Trump...wants to keep...cruise passengers on the ship so... virus #s dont go up

[Chomsky]

Sorry, if the option is the cruise lines take a 50% hit for a year or two, or go full country lockdown like Italy and China and France, I'm willing to let the cruise industry take the hit.

Yeah, but it's not a simple binary choice. Quite honestly, I believe we are well past the point of heading it off at the border. We already have substantial multiple community transmissions across the country. This will become apparent when the administration finally gets functional test kits out to the providers next week (hopefully).

I wouldn't waste my time on the CDC. Try using Johns-Hopkins, where you're getting data directly from the healthcare providers on the front lines, rather than data being filtered through the White House for your consumption. Where CDC is claiming 164 infected with 11 deaths, Johns-Hopkins is currently listing 554 infected with 21 deaths, with many more locations across the country.

Check out the interactive Johns-Hopkins map, including the outbreaks taking place across the country. I suspect you'll feel a little differently than when you listen to the CDC line from Pence or the CDC website:

(Johns-Hopkins) Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE

 

[ecofarm]

Ok, how do we quarantine 3500 people until they are tested? How many people were tested in the USA last week?

Test them in the boat (or nearby) and move the sick to quarantine and treatment.

It's not rocket science. Every medical professional in the world recommends this. Only Trump and his cultists prefer the Death Boat. The only reason they prefer the Death Boat is to support Trump, not because it makes any sense at all.

Leaving those people on the Death Boat without real medical facilities is practically killing them. Why? We have the facilities to test and quarantine. Let's employ medical facilities.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Test them in the boat (or nearby) and move the sick to quarantine and treatment.

It's not rocket science. Every medical professional in the world recommends this. Only Trump and his cultists prefer the Death Boat. The only reason they prefer the Death Boat is to support Trump, not because it makes any sense at all.

Leaving those people on the boat is practically killing them. Why? We have the facilities to test and quarantine. Let's employ medical facilities.

So now they have to stay on Death Boat until they are tested and medical and quarantine facilities are set up? What a good idea...

(That's exactly what is happening, by the way.)

Edit: Wrong point from the rest. Thank you Eco for the correction.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Yeah, but it's not a simple binary choice. Quite honestly, I believe we are well past the point of heading it off at the border. We already have substantial multiple community transmissions across the country. This will become apparent when the administration finally gets functional test kits out to the providers next week (hopefully).

I wouldn't waste my time on the CDC. Try using Johns-Hopkins, where you're getting data directly from the healthcare providers on the front lines, rather than data being filtered through the White House for your consumption. Where CDC is claiming 164 infected with 11 deaths, Johns-Hopkins is currently listing 554 infected with 21 deaths, with many more locations across the country.

Check out the interactive Johns-Hopkins map, including the outbreaks taking place across the country. I suspect you'll feel a little differently than when you listen to the CDC line from Pence or the CDC website:

(Johns-Hopkins) Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE

While it's not strictly binary, I'm more than comfortable dissuading people from international travel if it will help stop the spread of this disease. I can't see how people traveling to infected countries is going to help at all.

And thanks for the John Hopkins link; looks like a good one.

 

[ecofarm]

So now they have to stay on Death Boat until they are tested and medical and quarantine facilities are set up? What a good idea...

(That's exactly what is happening, by the way.)

Also, not every "expert" agrees:

US surgeon general says he thinks coronavirus is contained in certain areas of the country - CNNPolitics

But I don't vouch for him, or his opinion, of course.

Read again:

"should "absolutely not" be left on the ship."

Every medical expert agrees. It's moronic to have a Death Boat. The US can handle testing and then quarantining affected passengers.

It's wrong to pretend 3500 people (few of whom will test positive) overwhelms our medical system.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Read again:

"should "absolutely not" be left on the ship."

Ahh shoot. Good catch. Thank you for the correction.


I mean... that guy's a hack, what does he know!

 

[Chomsky]

While it's not strictly binary, I'm more than comfortable dissuading people from international travel if it will help stop the spread of this disease. I can't see how people traveling to infected countries is going to help at all.

And thanks for the John Hopkins link; looks like a good one.

You're welcome! :cheers:

 

[Chomsky]

Read again:

"should "absolutely not" be left on the ship."

Every medical expert agrees. It's moronic to have a Death Boat. The US can handle testing and then quarantining affected passengers.

It's flat moronic to pretend 3500 people overwhelms our medical system.

No they couldn't. They didn't have enough tests. They only tested 45 ppl. That's the problem. No tests.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Read again:

"should "absolutely not" be left on the ship."

Every medical expert agrees. It's moronic to have a Death Boat. The US can handle testing and then quarantining affected passengers.

It's flat moronic to pretend 3500 people overwhelms our medical system.

