Trump lawyer dismisses tax return demand

[Tanngrisnir]

You would have to ask him. But saying he would release his returns does not mean he has forfeited his 4A rights.

The fourth amendment is irrelevant to the law in this case, and the law is crystal clear.

Fun to see how much that makes people scream in impotent rage.

The house will have his returns. It's just that simple.

 

[apdst]

Well, Congress didn't ask him at any rate, but rather the IRS. It's highly likely that Congress will win this battle, but once these things hit the courts you can never be entirely certain.

The law clearly states that ways and means must ask the SECTRES. They're in error on procedural grounds.

 

[apdst]

The fourth amendment is irrelevant to the law in this case, and the law is crystal clear.

Fun to see how much that makes people scream in impotent rage.

The house will have his returns. It's just that simple.

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It's never irrelevant.

Stop posting about things you know nothing about.

 

[Fletch]

Well, Congress didn't ask him at any rate, but rather the IRS. It's highly likely that Congress will win this battle, but once these things hit the courts you can never be entirely certain.

I dont know that congress will win. They might. It might also come down to how tax returns are acquired by a prosecutor investigating a financial crime. If they need probable cause to get their hands on your return due to your 4A rights then I dont see how congress could exempt itself. But we will see.

 

[OscarLevant]

Trump lawyer dismisses tax return demand - BBC News

Donald Trump has the right to keep his tax returns private and Democrats' demand to see them are "harassment", a lawyer for the president has said.

William Consovoy's statement hints at the shape of a possible future legal battle over the issue.
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This is likely to wind up with the Supremes, which Trump has packed with friendly justices. But the tax code is clear on this: 26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

6103 (f) (1): (f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

So it will be a court battle, after all. Well, if it goes to SCOTUS, I don't see how Gorsuch, who has, over and over again, "outcomes are not considered by a good judge, only the law" is going to go against that law, plus the fact that the Treas. Dept gave the committee Nixon's, Agnew's, and Rockerfeller's taxes based on that law back in the 70s.

 

[Athanasius68]

So you don't have a coherent position aside from a reflexive and mindless defense of Trump, then.

Okie doke.

And what's the rationale for the committee to see the returns?

 

[Cardinal]

I dont know that congress will win. They might. It might also come down to how tax returns are acquired by a prosecutor investigating a financial crime. If they need probable cause to get their hands on your return due to your 4A rights then I dont see how congress could exempt itself. But we will see.

I have yet to see a single legal professional who's taken the position that the Ways and Means Committee isn't completely in its legal rights to get the tax returns.

 

[Fletch]

I have yet to see a single legal professional who's taken the position that the Ways and Means Committee isn't completely in its legal rights to get the tax returns.

They may be. It also may be that they granted themselves a power they dont legitimately have.

 

[OscarLevant]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

There will be a court case.

There is probable cause.

 

[JacksinPA]

And what's the rationale for the committee to see the returns?

Tax returns define the man. It has been traditional since Eisenhower for presidential candidates to release their taxes. Trump said he would release them, now for some odd reason he has changed his mind. Does he have something to hide?

 

[Cardinal]

They may be. It also may be that they granted themselves a power they dont legitimately have.

Congress has the right to make laws, so that's a contradiction.

But this debate can only take place in the realm of the theoretical, because I don't expect a legal battle to wrap up for at least a year.

In my opinion, it isn't tactically smart for Trump to delay this. If his tax returns are released now and it contains the stuff of nightmares, well, there are about eight thousand news cycles between now and November, 2020. For one, Trump supporters aren't going to revoke their support for him regardless of what's in the returns, and his critics are hardly going to be surprised by any negative findings in them, so a year and a half after the release and the needle will have moved back to about where it is now. By November of 2020, Independent voters will be occupied by whatever the news story du jour is.

But (and this is of course assuming the worst of his returns), the sooner to election day this matter is resolved, the worse it could be for Trump.

 

[Fletch]

Congress has the right to make laws, so that's a contradiction.

No its not. Congress does not have the right to make laws that violate the Constitution. What will be decided in court is whether that is what happened.

But this debate can only take place in the realm of the theoretical, because I don't expect a legal battle to wrap up for at least a year.

In my opinion, it isn't tactically smart for Trump to delay this. If his tax returns are released now and it contains the stuff of nightmares, well, there are about eight thousand news cycles between now and November, 2020. For one, Trump supporters aren't going to revoke their support for him regardless of what's in the returns, and his critics are hardly going to be surprised by any negative findings in them, so a year and a half after the release and the needle will have moved back to about where it is now. By November of 2020, Independent voters will be occupied by whatever the news story du jour is.

