Trump delays tariff increase on request from China

[TU Curmudgeon]

Biden His family has been making BIG bucks off of China

If I understand your position correctly, absolutely no one who is involved in American politics should be, or have any of their family members be, involved in any business enterprise which does business with any foreign country (unless, of course, the person is a "Republican" [whatever that means]).

Does that just about sum it up?

 

[MTAtech]

That's pretty optimistic for a variety of reasons on his part; some of which you covered. It would make sense to shift manufacturing to other developing nations because outside of the cheaper labor, there are likely tax incentives and really lax environmental laws that keep the cost of doing business there low.

That's what we have left the free market to decide. It just seems like a few years ago that Republicans were lecturing us how there is something wrong with the government making decisions that are best left to the free market. Now, they are all for Trump micro-managing the economy, even when he has no idea how any of this works.

 

[TomFitz]

It is my guess that the Chinese know well the value of patience. [Ref: Shōgun, James Clavel, 1975] Given the apparent attention span of President of the United States of America Donald Trump, absent a very few fixations such as the border wall, such a policy seems reasonable.

Shogun was set in Japan.

 

[Kushinator]

We must divorce economically from China and have a much more adversarial/confrontational tone with them. The Chinese government is akin to the modern day Nazi's of our time and we have a moral obligation to oppose the regime, not to mention they also threaten our national security (and moreso our allies).

This should be done even if it causes some economic pain.

I disagree entirely. China is a world power, and stable relations is what will contain future conflict. Economic integration is vital strategy to achieve this end.

That such a policy would only create economic instability is another argument for opposition.

 

[Torus34]

Shogun was set in Japan.

Hi! It most certainly was. That in no manner detracts from the point I was attempting in my poor, halting way to make: that patience pays dividends.

Regards, and do comment again sometime.

 

[MTAtech]

We must divorce economically from China and have a much more adversarial/confrontational tone with them. The Chinese government is akin to the modern day Nazi's of our time and we have a moral obligation to oppose the regime, not to mention they also threaten our national security (and moreso our allies).

This should be done even if it causes some economic pain.

I must completely disagree too. The ideals of capitalism and free markets -- two concepts that conservative Republicans used to believe as a religion, said that we are all better off when the invisible hand of the free market is allowed to work unfettered. Thus, we benefit when businesses trading with China provides Americans and American companies with the goods and services that best fit their needs. Somehow, Trump gets elected and government deciding who businesses trade with is not only not resisted on ideological grounds but accepted as a new normal.

There is also a bit of hypocrisy with the above quote, which renounces doing business with a "regime." Yet, the American administration is just fine with trading and supporting regimes around the world, such as the regime in Saudi Arabia that provides a sizable portion of the world's oil supply and has an organization, OPEC, that helps control the supply and the price of world oil.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Biden His family has been making BIG bucks off of China

If that's true, which it may or may not be, that doesn't make Biden less trustworthy or more indecisive than Trump.

 

[trouble13]

I don't think low cost manufacturing is going to come back to the US unless it's all nearly completely automated. Trump is not being realistic if he thinks low-skilled manufacturing jobs will come to the US from China. However, I do think shifting such production to other countries like India, Vietnam, Mexico, Thailand, etc. is a very real possibility and it would be much better to have things come from there than using cheap manufacturing to empower the Chinese regime.

I dont think he intends for it to return here. I dont think he wants it to move out of china. He is arguing for china to opentheir markets up ro american companies sowe can sell more goods to them. He also is arguing for proprietary protection of american technology. If he gets those 2 things to happen the tariffs go away.

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[TomFitz]

I dont think he intends for it to return here. I dont think he wants it to move out of china. He is arguing for china to opentheir markets up ro american companies sowe can sell more goods to them. He also is arguing for proprietary protection of american technology. If he gets those 2 things to happen the tariffs go away.

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If that were the case, then why does he repeatedly emphasize bringing back manufacturing jobs? And why did so much of rust belt America buy that?

 

[trouble13]

If that were the case, then why does he repeatedly emphasize bringing back manufacturing jobs? And why did so much of rust belt America buy that?

If china opened up its markets to us that gives our industries another 1.3 billion customers to peddle our wares to. That increased demand will create jobs.

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[Dittohead not!]

If that were the case, then 1 why does he repeatedly emphasize bringing back manufacturing jobs? 2 And why did so much of rust belt America buy that?

1. Because he knew the rust belt would buy it.
2. Because he was telling them what they wanted to hear.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Shogun was set in Japan.

Quite right, and China is in Europe so the Chinese all think like Americans because Americans all came from Europe - right?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I dont think he intends for it to return here. I dont think he wants it to move out of china. He is arguing for china to opentheir markets up ro american companies sowe can sell more goods to them. He also is arguing for proprietary protection of american technology. If he gets those 2 things to happen the tariffs go away.

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You might want to note that

In 1980, China became a member of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

It has patterned its IPR laws on the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works and the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS).[citation needed]

China acceded to the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property on 14 November 1984 and became an official member on 19 March 1985. China also acceded to the Madrid Agreement for the International Registration of Trademarks in June 1989.
[SOURCE]​

You might also want to note that the most recent date mentioned in that clip is 1989 which is 30 years ago.

Possibly Mr. Trump might want to considering updating to the 21[sup]st[/sup] Century?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If that were the case, then why does he repeatedly emphasize bringing back manufacturing jobs? And why did so much of rust belt America buy that?

