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Trump should tell Congress to shove this bill up their _______

Less than two weeks after Trump opened things up, Nancy approves funding that includes a wall.

Yeah...she caved.

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

He got 1.3 billion, Mycroft. After asking for 5.7. Which was down from 20, or whatever the first numbers were, back when it was supposed to be an actual wall, and not a fence.

Who caved exactly?

Good grief, you guys have gone full fiction mode. There are going to a lot of Trump supporters requiring therapy when this is all over, for voluntary Stockholm syndrome.
 
:lol: Ah, Mycroft, what a frustrating day - another, in a long parade of frustrating days, I'm sure. At least it's Friday.

The wall was always a joke, always a hook to land simple minded voters, who preferred a solution consisting of four letters (W-A-L-L) to one that would actually work.

Trump won't tell whoever to shove whatever wherever, because he's going to still get something to hang his name on - albeit, something much tinnier than the "great, great wall" that was promised, but at least he get's to spend a billion dollars on something he can claim "Look, ma, I did this!!". Oh...awkward...you thought he was doing all this for you. :lol:

Border control will be a much more doable proposition with two initiatives: criminalize and prosecute people who employ illegal workers and legalize all drugs. If you don't want to do those things, that's fine...just be nicer to the people Americans have created a market for. That's right, the problem isn't whether or not you have a wall, or who is president, or what money is spent. The root cause, as it so often is with America, is America.

Frustrating day... ;)

I'm sorry you are frustrated.

But you are correct. Hours after I created this thread, Trump disappointed me and made his decision. So it goes.

But I'm not frustrated, because I understand his reasoning and I see why it might be best to just remove the Congressional political nonsense from the issue and move on to securing our border without them.

I agree with you that other action needs to be taken...dealing with employers who break the law, visa overstays, streamlined deportation process, etc. I don't think such actions would make a wall unnecessary. They address different parts of two different problems and we need all of it.
 
I'm sorry you are frustrated.

But you are correct. Hours after I created this thread, Trump disappointed me and made his decision. So it goes.

But I'm not frustrated, because I understand his reasoning and I see why it might be best to just remove the Congressional political nonsense from the issue and move on to securing our border without them.

I agree with you that other action needs to be taken...dealing with employers who break the law, visa overstays, streamlined deportation process, etc. I don't think such actions would make a wall unnecessary. They address different parts of two different problems and we need all of it.

lol...I'm not frustrated. I get to gloat today. :)

I do think it's funny, though, that you posted this thread, all full of piss and vinegar, but are now much more calm and agreeable - yes, once again, your lord and savior Donald Trump has miraculously beat the odds, and despite the outcome looking NOTHING like what he promised you, has bestowed upon America his just and wise genius, this time in the form of a cave in, with the follow up intention to overthrow the American government.

And yes, I'm calling you out directly for supporting the president overthrowing you, the people, by bypassing government. Odd to hear a so called American conservative advocate for a dictatorship. Tsk, tsk, Mycroft. That's traitor territory.

I guess frustration makes us do odd things. :lol:
 
If god is going to destroy America how can it be liberals? Are you saying god is a liberal?

God is neither democrat or republican. God is God and democrats or republicans are wise to get on board with God, not Satanic policies and corrupt strategies.
 
lol...I'm not frustrated. I get to gloat today. :)

I do think it's funny, though, that you posted this thread, all full of piss and vinegar, but are now much more calm and agreeable - yes, once again, your lord and savior Donald Trump has miraculously beat the odds, and despite the outcome looking NOTHING like what he promised you, has bestowed upon America his just and wise genius, this time in the form of a cave in, with the follow up intention to overthrow the American government.

And yes, I'm calling you out directly for supporting the president overthrowing you, the people, by bypassing government. Odd to hear a so called American conservative advocate for a dictatorship. Tsk, tsk, Mycroft. That's traitor territory.

I guess frustration makes us do odd things. :lol:

I started this thread because I disliked the bill that Congress came up with...not out of any anger toward Trump.

I calmly presented Graham's suggestion to the President, even though Graham disagreed with me.

I have looked at the announcement of what Trump has decided to do and, as I said, I understand his reasoning.

Unlike others, I am not a demagogue who will get angry when Congress or the President don't do things as I would like them to do.

Trump, by exercising powers given to him by the Constitution and by Congress, has not "bypassed government". Your contention that he has done that is a product of your ignorance and bias. I am not saddled with either affliction.

You do appear to be frustrated. I predict your frustration will grow as Trump continues to deal with the humanitarian and security crisis on our southern border.
 
I started this thread because I disliked the bill that Congress came up with...not out of any anger toward Trump.

