Trump: 'US will not allow transgender individuals to serve in military' [W:144]

[OpportunityCost]

Bigotry vs. decency is not a culture war.

Defining those terms is.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Small boys didn't have a big crew or a lot of parts, hell we had to haul them across the pond to the Med, took FOREVER, lots of refueling and resupplying.

Anecdotes are cute.

According to the study – which analyzed private health insurance data on gender transition-related expenditures – the Military Health System costs would only increase by $2.4 million to $8.4 million a year if the care were extended to transgender service members.

The study concluded that these increases would only represent between 0.005 to 0.017 percent of overall Department of Defense health care expenditures, which totaled $49.3 billion in 2014.

In all, the study estimated that there was between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender people in the military.

The Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly in the U.S. Military | RAND

 

[Captain America]

I don't have to Cardinal

These programs and others are a waste, or may not be. I have been around waste for 20+ years in the Navy.

But any new source of drain will affect the low end of the food chain in the military regardless of what gets wasted or not.

Amen to that. I think your average John Q. Public would be appalled at the amount of waste in our military. Or, at least, the NAVY.

But That's all I have to say about that.

 

[ecofarm]

Defining those terms is.

You don't know what bigotry means? Decency, in this case, means not bigoted.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Wanting equality isn't wanting war. Fighting equality is the social warriors doing the pushing.

Look at you, couching your terms in victimhood.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I'd be more pissed at 19 year old Private Joe Blow who decided to knock up his girlfriend cause his pullout game is weak and now he wants to get married and enroll both his kid and baby momma in DEERS before he's emotionally or financially ready to raise a child. And yet zero talk of banning single fathers from the service. I'd be more pissed at Congress for wasting tons of money on bloated weapons programs that the military often doesn't want. I'd be more pissed at the moron who thought it was a good idea to give the ANA utility uniforms that don't even have camo patterns that match their surrounding terrain.

But yeah, it's the transgenders' fault!

I didn't place blame, or have I ever claimed a dislike for transsexuals anywhere's in my posts since day 1 on DP. In fact, I often defended them based on my interactions with quite a few over my life time.

I offered a view on the outlook of sailors that I speak with almost everyday.

I don't care what your emotional social views are.

 

[apdst]

CRICKETS!!!!!
thats what I thought LMAO

Shameful

Let'em stay, but they do their gender **** on their own time with their own money. If the gender **** gets in the way of doing their job, or they can't afford it, grant them an honorable discharge, with an apology, because Obama ****ed'em.

 

[OpportunityCost]

That's probably because you aren't old enough to have heard about it with black people. Perhaps they should've just shut their mouths instead of wanting equality too.

**** you. You don't get to even insinuate I am a racist you miserable piece of whiny ****.

 

[Port & Starboard]

How are they a waste? To what degree are more important things not being funded? Who's responsible for the lack of funding? Is it misallocation? Bad management? Why does the military get $300,000,000 in tanks it doesn't want, and why are transgenders first on your list?



Thank you for your service. You should have an emblem like the star that appears in Renae's info above your post.

The Navy won't take people my age, and I am one of the best diesel guys ever to walk the piers at NOB Norfolk...........(bragging of course)

Is that discriminatory also?

 

[Renae]

Just to be clear.... I don't care whether or not Transsexuals serve or not. But I do look at the current atmosphere in the ranks, and how tight money is for ships.

I was just backing you up on the small boys, they spent a lot of time in port waiting for funds and when they did go, it took a lot of support, and that was near on 20 years ago.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I was just backing you up on the small boys, they spent a lot of time in port waiting for funds and when they did go, it took a lot of support, and that was near on 20 years ago.

I know....thanks. I have a special respect for the guys/girls on the small boys. They make magic happen out of creating their own spare parts through dedication and ingenuity.


Folks on here have no clue what a OPTAR is, and how a LPO of a shop on board the ship has to operate all his/her gear with a ever decreasing number of zeros on the quarterly spending for parts dues to all these wastes and social experiments.

 

[Lutherf]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that being asked to be treated with equality = wanting to be special. The problem isn't with the gay servicemember, whose ability to do the job had zero correlation with his sexual orientation. The problem is with antiquated policies that booted out perfectly qualified individuals to accommodate the bigotry, fragility, and oversensitivity of the establishment.

"I want to be treated like everyone else but I want to do things my way" is asking for special treatment. For example, if it's Meatloaf Wednesday and everyone is eating meatloaf but you want a broccoli salad you're asking for special treatment, not equal treatment. The argument "well, everyone else is eating but I can't" is fallacious. You certainly can eat. You have merely chosen not to eat what everyone else is eating.

 

[AGENT J]

Let'em stay, but they do their gender **** on their own time with their own money. If the gender **** gets in the way of doing their job, or they can't afford it, grant them an honorable discharge, with an apology, because Obama ****ed'em.

