on the world state and saluted his generals.

Trump is a national disgrace and an international humiliation for 56% of sane Americans.

You are everything you accuse your opponents of being.
 
MovingPictures said:
You're ridiculous.

Trump literally stated he believed the word of a blood thirsty psychopathic murderer, who gets off starving his people and torturing family members. It was Trump that said Kim was his "good friend" who he has "fallen in love with", and it was Trump that recognized Kim as a legitimate leader on the world state and saluted his generals.

You are everything you accuse your opponents of being.
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Agreed...trump was played for a fool...He so wanted an agreement so could brag and preen...He was warned by President Obama (a real President) and he ignored them...trump is a complete idiot
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
You realize you can talk to someone, even an enemy, and not shower them with praise, while at the same time, not insulting them. It is something that literally 44 previous presidents have managed to do. For example, Ronald Reagan and the Soviet Union, Richard Nixon and Mao's China, Kennedy and the Soviet Union, Eisenhower and the Soviet Union, Truman and Stalin, FDR and Stalin and so on.

The fact is, if Obama showered a man like Kim with praise, you know as well as I do that every Republican on here would be calling for him to face charges of treason.
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Compliments dont cost anything

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
It is well known even before the summit that NK would not accept anything less than full sanctions being removed. But Trump went anyway so desperate is he for accolades. He wasted the tax payers money with this summit, it was doomed to fail from the start. This is why we have a diplomatic corps and SOS, to negotiate.
 
So let me get this straight:
After 5 hours of discussions the two sides cannot even agree whether KJU insisted on 100% sanctions relief or not!

Does the word "ALL" not translate?

Gimmie a' break. Pure theater....pure theater. Its not even drama....its comedy.

Just for the record, Trump accepting KJU's "explanations regarding the US Student death is disgusting. But of course, Trumpets will continue to ball wash their boy Fat Donald.
 
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