I calmly presented Graham's suggestion to the President, even though Graham disagreed with me.

I have looked at the announcement of what Trump has decided to do and, as I said, I understand his reasoning.

Unlike others, I am not a demagogue who will get angry when Congress or the President don't do things as I would like them to do.

Trump, by exercising powers given to him by the Constitution and by Congress, has not "bypassed government". Your contention that he has done that is a product of your ignorance and bias. I am not saddled with either affliction.

You do appear to be frustrated. I predict your frustration will grow as Trump continues to deal with the humanitarian and security crisis on our southern border.

:lamo Ok, Mycroft... Fortunately for me, my predictions have come true a lot more often than yours have. :) Again: not frustrated. Gloating. But thanks for sharing your own version of "stable genius". ;)
 
God is neither democrat or republican. God is God and democrats or republicans are wise to get on board with God, not Satanic policies and corrupt strategies.

But how can it be that both god and liberals are destroying the world? That would make god a liberal.
 
Money that flows to different organizations and to different nations always flows through the hands of insiders who may or may not be trusted not to be skimming from the funds for themselves. For example, tens of thousands or more dollars flow from Planned Parenthood back into democrat campaign coffers each year, which explains why democrats are so adamant to keep funneling so many hundreds of millions of dollars into PP each year.

Bill Ayers was given a government grant of more than $160 million in the early 1990s and with that money he bought Obama a house and introduced him to the world from his own living room. What was a guilty American terrorist bomber doing getting $160 million from the US Treasury with no strings attached? That is politics at its corrupt insider dealing best.
i am willing to bet you cannot produce a valid cite for that bogus assertion
 
i am willing to bet you cannot produce a valid cite for that bogus assertion

To be more specific both Bill Ayers and Barack Obama were heavily involved with the Annenberg Project in Chicago which spent hundreds of millions of public and private dollars on faithful democrats and democrat projects.
 
To be more specific both Bill Ayers and Barack Obama were heavily involved with the Annenberg Project in Chicago which spent hundreds of millions of public and private dollars on faithful democrats and democrat projects.

Regaining control over the corrupt distribution of billions of public and private dollars is the #1 motivation driving democrats in their efforts to regain the White House.
 
To be more specific both Bill Ayers and Barack Obama were heavily involved with the Annenberg Project in Chicago which spent hundreds of millions of public and private dollars on faithful democrats and democrat projects.

you forgot to add that requested cite to your post

until then all that we have is unsourced speculation of the worst kind
 
So...the language of this funding bill has been release. The actual funding legislation is over 5,000 pages, but here is a 29 page summary: Summary of Conference Appropriations Report | United States Government | U.S. Immigration And Customs Enforcement

Highlights:

Provides $1.375 billion, or $4.325 billion less than the $5.7 billion the Trump administration requested, for a very limited 55 miles of physical barrier that can only be placed along the southern border in *only* the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.

Contains language allowing only fencing designs in use as of 2017.

No funding for new border patrol agents above the current on board levels.

Does not fund the Administration's request for joint detention facilities.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel.​

Summary of Negotiated Budget Appropriations W/ Limits on Border Security and No Funding for Border Agents or ICE Agents (full pdf)…. | The Last Refuge

Other highlights:

$415 million for humanitarian aide

$77 million for opioid equipment

1,200 new Customs and Border Patrol Agents (retain current levels)

The bill expands Catch and Release by reducing the number of border beds from 49,060 to 40,520.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel. - that means no more ICE agents to deport people already in the country.

Expands the Alternatives to Detention program from 82,000 to 100,000 - so instead of housing family units at the border- they get moved into the interior where they almost always stay in the country permanently.

Provides $40 million for additional ICE staffing dedicated to overall ATD (Alternatives to Detention) case management, particularly for asylum seekers - so no new ICE agents, but money to ICE to help illegal aliens settle in a non-detention center in the country.

The bill gives over $1 billion for the Smithsonian.

$3.4 billion in refugee assistance - $74 million more than last year.

$4.4 billion in international disaster assistance - $100 million more than last year.

Does not eliminate any foundations that Trump wanted to get rid of including: The Asia Foundation, the U.S. African Development Foundation, the Inter-American Foundation, and the U.S. Trade and Development Agency.

Israel, Ukraine, and Jordan receive $5.3 billion for border security fencing.​

Thread by @RyanGirdusky: "Border wall bill is out, here are some highlights: here are the areas Trump cannot build any wall The bill gives $1.375 billion for construc […]"

Seriously? Congress will provide more money to Israel, Ukraine and Jordan for border barriers than they will to their own country???

