Trump signs executive order to promote free speech on college campuses

[noonereal]

How it's going to be defined is an excellent question and one I am waiting for answer to. In principle I have no issue with the EO but in practice I may change my mind depending on the guidelines used.

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Exactly.

If a speaker is canceled because of threatened violence, the right thing was done.

 

[pamak]

The caveat isn't on who it is funded by, but why they are justifying it. If government grants justify review of public universities, then they justify it for private ones as well.

Good luck to the Trump administration winning this case. You think Berkeley, Harvard and Yale don't know which private universities have government grants?

Lol.

What are they going to argue? No, no other private schools are exempt from this even if they have government grants and not you guys?




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I suspect that the legal argument about using federal grants to pay tuition in private universities which do not defend free speech is that such grants are given to the students and not to the universities. Of course, if a private university gets directly fed grants for research or whatever, then things change. On the other hand, I do not see why a government has a responsibility to give tax exempt status to private institutions which do not defend the first amendment even if the latter do not use directly any fed funds..

 

[trouble13]

Exactly.

If a speaker is canceled because of threatened violence, the right thing was done.

Sure but if there was threats of violence I think the university also has an obligation to make its best effort to investigate and prosecute those making the threats.

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[noonereal]

Sure but if there was threats of violence I think the university also has an obligation to make its best effort to investigate and prosecute those making the threats.

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That is the job of the police not the university.

 

[trouble13]

That is the job of the police not the university.

The University has some obligations too

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[RealityNow]

Students and Parents don't spend their money to send their kids to school to be drilled with "white nationalist ignorance and the hate it promotes"

Trump can take his E.O... and shove it.... and those who support it can stick their head up his butt all they want.... People who go to get educated at colleges and Universities don't have time for this "white nationalist hate groomed ignorance. All Trump is trying to do is further endear them to him, like the cloned minded cultist they are.....

 

[noonereal]

The University has some obligations too

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Like what?

 

[trouble13]

Like what?

Student safety

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[Xelor]

From the referenced article:

"Even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and the First Amendment," Trump said.​

If one doesn't care for a school's handling of expression among the student body and/or faculty, don't apply to go there. Nobody holds people at gunpoint and/or otherwise forces them on pain of "anything" to attend any specific college/university.

If one feels free speech matters that much:
1 -- Find out what the school's approach is.
2 -- Apply, or don't, as befits one's assessment of the matter.

If universities want to promote their preferred for of bigotry they are free to do so. They are not free to use my money to pay for it. Seems fair enough to me.

Well, then, if you don't enroll there, attend their sporting and other events, donate to them, etc., they are not likely to receive your money. That's particularly so for private institutions. Regarding public ones, I refer you to post 41 and its linked-to content.

So what if it's redundant, if it is. What's the problem with removing federal funding to institutions that practice discrimination of speech?

From one of the several other threads on substantively the same topic:

Frankly, I think this is among the more ridiculous things Trump's proposed; however, I suspect it appeals to the hoipolloi.

Think about the primary implication of the measure:

The main federal revenue stream any university receives is research grant revenue. Thus if the federal government deems a first-rate university non-compliant on free speech, the American people are the losers, not the university, because the impact of Trump's EO is that some of the most capable institutions and researchers will not receive funding to study/research matters of key importance to the country.
​

• 
  [*=1]Federally Funded Academic Research Requirements: Background and Issues in Brief

Taking such a stance is absurd!​

ETA:
Before bothering to respond to the above, if you be so inclined, please take the time to understand the following:
-- The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
-- The Professor is In
-- So You Want to Work at a Teaching College

Why would I want to fund bigots to conduct studies that produce results full of confirmation bias that supports their bigoted views?

It's pretty obvious why the left wants the practice to remain immune from consequences.

Yeah, whatever...

Lol that bit of truth stings a little huh
The fact is the left has a problem with bigotry in their party. There is no reason why they should receive public funding to support it. Let private donations finance their intolerant views. Nobody is preventing it.

Blue, red and tan sequence of comments:

1. You've not established unequivocally that your earlier remarks depict existential truth.
2. Nothing you've written stung.
3. My "whatever" remark was merely a courtesy comment. I think your "blue" comments were too ridiculous to merit any other remark. Rest assured I won't again show you that courtesy.

 

[noonereal]

Student safety

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Right, that is why they called it off. You said they had a roll in investigating. That is when I challenged you.

Good grief.

 

[stevecanuck]

It's "you're". You're welcome!

Yes, yore rite.

 

[trouble13]

Blue, red and tan sequence of comments:

1. You've not established unequivocally that your earlier remarks depict existential truth.
2. Nothing you've written stung.
3. My "whatever" remark was merely a courtesy comment. I think your "blue" comments were too ridiculous to merit any other remark. Rest assured I won't again show you that courtesy.

M9re like you dug yourself a hole that you could not climg out of so you deflected by trying to be dismissive without content to back it up.

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[trouble13]

Right, that is why they called it off. You said they had a roll in investigating. That is when I challenged you.

Good grief.

They do have a role in investigsting it and taking action to prevent it from hsppening in the future. The university is responsible for enforcing campus rules. If theres a legal matter involved they are obligated to involve the police.

