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Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father

apdst said:
Federal taxes don't. The IRS doesn't maintain state tax records. :lamo
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Correct. I'm unclear on what your point is. NY has an independent estate and gift tax system, but it piggybacks off federal law. Point is if it was illegal under federal law it's almost certainly illegal under NY law and they can and do engage in their own audits and prosecutions of NY state tax laws, completely independent of the Feds.

I don't know what the statutes are in NYS or what they were at the time, but that's not what we're discussing.
 
JasperL said:
I know he won't listen, but just FYI I don't know much about NY estate and gift taxes, but all states had them during the years in question because it was kind of a freebie for them. Hard to explain but the Feds allowed a credit for STATE estate and gift taxes paid, up to a maximum. So every state at a minimum assessed estate and gift taxes up to the maximum allowable FEDERAL credit. Essentially, the Feds did the work and shared a part of the estate taxes owed with the states - that's how it worked in practice. Taxpayers/heirs didn't care because if the state didn't take their cut, it all went to the Feds, because if they paid no state taxes, they could claim no state credit). So we'd file a federal return, then a state return that was basically (roughly 99%) the federal return with a few minor changes.

For this purpose the relevant part is the state was under no obligation to accept the Federal return as filed, or as amended post audit, and sometimes did their own audits. The STATE estate auditors were often idiots who were a pain in the ass, nickel and dime stuff because the big stuff was way over their head, but that was OK because the state relied on the Feds and could afford to hire idiots. But....they have or had their own "independent" taxing system.

The feds did away with the credit a few years ago so the landscape has changed, but that's how it worked in the years in question.
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You can't find a state tax official in my state. You're lucky to get somebody to answer the phone. Actually the person answering the phone when its finally answered at the state office is likely the most competent tax official in the entire state when the person is not dutifully shuffling paper! Sorry to be so blunt about it...but to this day state tax offices and competence should simply not appear in the same sentence.

Now state liquor officials/commissioners...you can't hardly turn over a rock or shake a tree and one of those will pop out and they very competently know how to take their cut of the action.
 
JasperL said:
Correct. I'm unclear on what your point is. NY has an independent estate and gift tax system, but it piggybacks off federal law. Point is if it was illegal under federal law it's almost certainly illegal under NY law and they can and do engage in their own audits and prosecutions of NY state tax laws, completely independent of the Feds.

[BpI don't know what the statutes are in NYS or what they were at the time, but that's not what we're discussing.[/b]
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You sure as hell acted like you wanted to discuss it.

You don't get to change the subject, because you start looking stupid.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
This is tax evasion and fraud.

Selling someone $15 million in shares for $10,000 is a form of tax evasion. Why don't you try that and see if you go to prison?

Aren't you the one who wanted to lock Hillary up over emails? I guess you feel tax fraud is OK?

Let's face it, Trump is a crook.
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Is violating the espionage act ok with you? Obviously it is. Hypocrite much?

Post a link proving it's tax evasion.
 
apdst said:
So, no civil case, like JANFU was harping about?

Can NY go back 20+ years?
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I'm not a Federal or state prosecutor, but if what's alleged is true, and there are multiple different clearly fraudulent acts described, then the family clearly intentionally engaged in what would qualify as civil tax fraud. The bargain sale for $10,000 of a stake worth $millions is one example already quoted for you. Another is using a company to inflate invoices and transfer assets from Fred to the kids by overcharging Fred's companies. Some of the appraisals appear clearly fraudulent because as alleged they used improper valuation techniques - based them on facts that were not true at the time of the appraisals, such as being in the low income housing programs.

And the fact that auditors reviewed the returns and closed them years ago isn't necessarily a bar. IRS CAN reopen closed cases:

When Reopening the Closed Case is Unfavorable to the Taxpayer

The IRS may sometimes reopen a closed case to make an adjustment which is unfavorable to the taxpayer. In general, cases will not be re-opened except under certain circumstances, such as: 1) evidence of tax fraud, malfeasance, collusion, concealment, or misrepresentation of a material fact; 2) where the prior closing involved a “clearly defined substantial error based on an established service position existing at the time of the previous examination”; or 3) any other circumstances which suggest that failure to reopen the case will result in a serious omission.
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The bottom line is there is no effective statute of limitations on serious tax fraud. IRS can't send you to jail, but if caught years later can send you a bill for easily twice or three times the taxes evaded...
 
JasperL said:
I'm not a Federal or state prosecutor, but if what's alleged is true, and there are multiple different clearly fraudulent acts described, then the family clearly intentionally engaged in what would qualify as civil tax fraud. The bargain sale for $10,000 of a stake worth $millions is one example already quoted for you. Another is using a company to inflate invoices and transfer assets from Fred to the kids by overcharging Fred's companies. Some of the appraisals appear clearly fraudulent because as alleged they used improper valuation techniques - based them on facts that were not true at the time of the appraisals, such as being in the low income housing programs.