Just 3500 people in one dock who need complete quarantine until they can be tested with test kits that only began to ship in proper numbers a few days ago.

 

[ecofarm]

No they couldn't. They didn't have enough tests. They only tested 45 ppl. That's the problem. No tests.

We don't need to use test kits if we employ an actual medical facility. A hospital is capable of testing without a kit. I think the world's superpower is capable of transporting and testing 3500 people.

 

[ecofarm]

Just 3500 people in one dock who need complete quarantine until they can be tested with test kits that only began to ship in proper numbers a few days ago.

An actual medical facility does not require a kit. The US is capable of transporting and testing 3500 people. This is not an insurmountable task for the world's superpower.

 

[vesper]

Really?

I strongly suggest you go. Granted once you've done them, that's probably enough. And they are long drives for most of us. But they are pretty important to do once in one's lifetime, in my opinion.

(I was super lucky I had a father that lived by taking driving vacations!)

When I was growing up our vacations were based around visiting both sets of grandparents. Mom's lived in Michigan and Dad's lived in Pennsylvania. They were always great. When we went to Michigan it included going to secluded lakes that had pristine water that you could walk up to your chin and see the fish swimming around you. One such place was Pratt Lake. Now only the wealthy live on the lake. My Aunt Grace had a cottage built of stones just a few yards from the lake and Uncle Frank had a boat and that is where we learned to water ski, fish etc. Aunt Marge lived in Midland and from there we went to the Upper Peninsula to Mackinaw Island another beautiful place. When we went to PA to visit my Dad's parents we were out in the country and learned how to ride a horse and learn about farm life. Good times. Good memories.

A lot of vacations for hubby, the kids and me were on the East coast in SC, NC, FL, VA including DC. and they were all road trips. Lots of good memories. Some years when money was tight we still took a vacation close to home like camping at Lake Erie the vacation from Hell where the alternator went out in our car in some small town in front of a rowdy bar.

 

[Chomsky]

We don't need to use test kits if we employ an actual medical facility. A hospital is capable of testing without a kit.

I'm not sure of that. Hospitals across the country are clamoring for kits because they can't test otherwise. I've seen senior people in hospitals on cable claiming that they can't test.

 

[ecofarm]

I'm not sure of that. Hospitals across the country are clamoring for kits because they can't test otherwise. I've seen senior people in hospitals on cable claiming that they can't test.

It's not that they can't test otherwise. They have the ability to draw blood and they have microscopes. They know what they're looking for. Kits are a means of expediting the test.

3500 people being transported and tested is within the ability of the world's superpower. Leaving people to die on a Death Boat is not an acceptable course of action.

 

[Metric Mouse]

An actual medical facility does not require a kit. The US is capable of transporting and testing 3500 people. This is not an insurmountable task for the world's superpower.

Absolutely. And that will happen once the logistics are worked out to ensure everyone's safety. That does take time, especially in such a dynamic situation as this. I hope they get moved soon; being isolated in a cruise ship cabin must be one of the most awful things I could imagine.

 

[Chomsky]

When I was growing up our vacations were based around visiting both sets of grandparents. Mom's lived in Michigan and Dad's lived in Pennsylvania. They were always great. When we went to Michigan it included going to secluded lakes that had pristine water that you could walk up to your chin and see the fish swimming around you. One such place was Pratt Lake. Now only the wealthy live on the lake. My Aunt Grace had a cottage built of stones just a few yards from the lake and Uncle Frank had a boat and that is where we learned to water ski, fish etc. Aunt Marge lived in Midland and from there we went to the Upper Peninsula to Mackinaw Island another beautiful place. When we went to PA to visit my Dad's parents we were out in the country and learned how to ride a horse and learn about farm life. Good times. Good memories.

A lot of vacations for hubby, the kids and me were on the East coast in SC, NC, FL, VA including DC. and they were all road trips. Lots of good memories. Some years when money was tight we still took a vacation close to home like camping at Lake Erie the vacation from Hell where the alternator went out in our car in some small town in front of a rowdy bar.

There are few better family memories than those of family road trips.

And while Mackinaw is nice, I love the Upper Peninsula! It's also pretty nice on the upper Lake Michigan shoreline by Traverse Bay and northward.

 

[ecofarm]

Absolutely. And that will happen once the logistics are worked out to ensure everyone's safety. That does take time, especially in such a dynamic situation as this. I hope they get moved soon; being isolated in a cruise ship cabin must be one of the most awful things I could imagine.

It's only 3500 people. The logistics are not rocket science. It's a matter of having the will to deal with the situation head-on instead of hoping the Death Boat doesn't have too many corpses before we act.

 

[Threegoofs]

It's not that they can't test otherwise. They have the ability to draw blood and they have microscopes. They know what they're looking for. Kits are a means of expediting the test.

