Trump quotes Alan Dershowitz saying consideration of 25th Amendment ‘despicable’

[Atomic Kid]

What exactly is wrong with what was tweeted?

Let's parse this out shall we?



Well that part is true, as the purpose of the 25th Amendment is NOT to circumvent an election, but rather to establish and validate the succession in the event of the death or incapacitation of the President, fill Vice-Presidential vacancies by the VP's death or incapacitation, and have the VP take over in the event the President is determined unable to discharge the duties of his office. That usually means serious illness, injury, or clear mental incapacity.

It is not set up to allow a "palace coup" of disgruntled officials who don't like the results of an election.




This also sounds right if the sole purpose is to depose an elected official simply because you disagree with his policies, or have a personal animus, and want someone else in the office instead.



Well this seems historically accurate, at least as far back in the 50's - 70's...although it is not that unusual these days either IMO.

Well I think unfortunately that a case can be made for mental incapacity.

 

[Oborosen]

Please read the 25th and then quote the part that requires it's use to be justified and specifies who decides if its use is justified

Apologies, I should've worded that differently.

The question should read "how can the 25th be justified in removing Trump".

 

[Oborosen]

Wikipedia has a good explanation:

Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

See, you're already off on a good foot. I do love me a good citation.

Though I will say that I should've worded my question before more accurately. It was supposed to say "How can the 25th amendment be justified in removing Trump from the presidency?" because we've seen people throw it around as a possible thing to use around here on DP.

 

[Nickyjo]

I fail to see how the 25th amendment can be justified to remove President Trump. It doesn't make any sense.

I’d question his mental fitness if only for his painful to watch sing-song description of the appellate process challenging his recent emergency declaration. More seriously, if as is alleged, he told his intel people that he believed Putin over them concerning N Korea, that’s serious stuff. Yes, intel agencies get things wrong, but Trump never seems to back up his assertions with other sets of facts. At least we can take comfort that he offered Putin, rather than his usual “a lot of people are saying.”

 

[GreatNews2night]

LOL, so literally, Trump is saying that a part of the constitution is unconstitutional? Is there a limit to the idiocy of this man's opinions???

In the same week, we get:

There is an emergency, we must do something about it urgently... but I didn't really need to do it.
The 25th amendment [to the Constitution; therefore part of it] is unconstitutional.

LOL, what a moron.

 

[MauiMan]

See, you're already off on a good foot. I do love me a good citation.

Though I will say that I should've worded my question before more accurately. It was supposed to say "How can the 25th amendment be justified in removing Trump from the presidency?" because we've seen people throw it around as a possible thing to use around here on DP.

I see. Use of the 25th is ludicrous, as Trump is not incapacitated. He’s just goofy and lies a lot. We would have to remove every president. If people don’t like him, don’t vote for him. I think that’s how it works.

 

[Aberration]

If you think Trump said that using the 25th Amendment is Unconstitutional you’re an idiot who can’t read. Probably a result of your TDS.

There is plenty of room to criticize what the man says without you all making up #FakeNews.

 

[Aberration]

I’d question his mental fitness if only for his painful to watch sing-song description of the appellate process challenging his recent emergency declaration. More seriously, if as is alleged, he told his intel people that he believed Putin over them concerning N Korea, that’s serious stuff. Yes, intel agencies get things wrong, but Trump never seems to back up his assertions with other sets of facts. At least we can take comfort that he offered Putin, rather than his usual “a lot of people are saying.”

It seems a lot of people equate mental fitness with “thinks like I do”.

 

[sangha]

Apologies, I should've worded that differently.

The question should read "how can the 25th be justified in removing Trump".

The answer is "However the people who exercise it want to"

In Trump's case, I think it would be based on either mental/psychological disability or entanglement with a foreign power

 

[Anthony60]

The language is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office." A president compromised by a hostile foreign power would certainly fall into that bucket.

So, after years of investigating, there is absolutely no indication that Trump has been "compromised by a hostile foreign power". What makes you think that there would be evidence to remove him after 10 minutes in office?

 

[American]

Trump quotes Alan Dershowitz saying consideration of 25th Amendment ‘despicable’

What Trump said was that using the 25th was that it is.... "unconstitutional powergrabbing"... if he gets to invent the reason.

Investigating a sitting goresident for crimes has happened under practically every administration. I would concede that if every president before Trump has come out as innocent, it's because they are or were pardonned before the investigations got too close...you know, like Nixon. Others I would still have reservations about and believe they are probably guilty, just unproven.

What is more interesting is that both Trump and Dershowitz make serious mistakes in their arguments. Dershowitz invents an interpretation of the 25th accepted by absolutely no one else and Trump unilaterally declares that using an amendment is unconstitutional.

Horrifying.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

This is nothing more than a Derschowitz quote. What part did Trump say?

 

[American]

LOL, so literally, Trump is saying that a part of the constitution is unconstitutional? Is there a limit to the idiocy of this man's opinions???

In the same week, we get:

There is an emergency, we must do something about it urgently... but I didn't really need to do it.
The 25th amendment [to the Constitution; therefore part of it] is unconstitutional.

LOL, what a moron.

You're just flailing all over the place, aren't you?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I fail to see how the 25th amendment can be justified to remove President Trump. It doesn't make any sense.

If a majority of Trump's cabinet declare twice that Trump is either unable or unwilling to fulfill the responsibilities of the office, and both the House and Senate by a 2/3 majority agree, Trump is out. Justification is irrelevant.

However, since each cabinet member is hand picked by Trump, and personal loyalty is Trump's litmus test, there is absolutely no chance that a majority of the cabinet would ever vote to remove Trump.