:laughat:
nice try

this just in!!!!

if your rights are taken away from you tomorrow, its the fault of the person that protected your rights, not the people that take them away!!:lamo:lamo

 

[Cardinal]

I know....thanks. I have a special respect for the guys/girls on the small boys. They make magic happen out of creating their own spare parts through dedication and ingenuity.


Folks on here have no clue what a OPTAR is, and how a LPO of a shop on board the ship has to operate all his/her gear with a ever decreasing number of zeros on the quarterly spending for parts dues to all these wastes and social experiments.

I read your line "I have been around waste for 20+ years in the Navy" to mean that you served in the Navy. Never mind.

You haven't provided a case for why transgenders are a drain on the military. Your argument boils down to "There is waste in the Navy, therefore transgenders should go." without having provided any kind of explanation for how transgenders diverted funds from more necessary areas. You haven't even provided evidence that your anecdote is even true. In fact, you haven't come to this debate with...anything at all.

 

[apdst]

"I want to be treated like everyone else but I want to do things my way" is asking for special treatment. For example, if it's Meatloaf Wednesday and everyone is eating meatloaf but you want a broccoli salad you're asking for special treatment, not equal treatment. The argument "well, everyone else is eating but I can't" is fallacious. You certainly can eat. You have merely chosen not to eat what everyone else is eating.

That's why the the service wastes enough food every year to feed a small country. They serve two menus at one time, because troops go to the chow hall and want brocolli, instead of meatloaf.

 

[apdst]

:laughat:
nice try

this just in!!!!

if your rights are taken away from you tomorrow, its the fault of the person that protected your rights, not the people that take them away!!:lamo:lamo

Serving in the armed forces isn't a right.

 

[apdst]

I read your line "I have been around waste for 20+ years in the Navy" to mean that you served in the Navy. Never mind.

You haven't provided a case for why transgenders are a drain on the military. Your argument boils down to "There is waste in the Navy, therefore transgenders should go." without having provided any kind of explanation for how transgenders diverted funds from more necessary areas. You haven't even provided evidence that your anecdote is even true. In fact, you haven't come to this debate with...anything at all.

Tell us what gender therapy does to support the mission.

 

[Hicup]

This, to me, is a no brainer. No disrespect intended, but, the military already rules you out during aptitude discovery of a potential mental illnesses. Last time I checked, gender dysphoria is still in the DSM as a serious mental illness. Look, I get that everyone seems super aggressive with LGBTQ rights these days; following off the great success of gay rights recently, but the military is a whole different kind of animal when playing social experiments.


Tim-

 

[Captain America]

My two cents.....

I have nothing against transgender folks. I wish them all well. Their life is probably hard enough without me piling on any more hardships.

I will support their advancements in liberty just as I do for the gay community.

I have had minimal exposure to people of the transvestite persuasion. I have only known a couple personally.

But the few I do know, and the few here at DP that have professed to be TV, it is my unqualified opinion that they do have 'issues' which is completely understandable given the hell society must put them through. And, besides the turmoils they face in society, I have also observed they are not on an even 'keel' when it comes to other issues but I digress. There is no reason they shouldn't be treated with respect and live a life free of persecution from the bigoted assholes we all have to live around.

Again, my opinion is truly unqualified. It is merely an opinion. No more. No less. Policy should not be made based on my 'opinion.'

All that being said, here is my two-cents.

People, from all walks of life, have been denied entry into the military for one mental issue or another. This issue happens to address the issue of gender dysphoria.

Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify. People with gender dysphoria may be very uncomfortable with the gender they were assigned, sometimes described as being uncomfortable with their body (particularly developments during puberty) or being uncomfortable with the expected roles of their assigned gender.
[FONT=roboto, HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif]People with gender dysphoria may often experience significant distress and/or problems functioning associated with this conflict between the way they feel and think of themselves (referred to as experienced or expressed gender) and their physical or assigned gender. <snip> [/FONT]https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

[FONT=roboto, HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=roboto, HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif]Personally, in the civilian world, I do not mind lending support to the cause of the transvestite people. I do not mind lending an ear and perhaps even encouraging them to have a better day, in any way I can. I would be the first to help them change a flat tire, mow their lawn or loan them a cup of sugar. I wouldn't mind living next door to them at all. I refuse to bigot up and persecute them like many other people do. Not my circus, not my monkeys. Live and let live, I say.[/FONT][FONT=roboto, HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif]

[/FONT]But when it comes to letting someone with this particular mental challenge serve in the military, I do not support that any more than I would support someone with a bipolar disorder, or a plethora of other mental challenges facing many of our brothers and sisters. There is just too much at stake. It's not good for the military and it's not good for the person.

Again, just my unqualified 'two-cents.' Just keeping it real. It's what I do.

 

[StillBallin75]

"I want to be treated like everyone else but I want to do things my way" is asking for special treatment. For example, if it's Meatloaf Wednesday and everyone is eating meatloaf but you want a broccoli salad you're asking for special treatment, not equal treatment. The argument "well, everyone else is eating but I can't" is fallacious. You certainly can eat. You have merely chosen not to eat what everyone else is eating.