Who the hell are these guys working for?

btw, that bollard fence design that's allowed? Pre-2017? That's the stuff that NBC says can be cut through with common household tools.

So tell me...after reading this ****...can ANYONE say that Congressional Dems and Reps care about securing our border?​
this is what happens when
1. You lose clout with the voters sufficient to retain a majority in one House
2. You offend much of your opposition both within and beyond your own party so much that there is virtually no loyalty to you or your leadership.
3. You screw your own allies in Congress by leaving them dangling on a political ledge you drove them on ( promising to support a bill then changing after the vote) and then shut the window so they can't climb back in without breaking the glass ( the whole shutdown debacle).

4. You piss off the future speaker of the House by trying to demonize her in your effort to win midterms, and by insulting her to her face, not once but twice in front of cameras.

Either legislators have to agree with the premise behind a Presidents legislative goals ( they do not agree that this wall will solve this problem or that the size of the problem merits these resources), or they have to like, trust or fear the President enough that they will compromise regardless.


This man has self sabotaged so well, as to ensure none of that is true. I suggest next time you vote for someone who knows what the hell they are doing.
 
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this is what happens when
1. You lose clout with the voters sufficient to retain a majority in one House
2. You offend much of your opposition both within and beyond your own party so much that there is virtually no loyalty to you or your leadership.
3. You screw your own allies in Congress by leaving them dangling on a political ledge you drove them on and then shut the window so they can't climb back in.

4. You piss off the future speaker of the House by trying to demonize her in your effort to win midterms, and by insulting her to her face, not once but twice in front of cameras.

Either legislators have to agree with the premise behind a Presidents legislative goals ( they do not agree that this wall will solve this problem or that the size of the problem merits these resources), or they have to like, trust or fear the President enough that they will compromise regardless.


This man has self sabotaged so well, as to ensure none of that is true.

No.

This is what happens when members of your own Party hate you enough to oppose you...as they have since before you actually got elected.

Nancy...from the other Party...has also opposed Trump since before he was elected. Now she is in a position to act on that opposition.

This is what happens when neither Party...because of their big money donors...do NOT want a wall.
 
No.

This is what happens when members of your own Party hate you enough to oppose you...as they have since before you actually got elected.

Nancy...from the other Party...has also opposed Trump since before he was elected. Now she is in a position to act on that opposition.

This is what happens when neither Party...because of their big money donors...do NOT want a wall.
No. Some presidents know how to marginalize opposition, gain trust, gain allies, give credit to others for victories, pick their battles wisely and get things done. Some Presidents are just amoral apes with no understanding of how to get anything done if they cannot pound a table and threaten their way to success. He's a corporate bully and perpetual liar and that does not fly well when you need to build coalitions and gain credibility. The trick is to get political opponents to want to work with you regardless of politics. He cannot frighten people and he cannot gain their trust that he will sacrifice his political clout for mutual success.
 
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We can discuss my answers without talking about me. This speculation on my state of mind or ability to reason borders on incivil so take the 'you, you, you' out of it and we can keep talking.

Granted, I should have avoided borderline incivility in two sentences of sarcasm. I will make an effort to moderate its practice. But be reminded that it was you that first chortled "That's easy", so if you want to avoid talking about you, then I suggest you don't - after all, to "talk about you" and then be offended over my contrarian view of your own braggadocios comment is not sporting.

Also this is a dialogue, and dialogs are done in the first and second person (not the third person). If you don't like personal exchange, I suggest you don't use "FORUMS", which are places of personal political discussion. Till then when "you" are avoiding answering a question, as is customary, you will be alerted to it. When you keeping making an assumption with no apparent reasoning, you will be encouraged to acknowledge it. And when I see that what you don't say is as reveling about left of center views as what you do say, I will also point that out as well.

Now back to my answers, perhaps I didn't quite catch the original wording. On point A, iI don't subscribe to the idea that the status quo equals 'encouraging illegal immigration'. Congress clearly feels enough is being done already and it keeps the problem manageable. Therefore this compromise, in the form of the spending allocated in the bill shows that Dems in congress also believe resources should be allocated to border security.

First, it is self-evident that the status quo encourages illegal immigration and fake asylum immigration claims - providing sanctuary jurisdictions to protect the unlawful from the consequences of breaking the law always encourages that continued illicit behavior. In fact, catching and releasing the unlawful also encourages others to act unlawful. Routinely failing to arrest the unlawful that is found anywhere within the US also encourages that behavior. Failure to punish the unlawful, even if they are deported, encourages many to try another act of unlawful behavior. What about the "status quo" policies encouraging the unlawful don't you get?