What your suggesting is if conservative students showed up to liberal courses with air horns the university should shut diwn the course but no sction should be tsken by the university against those students.

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[nota bene]

Yes, I did and the point they make does not address the violation of the first amendment rights which independent (actually all) contractors have. The ACLU is already pursuing multiple cases of such laws (including in Texas) and we have already some Fed Court decisions saying that such laws likely violate the first Amendment


Laws Targeting Israel Boycotts Fail Again in Court | American Civil Liberties Union

On Thursday night, a federal court blocked Arizona from enforcing a law requiring state contractors to certify that they are not participating in boycotts of Israel. The court agreed with the ACLU that the law likely violates contractors’ free speech rights under the First Amendment.

The ACLU has also filed a suit against Texas

ACLU sues Texas schools, AG over Israel boycott law - Houston Chronicle

The American Civil Liberties Union is going to court on behalf of four Texans, including a Texas State University student, to challenge a state law that requires workers under state contracts to pledge not to boycott Israel or face the loss of their jobs or potential income.

The federal lawsuit filed Tuesday is the second case to call out the Texas law this week. Speech pathologist Bahia Amawi is suing state Attorney General Ken Paxton and the Pflugerville Independent School District after the pro-Israel clause was added during her annual contract renewal with the district.

ACLU went also after local governments which try to use the anti-boycott law in the applications they gave to victims who were applying for relief

Texas City Tells People No Hurricane Harvey Aid Unless They Promise Not to Boycott Israel | American Civil Liberties Union

OCTOBER 19, 2017
HOUSTON — The city of Dickinson, Texas, is requiring applicants for Hurricane Harvey rebuilding funds to certify in writing that they will not take part in a boycott of Israel. The American Civil Liberties Union criticized the city’s condition as a violation of free speech rights.

Do you think that ACLU is antisemitic?

The more important question is whether its court actions will be successful.

 

[noonereal]

They do have a role in investigsting it and taking action to prevent it from hsppening in the future. The university is responsible for enforcing campus rules. If theres a legal matter involved they are obligated to involve the police.

What your suggesting is if conservative students showed up to liberal courses with air horns the university should shut diwn the course but no sction should be tsken by the university against those students.

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You are just back peddling

later

 

[trouble13]

You are just back peddling

later

I'm not back pedaling at all. Your running away though.
Good night

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[noonereal]

I'm not back pedaling at all. Your running away though.
Good night

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You really need to be childish too?

Go ahead, take the last word. It is obvious you "need" to.

 

[Buzz62]

I saw this little ass hpole on TV just two days ago, Ben Shapiro. I can see why he pisses people off. No joke. I just felt like slapping him silly he had so much hate.

I never heard of any of the others.

I'll obviously need links to verify what you are talking about.

I am a bit interested so I will read the links. Thanks.

If you're interested, find you own links. They're not hard to find.

 

[noonereal]

If you're interested, find you own links. They're not hard to find.

LOL, I figured

Trumpets, you can't live with them, you can't get rid of them. What a ****in' problem.

 

[AGENT J]

Well over 200 posts now and still no answers from anybody? interesting.....


What are all the examples of a university factually violating free speech laws?
is this happening so often that an EO is needed?
if it is factually happening wheres all the won court cases against the people doing so?

and if it is factually happening i want action, legal action.

 

[Oborosen]

It's sad that I need to remind people to make a point with whatever they attempt to post.

 

[Oborosen]

What did Obama do, exactly?

Stretching the limits of executive power with his EOs.

 

[Oborosen]

LOL, well actually my kid played in the ACC so I have been on countless campus over the last 4 years.

Notre Dame, Duke, NC State, UNC, Pitt, Louisville, Clemson, Boston College, Minnesota, Wake Forest, Florida State, Miami, Maryland, Navy, Pepperdine, Stanford, Santa Clara, South Carolina, Syracuse, UNC Greenboro.... that is just off the top of my head.
(or and many others on recruiting trips, at least a dozen)

you?

lol

Yes, but seeing as all you've done is go to games and not actually lived within the site of the school itself. I can see how a simple reality can just pass you by. Much more so to how it's apparent that you've been covering your eyes and plugging your ears for the last few years.

 

[Oborosen]

We get it, but you're lying:

Student Expelled From Christian College for Being Gay - Universal Life Church Monastery Blog

Why Gay Teens Are Being Expelled From Christian Schools – Rolling Stone

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=128228&page=1

Christian school in Kansas threatens to expel students if they have a gay family member | The Independent

Good luck trying to explain away how this EO won't be protecting christian students.



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These schools have the same protections as the others. I don't like it either. But that is the way things have degraded to after all this time.

 

[Hatuey]

These schools have the same protections as the others. I don't like it either. But that is the way things have degraded to after all this time.

The "others" can't kick people out for being gay or voicing pro-choice opinions. You're simply wrong. I get it, you were caught lying, but it seems it's you who hasn't been to a college in the last 5 years.

Let's appraise the situation in a different manner. I'll pretend you know what you're talking about, and I don't. Why do you think the opinions of Christian students shouldn't be exposed to multiple sides of an argument or protected?

Come on, my man. Flex them muscles.

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