Because promising people jobs is going to increase his chances of getting re-elected more that something like

Hey, you aren't going to get your jobs back but the corporations are going to continue to make lots of money by moving their operations from one place where it cost less to operate than it does in the US to another place where it costs less to operate than it does in the US.​

would?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If china opened up its markets to us that gives our industries another 1.3 billion customers to peddle our wares to. That increased demand will create jobs.

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True.

And if the US opened up its markets to China that would give the lower cost Chinese firms a whole lot more customers to sell to. That increased demand will also create jobs (in China). That it would reduce jobs in the US we simply won't talk about.

The odds of the Chinese allowing the US greater access to their markets without the US allowing China greater access to American markets are roughly the same as the odds that the heat death of the Universe will occur at PRECISELY 0937 GMT next St. Swithen's Day.

PS - You do know that the Chinese have already allowed American firms greater access to the Chinese market - don't you? You do know that those American firms that received greater access to the Chinese market hadn't been able to sell as much as they had been allowed to sell (because the Chinese simply don't like their products) don't you?

 

[dixon01767]

They also know that he can be bought, which makes me wonder whether there was a side-deal that we don't know about influencing his decision to delay tariffs.

Yeah, an exchange for the elimination of tariffs implemented by China

 

[dixon01767]

True.

And if the US opened up its markets to China......

They have been opened for a long time.

 

[trouble13]

True.

And if the US opened up its markets to China that would give the lower cost Chinese firms a whole lot more customers to sell to. That increased demand will also create jobs (in China). That it would reduce jobs in the US we simply won't talk about.

The odds of the Chinese allowing the US greater access to their markets without the US allowing China greater access to American markets are roughly the same as the odds that the heat death of the Universe will occur at PRECISELY 0937 GMT next St. Swithen's Day.

PS - You do know that the Chinese have already allowed American firms greater access to the Chinese market - don't you? You do know that those American firms that received greater access to the Chinese market hadn't been able to sell as much as they had been allowed to sell (because the Chinese simply don't like their products) don't you?

My understanding is that befor the tariffs china jad hreater access to our market than we do theirs which is a contributing factor to the $500 billion trade deficit we have with them

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[TU Curmudgeon]

My understanding is that befor the tariffs china jad hreater access to our market than we do theirs which is a contributing factor to the $500 billion trade deficit we have with them

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In the US, the Chinese firms were allowed to compete with American firms under the American imposed rules. In the PRC, the American firms were allowed to compete with Chinese firms under the Chinese imposed rules. Changes to "the rules" (in either country) were negotiated between the governments of the two countries. If one of those countries was more eager to "buy X" than the other was to "sell X" then the prices of "X" - naturally differed between the two countries.

The American companies wanted access to the Chinese market more than the Chinese companies wanted access to the US market, so (under the law of supply and demand) the cost of buying access to the Chinese market was higher than the cost of buying access to the US market.

Regardless of "degree of access", the sole factor that determines a trade balance is whether "A" sells more to "B" than "A" buys from "B". The US simply doesn't have as much stuff to sell that the Chinese want to buy (at the prices the Americans want to be paid) as the Chinese have of stuff to sell that the Americans want to buy (at the prices the Chinese want to be paid).

 

[Bullseye]

And in related news: China has agreed to buy more soybeans and pork. Funny how that happens.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And in related news: China has agreed to buy more soybeans and pork. Funny how that happens.

<SARC>

"China agrees to up Soybean purchases to 17% of that they used to be"

"Only a really great negotiator like me could have achieved a really great negotiating victory like that through their really great negotiating skills!" says President Trump.
</SARC>​

 

[Bullseye]

<SARC>

"China agrees to up Soybean purchases to 17% of that they used to be"

"Only a really great negotiator like me could have achieved a really great negotiating victory like that through their really great negotiating skills!" says President Trump.
</SARC>​

And you think this is their last move? They've got food supply problems; that's miraculously just going to go away, right? But "Trump!:wicked:" :roll:

 

[trouble13]

In the US, the Chinese firms were allowed to compete with American firms under the American imposed rules. In the PRC, the American firms were allowed to compete with Chinese firms under the Chinese imposed rules. Changes to "the rules" (in either country) were negotiated between the governments of the two countries. If one of those countries was more eager to "buy X" than the other was to "sell X" then the prices of "X" - naturally differed between the two countries.

The American companies wanted access to the Chinese market more than the Chinese companies wanted access to the US market, so (under the law of supply and demand) the cost of buying access to the Chinese market was higher than the cost of buying access to the US market.

Regardless of "degree of access", the sole factor that determines a trade balance is whether "A" sells more to "B" than "A" buys from "B". The US simply doesn't have as much stuff to sell that the Chinese want to buy (at the prices the Americans want to be paid) as the Chinese have of stuff to sell that the Americans want to buy (at the prices the Chinese want to be paid).

Well im not gonna argue with you over it because i am far from an expert on this subject. I only have a rudimentry understanding of it which i outlined above.

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[dixon01767]

Too many of you hoping for economic doom of the United States in our trade dispute with China. Some kind of weird admiration for the communist state or just hatred of the US.

 

[Amelia]

Trump ready to agree to an interim deal which would leave us only 50% worse off than we were before he started his trade wars, instead of clawing at the walls of the bottomless pit that he was throwing America into.