Second, the bill does not preserve the status quo. It closes 20 percent of the available space for the housing of illegals, encouraging more catch and release, as well as intentional dispersal within the US population.

Last, apparently too much is being done to detain illegals, given the above paragraph (and by the way, what Congress as a whole feels and what a majority in the house of representatives feels are two different characterizations).

On B, I don't have an objective benchmark (such as a number) just as long as people aren't streaming across bringing crime and disease and raping willy-nilly, which for the most part they are not. I don't really feel the need to impose a benchmark in order to form an opinion. My position is that illegal immigration is to a point relatively harmless. Obviously humane steps must be taken to mitigate and limit it because a country can't take in everyone forever, but yes, back to point A again, I think it's enough without a wall.

So you don't "feel" a need to develop objective criteria for your support of the unlawful? If people do not have a need of objective criteria as a part of opinion, what do they have, other than a need to blind their cognition to their gut of touch-feely emotions?

Ambiguous words like "willy-nilly" and the consultation with one's gut on the meaning of "relatively harmless" isn't an opinion, its an emotional excretion.
Emotions are the lowest form of cognition. Alone, they do not merit opinion; one does not "feel" an opinion, people think and then believe an opinion - through principles, facts, and the application of reason. Your emotions are not "self-validating" because they are yours, nor are they a source of respectable conviction - no matter how strongly you "feel". An argument is NOT you telling us your opinion based on your gut feelings.

For example:

“The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons in fiscal year 2010 was about 55,000, and the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails was about 296,000 in fiscal year 2009 (the most recent data available), and the majority were from Mexico.”

(Quote of published federal crime statistics at : Illegal Aliens Murder at a Much Higher Rate Than US Citizens Do )

BUT what's the point of informing you? If you can't tell me how many murders by illegal border crossers a year means the border security is acceptable, or why that number is acceptable, then there is nothing to argue over. What is "acceptable" is whatever "feelings" move you in the moment.

Cont.
 
Cont. from 166...

For C, maybe I didn't quite catch the meaning. Rephrase it and I'll have another crack.

For D my criteria is more or less what is already there. A massive wall or permanent barricade is unsightly, environmentally unsound, somewhat inhumane and very costly. Monitored ports of entry and trouble spots along the same lines as what exists seems a reasonable compromise to keep going.

On "C", no need to repeat it. One of your reasons for opposing added border security was that illegal entry is not at the highest point its been in the last 50 years. Think about it. If I said we are not at the highest rate of river and lake water pollution in our history, would you conclude that no water treatment expansion or regulation is needed - would you accept that as determinative of sufficiently clean water? (I doubt it).

In short, comparing a bad case with the "worst" case is not a justification for accepting the bad case as the best that can or should be done.

I most certainly do not believe the notion that 'Dems support an insecure and porous border is because they like illegal aliens to sneak in over the southern border and their provision of unskilled workers for service jobs and potential new voters'. I think they're trying to deal with the problem of enforcement on multiple levels - ethical, environmental, economic, humanitarian and of course political - and therefore the solution cannot be as simple to them as throwing up a big wall to keep swarthy foreigners out.

You don't believe it, but there is no other conclusion possible. In fact, at least you have already established that Dems support an insecure and porous border because doing more is, in at least in your view, "not needed" to prevent anything "less than willy-nilly" crime and other impacts of southern border illegal aliens.

That democrats also see positive effects from encouraging illegal immigration is not in dispute, whether or not you wish to believe it. The claims that illegals are a good thing because they "do jobs Americans won't do" in service work (dishwashers, cooks, nannies, leaf blowers, etc.) is a routine part of Democratic propaganda. (In fact, if they become assimilated as American citizens, deductively you need a continual flow of illegals to replace the ones that no longer do the job that Americans won't do).

Nor has it eluded Democrats or Republicans that all forms of shipping in and certifying foreign persons as newly minted Americans (or their children and grand children) provide lots of Democratic voters. In fact, without the laws being changed in 1965 to open the gates, it would Democrats that would have suffered if dependent on pleasing the existing American people their posterity.

Perhaps you ought to read what the more honest and candid Democrats have had to admit:

How the Democrats Lost Their Way on Immigration - The Atlantic
 
...can ANYONE say that Congressional Dems and Reps care about securing our border?



Why do you care ?


Does the fact that women are transported across the border with duct tape across their mouths enrage you so much ?



If you outlaw illegal immigration, then the only illegal immigrants in the USA will be outlaws.
 
Why do you care ?


Does the fact that women are transported across the border with duct tape across their mouths enrage you so much ?



