Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

[Idiometer]

What is the Left's solution? Repeal the latest tax bill and raise taxes?

Dwight D. Eisenhower on tax cuts and a balanced budget

The Good Ol' Days: When Tax Rates Were 90 Percent | Mises Institute

Marginal rates on high earners won't make as much difference as many liberals think it will, but it would take some of the burden off middle and lower class earners. What would make a HUGE difference is raising corporate taxes and cutting spending, as Eisenhower stated in the first link above. Republicans pay lip service to the idea of cutting spending, but thay only want to cut social programs like Social Security and Medicare. Heaven forbid they should cut soending where it really needs it, like the defense budget. Just look at the fiasco that the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has become, and the fact that we have more armored vehicles than we can use.

Pentagon Tells Congress to Stop Buying Equipment it Doesn't Need | Military.com

There's the waste. Let's start by cutting some of those billions. The problem is, contractors like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon and the like have a lock on politicians in whose districts they currently provide jobs. No matter what, workers are the ones who suffer for the lack of political will to cut the REAL spending wastes.

 

[Lutherf]

That didn't stop conservatives from claiming that Obama ordered the IRS to go after new conservative organizations.

Well, I suppose you can be pissed off because someone claims that something that happened actually happened but I don't see why such a thing would be troubling.

 

[Luckyone]

I dont know, Trump has taken more substantive positions that run counter to Russian interests than are supportive of those interests. It reminds me a bit of when Obama was president and there were charges by his detractors that he was a 'Muslim plant.' Everything he did that was supportive of Muslims was seen as "Aha!! This proves it" Same thing with Trump. If you are convinced he is a 'Russian asset' you will see evidence for it in everything he does and ignore those aspects that contradict your conclusion.

The interest from Obama and other President has been mostly "against" Russia and not in favor of doing business with them. Trump's so called "against Russia" actions seem to be more "window dressing for the public" than reality. Especially given that he "wants" to meet with Putin (over and over again), was trying to build a Hotel in Moscow, sanctions against Russian oligarchs have been removed and he did not want to sign the sanctions against Russia that Congress approved. In addition, he has bent over to give Putin the benefit of the doubt against our intelligence community and has clearly stated that he would like us to do business with Russia.

Whether he is a "Russian asset" or not is not the case for this conversation. This is about the fact that he wants to work with Russia but has not shown much willingness to work with our allies, such as Germany. Nonetheless, in one way or another, Trump is mentioning Russia daily. He seems to be positively obsessed with Russia and to me, that is a BAD sign.

I don't like that and I am against it, especially since I do not see any benefits the U.S. would achieve in working with Russia. In my opinion, Russia should be put aside and forgotten other than to criticize them when they try to interfere with freedom in other nations.

 

[Idiometer]

Why should I have to pay for the babies of the irresponsible people who couldn't afford them in the first place............. that you are whining about?

But but but......................free birth control was all the rage 2-3 years ago!

You folks are not happy regardless.

Do you have the least idea of how CHEAP free birth control for all is next to the price of a single Abrams tank, or F-35 fighter jet? And the fact that giving out free birth control medicines and devices also results in lower abortion rates?

Babies happen, no matter what, no matter who, no matter how careful one may be to prevent them. Wasteful defense spending is ENTIRELY preventable.

Most Americans don't know how our taxes are spent, much less what our national debt consists of or who owns those markers. Today's dumbed down neoconservatives just keep banging out the rhetoric against people even more needy than they are, instead of pointing those fingers upward towards those who keep on robbing us all and creating our endless budget deficits.

 

[What if...?]

i would say that a ninety percent top margin is way too much. trickle down actually has some benefits when you're talking about reducing confiscatory rates like that.

Actually, "confiscatory" depends on where you set the level at which the super high rate kicks in.

I'm quite sure a calculation can be done that determines the point where individual and corporate incomes start to put a drag on the overall economy as opposed to keeping those businesses "healthy".

The neurochemistry that drives the uber wealthy is addictive. They are driven to compete with each other. It is status in the group they are hungry for. Not the wealth itself. And each one is trying to close the gap between them and the next highest guy on the ladder and widen that between them and the next lowest.

They will never stop doing this voluntarily, as history demonstrates. And when enough of them get caught up in this game it is inevitable that they will start looking in our pockets for more "tokens" in this game. And this practice has been the reason for every collapse and revolt not attributable to natural disaster.

