Trump withholding millions in aid to Pakistan, as he accuses country of giving 'safe haven' to terro

[Lovebug]

Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it. Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians all tried to conquer Afghanistan & failed. We've been there 14 or 15 years. When will we wise up? The classic definition of a crazy person is someone who keeps trying the same thing but always gets the same negative result.

We aren't trying to conquer last time I checked.

 

[Lovebug]

I've been waiting since 21 December for Trump to punish all who dared cross his Jerusalem red-line. Still waiting.

Eat your cookies and wait. Good things take time. Bad things do too. Somehow I am almost certain that none of this is as simple as a few opinions on the web.

 

[Serenity]

Social Media is fast becoming the only way for the current administration to get their message unfiltered through a hostile media out to the people...

No, it's not. Discussions such as this should be held directly with the relevant parties involved, not announced via twitter.

Consider also that the the administration first said in August (which WAS reported accurately through multiple media outlets) that it was temporarily withholding the $255 million, which was part of a $1.1 billion aid package authorized in 2016 by Congress. An announcement was made that the money was put on hold until Pakistan agreed to do more to combat terrorist networks.

There is simply no need at all for the President to be utilising twitter in such a way.

 

[Soopairik]

Social Media is fast becoming the only way for the current administration to get their message unfiltered through a hostile media out to the people...

Maybe the media has a point.

 

[cpwill]

Agreed. They still haven't given us an adequate explanation as to how the most wanted man in the world could live near an army base unnoticed.

I have a Government Razor (similar to Occam's Razor): when a possible explanation for why something is messed up is "incompetence in government", then it's plausible.

 

[cpwill]

No, it's not. Discussions such as this should be held directly with the relevant parties involved, not announced via twitter.

Consider also that the the administration first said in August (which WAS reported accurately through multiple media outlets) that it was temporarily withholding the $255 million, which was part of a $1.1 billion aid package authorized in 2016 by Congress. An announcement was made that the money was put on hold until Pakistan agreed to do more to combat terrorist networks.

There is simply no need at all for the President to be utilising twitter in such a way.

I can think of plausible reasons why this could be part of a coordinated messaging campaign.

I just don't see any other indicators of that, and thus find it very unlikely.


This is a policy with some things to recommend it being pursued very badly.

 

[Saladin4]

Social Media is fast becoming the only way for the current administration to get their message unfiltered through a hostile media out to the people...

trump looks like an idiot spitting out his stupid tweets insulting other nations....China and Russia stand ready to take the place of America at a moments notice if trump with holds aid

 

[joG]

What exactly should we do? For a decade we've been asking 'pretty please' and that certainly doesn't work.

I am afraid that we have let the window of opportunity all but close. All we can do is go on as before.

 

[joG]

Like UBL (that's CIA NEWSPEAK for Osama Bin Laden). I know people who work there.

If UBL had been the only one, a lot woild be fine that isn't.

 

[DaveFagan]

Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it. Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians all tried to conquer Afghanistan & failed. We've been there 14 or 15 years. When will we wise up? The classic definition of a crazy person is someone who keeps trying the same thing but always gets the same negative result.

Think. We must not be doing the same thing. It's the same as sloppin' the hogs (feeding time). Afghanistan is the sloppin' trough for the Military Industrial Corporate Complex. It grows as long as you feed it. If you win or lose the war, the feed trough gets empty. Afghanistan is the gift that keeps on giving, don't ya' know? You really didn't think we are/were spreading freedom, democracy, liberty and justice, did you?
/

 

[Buzz62]

Does anyone still believe wars are meant to be won or lost?

As for Pakistan...****-em.

 

[sanman]

trump looks like an idiot spitting out his stupid tweets insulting other nations....China and Russia stand ready to take the place of America at a moments notice if trump with holds aid

Pakistan has already decided to bring in China to replace the USA:

China Military Base In Pakistan | The Daily Caller

A Chinese naval base at the mouth of the Straits of Hormuz, the world's most sensitive strategic chokepoint, through which a huge amount of maritime oil traffic passes, is about to become Pakistan's biggest backstab yet to America.

 

[MSgt]

And when we leave that country for real, tell me, who do you think will take over?

It doesn't really matter. Our only problem with Afghanistan was Al-Qaeda; and that was only because of 9/11. Whatever happens to Afghanistan will be Pakistan and Iran's problem. It was their problem before when Iran was supporting the Northern Alliance against the Taliban and Pakistan was supporting the Taliban against the Northern Alliance. As a population, and most of the government's security apparatus, we didn't even care.