And the fact that auditors reviewed the returns and closed them years ago isn't necessarily a bar. IRS CAN reopen closed cases:



The bottom line is there is no effective statute of limitations on serious tax fraud. IRS can't send you to jail, but if caught years later can send you a bill for easily twice or three times the taxes evaded...
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Yep! There it is!

Then, there's the question of how the docs got leaked. There's the real crime.
 
apdst said:
Yep! There it is!
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There what is - that Dear Leader might only be at risk for maybe $50-100 million or more in back taxes and penalties? Ok...

Then, there's the question of how the docs got leaked. There's the real crime.
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There's apdst moving the goal posts - your specialty! I'm done unless you have a substantive comment to make.
 
Moderate Right said:
Anyone who watches MSNBC has no right calling the other side out for watching Fox News. Fake news is fake news on both sides.
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Fake news phrase never existed until Donald Trump stamped on your brain

If you are conned so easily that makes you a first class sucker
 
jnug said:
You can't find a state tax official in my state. You're lucky to get somebody to answer the phone. Actually the person answering the phone when its finally answered at the state office is likely the most competent tax official in the entire state when the person is not dutifully shuffling paper! Sorry to be so blunt about it...but to this day state tax offices and competence should simply not appear in the same sentence.

Now state liquor officials/commissioners...you can't hardly turn over a rock or shake a tree and one of those will pop out and they very competently know how to take their cut of the action.
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Is that in NY?

Anyway, same is roughly true here for the most part. What's also true, though, at least in Tennessee, is the TBI (state FBI) has some smart people and they use the STATE tax code pretty often to nail people caught in financial crimes. It's an add-on generally, the fraud, then the tax fraud, but they're smart prosecutors in many cases and definitely can use tax evasion as an important part of their cases, in part because it's so obvious and easy to prove sometimes - at least according to a friend in TBI.

She just finished a case involving a ponzi scheme targeted to old retirees through churches (cause of course, always a favorite for con artists, wrap their scheme in the cross) and the STATE tax angle was low hanging but juicy fruit (KY mostly, but some in TN) - he failed to report millions in income they could track through his accounts.
 
JasperL said:
There what is - that Dear Leader might only be at risk for maybe $50-100 million or more in back taxes and penalties? Ok...



There's apdst moving the goal posts - your specialty! I'm done unless you have a substantive comment to make.
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So, leaking confidential tax documents isn't a crime? Oh, ok.
 
veritas1 said:
It now makes sense as to why the IRS has been all over Trump. Oh wait, no they haven't. What kind of incompetents are over there anyway?:lol:
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Yes it clearly is the IRS's fault that Trump is a crook. In fact it makes him a hero. That is how low you and the rest of his sycophants have sunk.
 
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apdst said:
Yep! There it is!

Then, there's the question of how the docs got leaked. There's the real crime.
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Right, it is always the messengers fault. Trump is a hero for exposing how easy it is to lie and cheat your way thru life. Especially f your father was a crook too and gives you $400 mill. of his ill gotten gains. The Trumps needs to forfeit all their assets like any other crime family.
 
Republicans exposed as frauds? Whodda thunk it?
 
"The creation myth of the billionaire businessman Donald Trump just imploded" is the lead over at the Premier Pro Victim Culture Propaganda Center running as the CNN brand.
 
Trump has had how many IRS audits?

This would not have already been uncovered through the audits by people in the IRS who are professionals at finding these things?

Just asking .
 
calamity said:
WTF?

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No wonder Don is so weird looking. His dad is an alien.
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Bad face lift, and terrible dye job. No excuse for it when you have that sort of $.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Trump has had how many IRS audits?

This would not have already been uncovered through the audits by people in the IRS who are professionals at finding these things?

Just asking .
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Clearly you ask too many questions!

Dont be asking about the timing either, no one wants to get into that!
 
PoliSciXtina said:
Really... no way?! And all this time I thought he got rich due to hard work, determination, and honesty!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Trump has been building walls all of his life,both literally and figuratively.
 
I think this might have been mentioned somewhere on the forum before but somebody needs to explain to me how you lose money on a CASINO! Who losses $9B in the casino business? Donald Trump does. I guess the House doesn't always win. Looks like any House owned by Donald Trump never won.
 
jnug said:
I think this might have been mentioned somewhere on the forum before but somebody needs to explain to me how you lose money on a CASINO! Who losses $9B in the casino business? Donald Trump does. I guess the House doesn't always win. Looks like any House owned by Donald Trump never won.
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skimming and laundering and off shore accounts?
 
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