An interesting conclusion from looking at it through this lens is that if I am correct, and all my modeling says I am, if they can't keep as much they'll work that much harder rather than quitting. And I dont tthink other "competitors" want them in their countries competing directly with them. So the "moving somewhere else" canard may very well be just a canard.

In my view, confiscatory rates beyond a certain level just encourages leaving "fruit on the vine" for another enterprise. This foments competition and fulfills the simple mathematics that a thousand millionaires are better for the economy that affects the majority than one billionaire.

 

[Idiometer]

Poor people don't pay Federal income taxes.

If you have little or no income, what is there to tax?

 

[Idiometer]

Tariffs can only make my tax bill go down.

Your lower tax bill is more than offset by the increased price of foreign made goods.

 

[Idiometer]

The same number who have been indicted for collusion with Russia.

No one has ever been indicted for "collusion" as that is not how such crimes are worded within our system of laws. Conspiracy? Yeah, we got that. Lying to congress or the FBI or federal prosecutors? We got a lot of that out of the Rogue's Gallery that is the Trump administration.

But you he a good little sheeple and keep locking on to the one word that, while it describes the overall effect of their many crimes, does not appear in indictments. Heaven forbid you be an actual patriot and feel appalled and cheated by an administration who obtained power over your life and mine with a lot of help from an adversarial nation.

 

[Idiometer]

And I also could very well not be. :roll: Plus going after China for its trade practices is something I support. In fact it is something that liberals used to support as well, before.....Trump.

No, we still support going after China for stealing our intellectual property and for weaponizing their practice of currency manipulation. But the tarrifs will not be paid by the Chinese, they will be paid by you and me in the form of higher prices for Chinese made goods. Keep your Walmart receipts and compare them with the receipts you get after the tarrifs really kick in.

 

[Idiometer]

You would have to ask them, but after two years of looking, there are no indictments, no convictions and no pleas of Russian collusion. Perhaps you Collusion Truthers should join forces with the 911 Truthers. Maybe the same guys who set the explosives in the Twin Towers also conspired with Russia.

I was 8 blocks from the towers on 9/11 and saw everything from my office window. There were no tactical nukes, no planted explosives. Those who believe otherwise are complete and utter morons who need to tighten their tin foil hats.

 

[Idiometer]

What do you mean 'temporary?'

Enjoy your tax cuts while they last

"But here's the thing: After 2025, all individual tax cuts are set to expire. At the same time, corporate rate cuts are made permanent under the bill."

Trump's Tax Reform Plan Explained

"Individually, how the changes will be felt depends on factors like your income level, filing status and deductions. For a family of four earning the median income, the changes will equate to an extra $2,000 in their pockets – at least until 2025. But if you live in a high-tax state with soaring property values, you stand to pay more in taxes."

 

[Idiometer]

Dopamine.

:lamo

 

[Helix]

Actually, "confiscatory" depends on where you set the level at which the super high rate kicks in.

I'm quite sure a calculation can be done that determines the point where individual and corporate incomes start to put a drag on the overall economy as opposed to keeping those businesses "healthy".

The neurochemistry that drives the uber wealthy is addictive. They are driven to compete with each other. It is status in the group they are hungry for. Not the wealth itself. And each one is trying to close the gap between them and the next highest guy on the ladder and widen that between them and the next lowest.

They will never stop doing this voluntarily, as history demonstrates. And when enough of them get caught up in this game it is inevitable that they will start looking in our pockets for more "tokens" in this game. And this practice has been the reason for every collapse and revolt not attributable to natural disaster.

An interesting conclusion from looking at it through this lens is that if I am correct, and all my modeling says I am, if they can't keep as much they'll work that much harder rather than quitting. And I dont tthink other "competitors" want them in their countries competing directly with them. So the "moving somewhere else" canard may very well be just a canard.

In my view, confiscatory rates beyond a certain level just encourages leaving "fruit on the vine" for another enterprise. This foments competition and fulfills the simple mathematics that a thousand millionaires are better for the economy that affects the majority than one billionaire.

i would say that a ninety percent top rate is definitely confiscatory. my guess is that most would just dodge it somehow, especially in today's global economy.

i do, however, support high taxes during wartime, though probably not ninety percent. at any other time, i support taxing all income as income above a cap.

 

[apdst]

Your lower tax bill is more than offset by the increased price of foreign made goods.

The total price of the goods (including the increase) is deductable.

 

[apdst]

If you have little or no income, what is there to tax?

Small incomes can be taxed.