But I suspect that Afghanistan will do exactly what all the rest of the area is doing or will eventually do. They will split off into factions, war, and come out the other side. This is what happens when populations spend over a century smashed together behind bad borders, unable to come to political common ground because their autocratic leaders pit tribe against tribe and torture out opposition. The awkward thing about Afghanistan (and perhaps why their historical federation of territories worked as a system) is that Afghanistan's borders were never really formed. Afghanistan is what was left after surrounding countries made theirs.

And we already know that ISIS is looking to set up safe haven there....

Let them. IS was always a local issue anyway. But IS will have to fight the Taliban for it, while the government (and the North) fight both.

Wouldn't we just be repeating the scenario that led to 9/11?

Not likely:

Immediately after 9/11, extremist organizations throughout the region were quick to declare that they had no part of it. This was reminiscent of the Luxor massacre in 1997 where Islamist massacred and mutilated 62 people, mostly Western and Asian tourists. This attack was aimed at Egypt's economy. Exiled Islamist leaders were absolutely shocked and they immediately condemned the act. The Muslim Brotherhood condemned it, gutted out their splintered and more autonomous organizations, and announced to the Egyptian government & population that they would only support policies of non-violence and would work for change only through the political system. (By the way, this shift in policy was some of the reason why Morsi won the election in 2012.)

Like that incident near Luxor, Islamist leaders and organizations knew that Osama Bin Laden went too far. Not only did all Arab governments condemn it, so did Iran. Islamist leaders, not of Al-Qaeda, distanced themselves and hoped a bomb wasn't aimed at them. The Taliban, playing the cultural host and somewhat stuck defending their guest, soon found that out too. And given the wreckage we helped bring throughout the MENA after 9/11, no government is going to allow an international terrorist group like Al-Qaeda threaten their own power by shrugging at a possible future 9/11.

Besides this, there are two things to consider:

1) 9/11 happened because Saddam Hussein consistently played border games with Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan, which led to the U.S. exponentially growing a military presence in the "holy land."

2) In 2003, Robert A. Pape, the current director of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism (CPOST), completed a study in which he investigated all 315 global suicide terrorist attacks between 1980 and 2003. What all suicide campaigns across the world had in common was the goal of compelling democracies to withdraw military forces from the terrorists' national homeland. This means that terrorists aim their violence towards the emotions of the people who politically choose their leaders (think Bin Laden and 9/11).

This also means that suicide terrorism is a calculated weapon of last resort. It is not and can not be summed up as just some irrational act of douchery. Once "rebels" or religious extremists run out of conventional or guerrilla options, suicide terrorism becomes their last coercive strategy and this latest wave of suicide terrorism largely began in 1980. It continues because in the early 1980s, it proved to work. But Saddam Hussein is no longer the thorn that snags us in the heartland.

 

[Lerxst]

I say that in terms of the supposed "Peace process" involving the West Bank....We should be aligned with Israel...They are the historical, and rightful people of that territory...And tip toeing around the fact that the so called "Palestinians" want that land, should be met with the simple fact that Palestine is a pipe dream. This is Jewish land, and always be such....And as an ally in the region, Israel should be able to depend on our support regardless of how loud the anti Semites are in this nation.

Yeah, we aren't going to agree on that. Historical people? No more so than the Muslims. The fact is, their massive migration from European countries after World War 2, where the migrant Jews lived, ultimately resulted in massive numbers of Palestinians, who already lived there, being displaced and eventually placed into what amounts as two large internment camps (Gaza Strip and the West Bank).

It's no more the "Jewish" land than it is the "Islamic" land. The U.S. should have never been a party to that. And what do you mean be "so-called Palestinians?" They are actual Palestinians. This is an established fact. The relationship we have had with Israel has been a cancer to our Middle East relations for decades. You obviously don't feel the same so rather than digress into a morass of potential forum violations regarding the discussion of the Palestine-Israel problem, I will respectfully disengage on the topic in this thread. I am sure we will find other opportunities to debate our respective positions on this subject. Have a good one.

 

[cuban smokes]

It's about frickin time.....For at least a decade now I have been questioning Pakistan's actual loyality to us as an supposed ally...

If Trump withholds ALL aid, from ALL nations, then get back to me, otherwise it's just pure bull**** .................

 

[stevecanuck]

No, it's not. Discussions such as this should be held directly with the relevant parties involved, not announced via twitter.

Consider also that the the administration first said in August (which WAS reported accurately through multiple media outlets) that it was temporarily withholding the $255 million, which was part of a $1.1 billion aid package authorized in 2016 by Congress. An announcement was made that the money was put on hold until Pakistan agreed to do more to combat terrorist networks.

There is simply no need at all for the President to be utilising twitter in such a way.