Straight people didn't get kicked out for revealing their sexual orientation under DADT. That is something something that was unique to those who were LGBT. That is not equal treatment. Asking not to lose your ****ing job and not to be discriminated against because you're gay isn't the same as asking for broccoli salad instead of meatloaf. It's asking for the same goddamn meatloaf that everyone else is getting.

 

[Cardinal]

Tell us what gender therapy does to support the mission.

Create an argument using 535 characters and I will.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

This, to me, is a no brainer. No disrespect intended, but, the military already rules you out during aptitude discovery of a potential mental illnesses. Last time I checked, gender dysphoria is still in the DSM as a serious mental illness. Look, I get that everyone seems super aggressive with LGBTQ rights these days; following off the great success of gay rights recently, but the military is a whole different kind of animal when playing social experiments.


Tim-

In all, the study estimated that there was between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender people in the military.

 

[yankintx]

Those that wish to serve their country will find ways around the ban. I am gay, served under DADT and pre DADT, dont let someone elses hang up deter you from serving in the Armed Forces.

See you at the hearings !!

 

[Phys251]

I don't care either, it's not about that. All of you dumping on me are ignoring the big picture because your hyper partisan blinders are on.

You're complaining about having your opinion viewed through the lens of your being transgender?! Congratulations, Renae, you just destroyed another irony meter.

 

[vesper]

Since I am pretty ignorant of what the health standards are for military enlistment when it comes to gender so I looked it up.

Here you go.

Female genitalia.
Current or history of abnormal uterine bleeding (626.2), including, but not limited to menorrhagia, metrorrhagia, or polymenorrhea, is disqualifying.
Current unexplained amenorrhea (626.0) is disqualifying.
Current or history of dysmenorrhea (625.3) that is incapacitating to a degree recurrently necessitating absences of more than a few hours from routine activities is disqualifying.
Current or history of endometriosis (617) is disqualifying.
History of major abnormalities or defects of the genitalia such as change of sex (P64.5), hermaphroditism, pseudohermaphroditism, or pure gonadal dysgenesis (752.7) or dysfunctional residuals from surgical correction of these conditions is disqualifying.
Current or history of ovarian cysts (620.2), when persistent or symptomatic is disqualifying.
Current pelvic inflammatory disease (614), or history of recurrent pelvic inflammatory disease, is disqualifying.
Current or history of chronic pelvic pain or unspecified symptoms associated with female genital organs (625.9) is disqualifying.
Current pregnancy (V22) is disqualifying until 6 months after the end of the pregnancy.
Uterus, congenital absence of (752.3), or enlargement due to any cause (621.2) is disqualifying.
Current or history of genital infection or ulceration, including but not limited to herpes genitalis (054.11) or condyloma acuminatum (078.11), if of sufficient severity to require frequent intervention or to interfere with normal function, is disqualifying.
Current abnormal gynecologic cytology, including, but not limited to unspecified abnormalities of the Papanicolaou smear of the cervix (Pap smear) (795) excluding Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) (079.4) or confirmed Low-Grade Squamous Intraepithelial Lesion (LGSIL) (622.9), is disqualifying. For the purposes of this standard, confirmation is by colposcopy or repeat cytology.

Male genitalia.
Current absence of one or both testicles, either congenital (752.89) or undescended (752.51) is disqualifying.
Current epispadias (752.62) or hypospadias (752.61), when accompanied by evidence of urinary tract infection, urethral stricture, or voiding dysfunction, is disqualifying.
Current enlargement or mass of testicle or epididymis (608.9) is disqualifying.
Current orchitis (604) or epididymitis (604.90) is disqualifying.
History of penis amputation (878.0) is disqualifying.
Current or history of genital infection or ulceration, including, but not limited to herpes genitalis (054.13) and condyloma acuminatum (078.11), if of sufficient severity to require frequent intervention or to interfere with normal function, is disqualifying.
Current acute prostatitis (601.0) or chronic prostatitis (601.1) is disqualifying.
(8) Current hydrocele (603.0), if large or symptomatic, is disqualifying..
Left varicocele (456.4), if symptomatic, or associated with testicular atrophy, or vericocele larger than the testis is disqualifying.
Any right varicocele (456.4) is disqualifying.
Current or history of chronic scrotal pain or unspecified symptoms associated with male genital organs (608.9) are disqualifying.
History of major abnormalities or defects of the genitalia, such as a change of sex (P64.5), hermaphroditism, pseudohermaphroditism, or pure gonadal dysgenesis (752.7) or dysfunctional residuals from surgical correction of these conditions is disqualifying.

https://www.thebalance.com/military-medical-standards-for-enlistment-and-commission-3354025


So can someone explain to me why Trump's tweet changes anything? From where I sit it doesn't unless it was done to take the spotlight off of him for being such a jackass berating Sessions and has received a lot of blowback for it.

Apparently transgenders already don't qualify for enlistment under current standards.