3500 people being transported and tested is within the ability of the world's superpower. Leaving people to die on a Death Boat is not an acceptable course of action.

‘Leaving people to die’?

That’s a bit extreme.

Most of the people who will test positive will be asymptomatic. Very few, if any, will need emergent care and even fewer need ventilator support.

But they need to all be tested and quarantined.

 

[Chomsky]

It's not that they can't test otherwise. They have the ability to draw blood and they have microscopes. They know what they're looking for. Kits are a means of expediting the test.

3500 people being transported and tested is within the ability of the world's superpower. Leaving people to die on a Death Boat is not an acceptable course of action.

You still haven't convinced me, so I've got to ask:

Do you know this factually & specifically, or are you surmising?

Because testing often requires specific reactants or reagents that may not be commonly available, along with often requiring specialized analytical and other specialized lab equipment. Looking for bugs on a slide under a microscope is full of quaint lore, but that's not how many diseases today are detected.

 

[vesper]

There are few better family memories than those of family road trips.

And while Mackinaw is nice, I love the Upper Peninsula! It's also pretty nice on the upper Lake Michigan shoreline by Traverse Bay and northward.

The moment you mention Traverse you are talking sand dunes and a lot of fun with dune buggies. At least that was they way back then.

 

[ecofarm]

You still haven't convinced me, so I've got to ask:

Do you know this factually & specifically, or are you surmising?

Because testing often requires specific reactants or reagents that may not be commonly available, along with often requiring specialized analytical and other specialized lab equipment. Looking for bugs on a slide under a microscope is full of quaint lore, but that's not how many diseases today are detected.

In California, there is increasing access to testing at public health laboratories that have received CDC test kits. Other clinical laboratories may perform diagnostic tests authorized by the FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization.

As Coronavirus Spreads, Experts Explain When to Call a Doctor, How Testing Works and More | UC San Francisco


It's a "get 'er done". A matter of will. There's nothing stopping us from accomplishing this.

 

[Chomsky]

The moment you mention Traverse you are talking sand dunes and a lot of fun with dune buggies. At least that was they way back then.

And nice small waterfront towns.

 

[Metric Mouse]

You still haven't convinced me, so I've got to ask:

Do you know this factually & specifically, or are you surmising?

Because testing often requires specific reactants or reagents that may not be commonly available, along with often requiring specialized analytical and other specialized lab equipment. Looking for bugs on a slide under a microscope is full of quaint lore, but that's not how many diseases today are detected.

Many facilities including state labs, private laboratories and academic hospitals can, and routinely do, develop their own tests. What happens in cases like this is the CDC issues an emergency and all tests that are developed have to be approved by the FDA (to ensure they are accurate and safe) No one applied for an FDA waiver right away, trusting the CDC test it had announced back in January would work and be distributed in less time than it would take to get cleared by the FDA to produce their own test.

Didn't work out that way, but basically Eco is right. (Are they ever really wrong?)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-went-wrong-with-the-coronavirus-tests/2020/03/07/915f5dea-5d82-11ea-b29b-9db42f7803a7_story.html

 

[ecofarm]

Wouldn't it be nice, for a change, if instead of BS about logistics and test kits, the President held a press conference and said:


There's nothing stopping us from helping these people. We've figured out the logistics and we're getting those people, safely (to include personal safety gear), to clinical laboratories. We'll test them at clinical laboratories under the Emergency Act. We'll quarantine and treat the sick. We'll release the unaffected. We will not permit floating death on our shores. We will act decisively and overcome any obstacles. America is a safe haven, not a stander-by. We'll get it done.


But we don't have that kind of President. We have an excuse maker.

 

[Chomsky]

As Coronavirus Spreads, Experts Explain When to Call a Doctor, How Testing Works and More | UC San Francisco

Yes. But what equipment and supplies does the "clinical lab" require?

I think you may be underestimating the technical complexity & difficulty of the task. You initially claimed "any hospital" can do it (without the kit). You haven't produced any evidence of this. And I suspect if it were that easy, every hospital would be doing it! No?

Look, if you have specific knowledge as to what's required to do this test, then that's fine. But if you're surmising any hospital can do this with what they ordinarily have at hand, that's very possibly an errant hypothesis.

My career in technology took me through a stint in medical diagnostics equipment. I was not involved with the biology, but I was involved in developing the hardware. While I don't know the specific biology, I can assure you the testing we developed was extremely complex involving specialized equipment, specialized reactants & reagents, and conditions that were not usually available at clinics and hospitals. In fact, the reactants & reagents were often the predominate marketable products, where they were our intellectual property, and in some of those cases we gave the equipment we developed away at cost in order to sell our high-profit protected assay support products.

So unless you specifically know the testing methodology, I don't see how you can make your claim with certainty.