Isn't talking about his use of twitter a different topic?

 

[Saladin4]

If Trump withholds ALL aid, from ALL nations, then get back to me, otherwise it's just pure bull**** .................

Most of threats are just trump running his mouth...The US Military depends on these nations for bases and to sell them Military weapons...trump is a loud mouth idiot

 

[SheWolf]

It's about frickin time.....For at least a decade now I have been questioning Pakistan's actual loyality to us as an supposed ally...

Trump said he will give the aid back if they promise to fight terrorism better, so this entire threat makes him look like a blowhard. Either cut the funding or don't, but don't make another country bow and kiss the ting.

Their military does fight terror. They responded when Taliban attacked a children's elementary school. The country then responded by reinstating the death penalty for people convicted of terror.

If Trump wants to pull the aid, he can, but it's a bull**** move. Why would he even want to cut aid that's for fighting terror? I really think it all comes down to his ME politics. He doesn't like Muslims. And if he really wanted to make a statenent, he would pull aid from Saudi Arabia. He would never do that though.

 

[SheWolf]

Trump is our 1st President with common sense in decades. No more diplomatic pc crap that did nothing but allowed our enemies to get stronger while the American taxpayer paid the price.

Pakistan is good with China. They could choose to dump the US.

 

[SheWolf]

Nothing here is really new. This $255 million earmarked for Pakistan has been on hold since August 2017.

Kinda reminds me of Trumps empty threat to withhold funding from any nation that voted 'yes' on the UN Jerusalem Resolution (128 nations).

If Trump were really serious, his administration would remove Pakistan as a major non-NATO ally (MNNA). Doing so would deprive Pakistan of US military equipment.

The US likes having PK as an ally, especially when meddling in proxy wars on their boarder.

My husband travels to Islamabad a lot. There are a lot of US citizens working there. The CIA and FBI has a really strong presence. My husband has met many of them.

 

[cuban smokes]

Most of threats are just trump running his mouth...The US Military depends on these nations for bases and to sell them Military weapons...trump is a loud mouth idiot

I was saying loooooooooooooooooooooooong before Trump was ever on the political radar screen: Cut ALL aid to ALL nations.

The US needs to get our own **** together, in our own backyard.
We have absolutely no business whatsoever telling anyone, anywhere, how to run their ****, when we can't even run our own **** ..........

 

[SheWolf]

Eat your cookies and wait. Good things take time. Bad things do too. Somehow I am almost certain that none of this is as simple as a few opinions on the web.

More than likely not going to happen.

 

[SheWolf]

No, it's not. Discussions such as this should be held directly with the relevant parties involved, not announced via twitter.

Consider also that the the administration first said in August (which WAS reported accurately through multiple media outlets) that it was temporarily withholding the $255 million, which was part of a $1.1 billion aid package authorized in 2016 by Congress. An announcement was made that the money was put on hold until Pakistan agreed to do more to combat terrorist networks.

There is simply no need at all for the President to be utilising twitter in such a way.

His base loves it. That's why he is doing it. And Trump is just trying to take credit. His tweet was a marketing scam. His supporters are practically enrolled in Trump University.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Pakistan is good with China. They could choose to dump the US.

You do understand that both Pakistan and China share antagonistic relationships with India, and all three are on war footing with each other? The Chinese and the Pakistanis don't trust each other. The Chinese have accused Pakistan of aiding and abetting (read that as arming) islamic separatists in China, and Pakistan is still accusing China of having designs on territory with Pakistan's border with China. Pakistan still holds animosity for China's backing (again read that as arming) Bangladesh during that separatist war.

A month or so ago, China and India announced mutual industrial cooperative agreements, with the hope of diminishing animosity between the two nations. Both have deployed additional troops on their mutual borders since 2009, but more so in 2015. Both have claimed a regional war is inevitable because of the other. China has its Black Lightening armored divisions posted to the Pakistani border. China prevented the deployment of Pakistani troops to Burma, Myanmar, when the Buddhists started slaughtering muslims there last summer. An action between "friends?"

Yeah, you got that right.

BTW, China has sent a delegate to Israel for exploring formal ties between the two nations. Something about those gas and oil fields discovered off the coast of Israel, larger than those originally of the Saudi Peninsula. Both Israel and China have employed the SinCo. Corp., a Saudi oil exploitation planning company, actually composed of American oil exploration and drilling tech companies backed by Saudi investment. China has discovered possible large oil fields in sparsely populated SW China.

 

[Serenity]

Isn't talking about his use of twitter a different topic?

Not sure where you are headed with that considering it is your only post in the thread.

Do you actually have anything to contribute to the topic?