If you outlaw illegal immigration, then the only illegal immigrants in the USA will be outlaws.

What a stupid post.

But think about what you just said..."If you outlaw illegal immigration". Illegal immigration is already against the law. You can't "outlaw" someone who is already a criminal.
 
you forgot to add that requested cite to your post

until then all that we have is unsourced speculation of the worst kind

Start by googling "Annenberg Project" and begin your in-depth investigation from there, if you really want to know the truth.
 
Start by googling "Annenberg Project" and begin your in-depth investigation from there, if you really want to know the truth.

i want to know the truth
unfortunately, i have never seen you post a cite supporting anything you have ever posted
so, since you imply a familiarity with the source information, copy and paste it here for us all to learn from
 
i want to know the truth
unfortunately, i have never seen you post a cite supporting anything you have ever posted
so, since you imply a familiarity with the source information, copy and paste it here for us all to learn from

I have studied multiple records with thousands of details. I refuse to try to post all of that here. Google "The Chicago Annenberg Project" and look for details about Bill Ayers, hundreds of millions of dollars, and Barack Obama. You will be able to begin to see what really happened between those guys 20 or so years ago.
 
I have studied multiple records with thousands of details. I refuse to try to post all of that here. Google "The Chicago Annenberg Project" and look for details about Bill Ayers, hundreds of millions of dollars, and Barack Obama. You will be able to begin to see what really happened between those guys 20 or so years ago.

i note the lack of a cite from you after a couple of requests

so, i must conclude that there is actually nothing which supports your wild ass claims
 
So...the language of this funding bill has been release. The actual funding legislation is over 5,000 pages, but here is a 29 page summary: Summary of Conference Appropriations Report | United States Government | U.S. Immigration And Customs Enforcement

Highlights:

Provides $1.375 billion, or $4.325 billion less than the $5.7 billion the Trump administration requested, for a very limited 55 miles of physical barrier that can only be placed along the southern border in *only* the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.

Contains language allowing only fencing designs in use as of 2017.

No funding for new border patrol agents above the current on board levels.

Does not fund the Administration's request for joint detention facilities.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel.​

Summary of Negotiated Budget Appropriations W/ Limits on Border Security and No Funding for Border Agents or ICE Agents (full pdf)…. | The Last Refuge

Other highlights:

$415 million for humanitarian aide

$77 million for opioid equipment

1,200 new Customs and Border Patrol Agents (retain current levels)

The bill expands Catch and Release by reducing the number of border beds from 49,060 to 40,520.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel. - that means no more ICE agents to deport people already in the country.

Expands the Alternatives to Detention program from 82,000 to 100,000 - so instead of housing family units at the border- they get moved into the interior where they almost always stay in the country permanently.

Provides $40 million for additional ICE staffing dedicated to overall ATD (Alternatives to Detention) case management, particularly for asylum seekers - so no new ICE agents, but money to ICE to help illegal aliens settle in a non-detention center in the country.

The bill gives over $1 billion for the Smithsonian.

$3.4 billion in refugee assistance - $74 million more than last year.

$4.4 billion in international disaster assistance - $100 million more than last year.

Does not eliminate any foundations that Trump wanted to get rid of including: The Asia Foundation, the U.S. African Development Foundation, the Inter-American Foundation, and the U.S. Trade and Development Agency.

Israel, Ukraine, and Jordan receive $5.3 billion for border security fencing.​

Thread by @RyanGirdusky: "Border wall bill is out, here are some highlights: here are the areas Trump cannot build any wall The bill gives $1.375 billion for construc […]"

Seriously? Congress will provide more money to Israel, Ukraine and Jordan for border barriers than they will to their own country???

Who the hell are these guys working for?

btw, that bollard fence design that's allowed? Pre-2017? That's the stuff that NBC says can be cut through with common household tools.

So tell me...after reading this ****...can ANYONE say that Congressional Dems and Reps care about securing our border?​



Excellent idea!!

And how long will the government be shut down this time?

You guys never learn.
 
Haha, have you seen what looks like his go-to phrase for 2020 that he's been spouting at rallies? "Finish the wall!" :lamo

Sure, he's not any closer to having the wall than he was in 2016 but his retarded and educationally challenged supporters can't tell the difference. It's not about results, rather rhetoric.



It's called "re-brading". It was invented by Coke after they so cleverly canceled the original Coke and had to come back with something, so it was "re-branded" to "Classic Coke"

In this case Trump is trying to disguise the fact NOTHING has been done for the two years he had a majority and could have ordered up &10 billion without a peep. That's going to be a hard sell, even for the guy who spends three hours a day on his hair!
 
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