But (and this is of course assuming the worst of his returns), the sooner to election day this matter is resolved, the worse it could be for Trump.

Theres no telling how long it would take to wind through the courts or that Trump would ultimately lose. If I were him, I wouldnt turn them over either.

 

[Athanasius68]

Tax returns define the man. It has been traditional since Eisenhower for presidential candidates to release their taxes. Trump said he would release them, now for some odd reason he has changed his mind. Does he have something to hide?

Probably. Who doesn't.
Doesn't mean it's any of your business.
Vote against him in 2020.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It's never irrelevant.

Stop posting about things you know nothing about.

The law has not been found to be unconstitutional. You lose. Again.

For the billionth time.

 

[jimbo]

There is probable cause.

Questionable at best. But the courts will decide.

 

[Integrityrespec]

The law couldn't be much clearer. But the point isn't so much to win as it is to delay the release of his tax returns for as long as possible. It's always been about putting it off til tomorrow.

It's just harassment by the democrats. There is no obvious reason for the democrats to see the tax returns. Trump is under audit, which doesn't legally stop him from releasing his returns but whey would he. He filed the financial forms required by law when he ran for office, he is not required to do any more. This is just because the Mueller report failed to prove their crazy claims.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

It's just harassment by the democrats. There is no obvious reason for the democrats to see the tax returns. Trump is under audit, which doesn't legally stop him from releasing his returns but whey would he. He filed the financial forms required by law when he ran for office, he is not required to do any more. This is just because the Mueller report failed to prove their crazy claims.

Yes, there are obvious reasons for doing this. The IRS is required to turn them over on demand. It's the law.

It's sad that we have a president who plays with his own poo.

 

[Cardinal]

It's just harassment by the democrats. There is no obvious reason for the democrats to see the tax returns. Trump is under audit,

Why do you believe he's under audit?

which doesn't legally stop him from releasing his returns but whey would he.

Because he spent years saying he would.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

There will be a court case.

Did you know that the Income Tax return that you file is NOT your property once filed?

Did you know that a "reasonable search or seizure" is one that the law has defined as being permissible?

Of course there will be a court case. There always is. That's why someone who is convicted of Murder when they are 18 and sentenced to be executed can spend the next 40+ years in custody and die of natural causes prior to their execution.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The law is very clear. Ways and Means can request private tax docs. The law doesn't say it will necessarily get them.

Quite right.

Unless, of course, your lips don't get too tired to continue on until you get to the "... the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified ..." (emphasis added for the cognitively impaired) bit.

 

[apdst]

Quite right.

Unless, of course, your lips don't get too tired to continue on until you get to the "... the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified ..." (emphasis added for the cognitively impaired) bit.

More misinterpretation of the law.

If turning over the private docs is mandatory, the law wouldn't say "request".

The fact that you're posting insults proves that you know you're wrong.

 

[apdst]

Did you know that the Income Tax return that you file is NOT your property once filed?

Did you know that a "reasonable search or seizure" is one that the law has defined as being permissible?

Of course there will be a court case. There always is. That's why someone who is convicted of Murder when they are 18 and sentenced to be executed can spend the next 40+ years in custody and die of natural causes prior to their execution.

Actually, it is.

Your ignorance of our laws is astounding.

 

[Born Free]

The Constitution vs the IRS tax code. Sure it will wind up in court. That's what Trump wants: delay the inevitable. If he had nothing to hide this wouldn't be an issue, right?

I take it, that when you are issued a subpoena to turn over 6 yrs of tax returns, without cause. Your OK with that. Then you must also be OK with any officer stopping you he can search your car without cause. To go further your OK with any government agency having blanket authority to raid your house, or houses, and cars and where you work without cause.

 

[jimbo]

Does not Trump have the same right to privacy as anybody else? Tax returns are private, nobody's business. People pay lots of money every year to protect their financial information, because it is private. So is Trump's.

This is just a continuation of the Democrat's hate-fueled witch hunt. They lost with Mueller, now they are resurrecting the dead tax issue. Democrats can all go rot in hell.

If the House Democrats had asked for the one return that happened while President Trump was in office, they might actually (access on might) have a shot, but Congress need not concern itself with anything that happened while President Trump was a private citizen. Other than 35, a natural born citizen, and a 14 year resident, the public can vote for an ax murderer pedophile, or a tax cheat if they choose.

Congress is grandstanding. Nothing more.

 

[jimbo]

Yes, there are obvious reasons for doing this. The IRS is required to turn them over on demand. It's the law.

It's sad that we have a president who plays with his own poo.

On demand? No. The law is specific on who and why. As I read it, Congress as a body is not entitled, just certain specific committees. The public is not entitled.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. just the way I see it.