 

[Fletch]

No one has ever been indicted for "collusion" as that is not how such crimes are worded within our system of laws. Conspiracy? Yeah, we got that. Lying to congress or the FBI or federal prosecutors? We got a lot of that out of the Rogue's Gallery that is the Trump administration.

But you he a good little sheeple and keep locking on to the one word that, while it describes the overall effect of their many crimes, does not appear in indictments. Heaven forbid you be an actual patriot and feel appalled and cheated by an administration who obtained power over your life and mine with a lot of help from an adversarial nation.

Collusion is the word liberals have used from the start. But as has been pointed out to liberals from the start, there is no such crime as collusion. So rather than attempt to push that fact through the thick liberal skull, the word has been adopted. Now you want to argue the crime of collusion doesnt exist, well, welcome to reality. If you oppose the word, take it up with your thick skulled allies. Now that you prefer the word conspiracy, there are no indictments, charges or pleas to that either. There is no conspiracy and no conspirators. And finally, Trump did not win because of Russia. That is just mindless Trutherism.

 

[Fletch]

Enjoy your tax cuts while they last

"But here's the thing: After 2025, all individual tax cuts are set to expire. At the same time, corporate rate cuts are made permanent under the bill."

Trump's Tax Reform Plan Explained

"Individually, how the changes will be felt depends on factors like your income level, filing status and deductions. For a family of four earning the median income, the changes will equate to an extra $2,000 in their pockets – at least until 2025. But if you live in a high-tax state with soaring property values, you stand to pay more in taxes."

Look, democrats run the House, all they have to do is bring up a bill to make them permanent. You act like these laws are decrees from God, they are not. They are written by congress. Congress can change them

 

[JasperL]

The under-withholding thing isn't new. If you every filled out a W-4 and followed the instructions you'd have been GUARANTEED to under-withhold unless you were getting refundable EIC or something. The principles didn't change. The new tax law simply didn't address that issue.

That's misleading. I doubt if really anyone follows the instructions on the W-4 and many don't follow instructions because they want to overwithhold as a form of forced savings. Whatever the reason WHY, about 100 million of 130 million returns e-filed (77% or so) showed refunds.

IRS efile Tax Return and Refund Statistics for All Tax Years

 

[JasperL]

Look, democrats run the House, all they have to do is bring up a bill to make them permanent. You act like these laws are decrees from God, they are not. They are written by congress. Congress can change them

And the GOP ran the House, Senate and White House. Weird they passed what will be a tax increase on the middle class in 2025 while making the tax cuts for the donor class permanent. Tells you who they answer to, who pulls the puppet strings.

 

[Fletch]

And the GOP ran the House, Senate and White House. Weird they passed what will be a tax increase on the middle class in 2025 while making the tax cuts for the donor class permanent. Tells you who they answer to, who pulls the puppet strings.

This is the perfect opportunity for the dems to show that they are the true champions of the middle class and pass a bill in the House to make them permanent. Whats the hold up?

 

[JasperL]

This is the perfect opportunity for the dems to show that they are the true champions of the middle class and pass a bill in the House to make them permanent. Whats the hold up?

You're playing the GOP political game just like a good little soldier. They've been in office for a month, and it's already the Democrats' fault that the POS GOP passed tax bill hasn't been repealed and replaced by something else.

 

[Fletch]

You're playing the GOP political game just like a good little soldier. They've been in office for a month, and it's already the Democrats' fault that the POS GOP passed tax bill hasn't been repealed and replaced by something else.

You honestly believe the dems are going to pass a bill to make these tax cuts permanent?

 

[JasperL]

You honestly believe the dems are going to pass a bill to make these tax cuts permanent?

I don't have any idea what they might or might not do in the next six years with regard to taxes. My crystal ball isn't working. Will depend (I'd guess) on who is President in 2021, which party holds the Senate and House, by what margins, what deficits look like and the debt, what the economy is doing, whether we're in recession or expansion, interest rates, unemployment rates.

What I can figure out is what the GOP DID DO, and what they DID DO is pass tax cuts that expire for the little people but are permanent for the donor class. And they like always didn't pay for them, but added the cost to the deficit and debt, because the GOP don't care about anything other than tax cuts for the donor class. Same movie, different actors as always.

 

[RetiredUSN]

"WHIP IT OUT AND LET'S SEE WHOSE IS BIGGER!!" :roll:

You leftists love raising taxes until it's your turn.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The only people not paying their fair share are the 1%.

Prove it!

They pay more in a couple months than you will pay in your entire life.