That being said, Trump's assertion that the 25th amendment is "unconstitutional" demonstrates his idiocy once again.

 

[Hatuey]

This is nothing more than a Derschowitz quote. What part did Trump say?

You're having trouble understanding the point of a retweet. We get it.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Alan Dershowitz: Ousting Trump via 25th Amendment is ‘clearly an attempt at a coup d’etat’

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz on Thursday said the Department of Justice’s discussions to employ the 25th Amendment to oust President Trump– if true– amounted to an attempted coup.

Dershowitz appeared on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” to give his take on former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe’s descriptions of Justice Department meetings where he said officials discussed ousting the president.

“If [McCabe’s comments are] true, it is clearly an attempt at a coup d’état,” Dershowitz said.

Evoking the 25th Amendment, Dershowitz added, would be a fundamental misuse of its original purpose. He said it was originally “about Woodrow Wilson having a stroke. It’s about a president being shot and not being able to perform his office.”

Dershowitz said any justice official who discussed the 25th Amendment in the context of ousting the president “has committed a grievous offense against the Constitution.”

Alan Dershowitz: Yes, Using the 25th Amendment to Oust Trump is an Attempted Coup

 

[American]

You're having trouble understanding the point of a retweet. We get it.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

Whatever

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Alan Dershowitz: Ousting Trump via 25th Amendment is ‘clearly an attempt at a coup d’etat’

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz on Thursday said the Department of Justice’s discussions to employ the 25th Amendment to oust President Trump– if true– amounted to an attempted coup.

Dershowitz appeared on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” to give his take on former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe’s descriptions of Justice Department meetings where he said officials discussed ousting the president.

“If [McCabe’s comments are] true, it is clearly an attempt at a coup d’état,” Dershowitz said.

Evoking the 25th Amendment, Dershowitz added, would be a fundamental misuse of its original purpose. He said it was originally “about Woodrow Wilson having a stroke. It’s about a president being shot and not being able to perform his office.”

Dershowitz said any justice official who discussed the 25th Amendment in the context of ousting the president “has committed a grievous offense against the Constitution.”

Alan Dershowitz: Yes, Using the 25th Amendment to Oust Trump is an Attempted Coup

"Invoking the constitution is unconstitutional!"

Dershowitz is a moron

 

[Nickyjo]

It seems a lot of people equate mental fitness with “thinks like I do”.

I don't care if he thinks like I do or not. Just don't want him thinking like Putin.

 

[Oborosen]

The answer is "However the people who exercise it want to"

In Trump's case, I think it would be based on either mental/psychological disability or entanglement with a foreign power

Being a psychologist, I can already tell you that no one who takes their position in my field seriously. Would be willing to declare him mentally unsound, without first examining the man personally.

I cannot attest to the entanglement issue. This whole collusion investigation is possibly going to end up being a waste of time. Though the whole story on that isn't out yet and they may just have something, so I don't know.

 

[Aberration]

I don't care if he thinks like I do or not. Just don't want him thinking like Putin.

Besides the fabrications and mad rantings of sore losers, there has yet to be any evidence of that.

Losers were calling for impeachment and any way to remove before he was even inaugurated. Confirmation bias assures those losers will believe any nonsense put forth they think will further that end. It doesn’t matter how stupid or clearly fabricated it is.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[sangha]

Being a psychologist, I can already tell you that no one who takes their position in my field seriously. Would be willing to declare him mentally unsound, without first examining the man personally.

I cannot attest to the entanglement issue. This whole collusion investigation is possibly going to end up being a waste of time. Though the whole story on that isn't out yet and they may just have something, so I don't know.

The 25th does not require an in-person evaluation by a mental health professional

 

[Nickyjo]

Besides the fabrications and mad rantings of sore losers, there has yet to be any evidence of that.

Losers were calling for impeachment and any way to remove before he was even inaugurated. Confirmation bias assures those losers will believe any nonsense put forth they think will further that end. It doesn’t matter how stupid or clearly fabricated it is.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Ok, I'll bite. What's your take on things like Trump saying Russia isn't in Ukraine, changing of the GOP platform part concerning Russia, supporting the revisionist history of the invasion of Afghanistan, etc.? Trump was right that it is a positive for us to have a good relationship with Russia, but rolling over for them is not.

 

[Oborosen]

The 25th does not require an in-person evaluation by a mental health professional

Then I would not consider it a good tool, given the amount of opinion that could sway such a decision. We've had news groups before, like Vox. That have stated in the past his mental capacity should be evaluated "by force if necessary". Doesn't give me any hope for a legitimate wielding of such power.

 

[MauiMan]

"Invoking the constitution is unconstitutional!"

Dershowitz is a moron

There was no attempt to overthrow the government. There is a process for removing a sitting president. Dershowitz should know better. Shameful.

 

[Aberration]

Ok, I'll bite. What's your take on things like Trump saying Russia isn't in Ukraine, changing of the GOP platform part concerning Russia, supporting the revisionist history of the invasion of Afghanistan, etc.? Trump was right that it is a positive for us to have a good relationship with Russia, but rolling over for them is not.

Trump said Russia isn’t in Ukraine? So what? He’s made many contradictory comments that Russia is in Ukraine. [emoji2369]

Trump didn’t change the GOP platform. And the women who claims he requested support for weakening Ukraine arms support is refuted by Gordon.

What’s your beef over Afghanistan? Sorry too many conspiracy theories to follow.

There is zero evidence Trump has rolled over for Russia. By all means, being something to argue if you think he has. I guarantee it’s not going to amount to flying billions in cash in the dark of night.