Trump attacks: Students, Teachers, the Chronically Ill ,orphans and the homeless.

[Rich123]

Well even though Trump declares the tax cut/reform bill benefits the poor and middle class the facts don't really tell the same story. Without even talking about how the tax bill benefits the one percent and (DONORS) hugely, there are a few things I thought some of you might want to hear about ,if you haven't already.

#1 Teachers loose deduction for out of pocket class room supplies that they pay for.They currently can deduct up to $250.00/year yet typically the average out of pocket expense for teachers range around $530.00 per year.

#2 No more Life Time Learning Credits. Currently 20% of the first $10,000.00 spent on continuing education is deductible for $65,000.00 AGI for single payer and $131,000 AGI for married . This deduction will be eliminated.

#3 Elimination on deduction on interest on student loans . Currently you can take this deduction without itemizing and it allows for up to the deduction of $2500.00 per year of interest which can result in about $200.00 tax savings for a household.

#4 Makes employer contributed paid tuition for continuing education taxable to the recipient, currently exempts $5,250.00.

$5 No more medical expense deduction which currently allows for deducting medical expenses which exceed %10 of a households AGI. Because the threshold is set so high it is designed to benefit those who have chronic and or very serious illnesses.

#6 Adoption credit for people who adopt children through foster programs. Currently the credit is set at $13,570.00 per child.

#7 Property and Casualty credit for those who's homes were destroyed through some natural calamity such as a hurricane, etc. Losses currently have to exceed 10% of AGI.

So clearly we can all see how this tax package benefits the 99% . Trump often says this bill will not benefit him at all. It's a middle class tax break. Yippi, Yippi, Yippi.:lol::lol::lol::lol: He attacks even ORPHANS ,Chronically Ill AND THE HOMELESS. Regardless of what you might think of educators and students. Orphans, chronically ill and homeless. Gee! And he smiles and tells you how good this is for you. And he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and some would still vote for him.

 

[Phys251]

Oh, I can't wait to hear how our conservative and libertarian members will spin this. :x

 

[Kobie]

There’s really no way this tax bill could be worse.

 

[cuban smokes]

Clown Chaos will attack anything that doesn't scratch his goddamn ****ing ball sack the right ****ing direction ................. FFS .............

 

[Parrish]

And when there is a shortfall the first things to get hit will be SS and Medicare. Because, you know...the 1% need our help.

 

[Rich123]

And when there is a shortfall the first things to get hit will be SS and Medicare. Because, you know...the 1% need our help.

You are so correct! Republicans have historically run up the debt and use it as a ruse to cut entitlements. That is right out of the Scott Walker Playbook. (You can't have "Collective Bargaining" We can't afford it.) But Walker came into office with a budget surplus. Didn't take him long to squander that. That's the game plan all the time.

 

[Parrish]

You are so correct! Republicans have historically run up the debt and use it as a ruse to cut entitlements. That is right out of the Scott Walker Playbook. (You can't have "Collective Bargaining" We can't afford it.) But Walker came into office with a budget surplus. Didn't take him long to squander that. That's the game plan all the time.

As did G.W. Bush. And we know how that played out.

 

[Chomsky]

They (trump/GOP) are constrained by what they thought they could get away with in increasing the debt payment to increase the deficit.

CBO scored it as $1.5T added to the deficit, as long as the individual tax cuts (to make up for the removed individual deductions) end in 2023/27. Otherwise, the deficit shoots up much higher. And this is all predicated in their rich-guy tax cuts strongly stimulating the economy! If not, the deficit goes up even higher!

So we will have much lower revenue, and rising deficits, in a rising interest rate environment. But the deficit and debt can't increase past the 1.5T allotted! So we will then hit sequestration, and we start cutting Social Security, Medicaid, and other things the GOP don't like.

Cutting social programs is a big part of this, I believe. And now, they've (GOP) finally figured out how to do it; by law.

And of course Trump walks away with an estimated $1B+, when he signs on the dotted line. And the other Billionaires and Corps laugh all the way to the bank (a bank probably located in some other non-taxing country).

Great times in America, alright. And the populace stands idly by, with many not even understanding or caring about what's occurring. Kinda' makes you wonder if there should be an IQ or civic-participation test administered before one has kids, doesn't? 'Cuz I'm sure as hell not happy leaving my kids with this mess!

 

[Cisero]

Bump. I want to hear from the pro-Trump members of this forum. How can they justify the cuts in these programs ?

 

[joG]

Well even though Trump declares the tax cut/reform bill benefits the poor and middle class the facts don't really tell the same story. Without even talking about how the tax bill benefits the one percent and (DONORS) hugely, there are a few things I thought some of you might want to hear about ,if you haven't already.

#1 Teachers loose deduction for out of pocket class room supplies that they pay for.They currently can deduct up to $250.00/year yet typically the average out of pocket expense for teachers range around $530.00 per year.

#2 No more Life Time Learning Credits. Currently 20% of the first $10,000.00 spent on continuing education is deductible for $65,000.00 AGI for single payer and $131,000 AGI for married . This deduction will be eliminated.

#3 Elimination on deduction on interest on student loans . Currently you can take this deduction without itemizing and it allows for up to the deduction of $2500.00 per year of interest which can result in about $200.00 tax savings for a household.

#4 Makes employer contributed paid tuition for continuing education taxable to the recipient, currently exempts $5,250.00.

$5 No more medical expense deduction which currently allows for deducting medical expenses which exceed %10 of a households AGI. Because the threshold is set so high it is designed to benefit those who have chronic and or very serious illnesses.

#6 Adoption credit for people who adopt children through foster programs. Currently the credit is set at $13,570.00 per child.

#7 Property and Casualty credit for those who's homes were destroyed through some natural calamity such as a hurricane, etc. Losses currently have to exceed 10% of AGI.

So clearly we can all see how this tax package benefits the 99% . Trump often says this bill will not benefit him at all. It's a middle class tax break. Yippi, Yippi, Yippi.:lol::lol::lol::lol: He attacks even ORPHANS ,Chronically Ill AND THE HOMELESS. Regardless of what you might think of educators and students. Orphans, chronically ill and homeless. Gee! And he smiles and tells you how good this is for you. And he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and some would still vote for him.

It's always unpleasant to lose your allowance. And it is easier to just stay put as long as the cash comes in, doing thing under the radar. And we now have women having children, whose grandmothers were already living on dole. The system we have built is not so much unsocial. It is asocial in that it has stabilized victim culture. Our Good Human approach has not been good nor humane. It was the easy way to go and lazily excecuted. And now those paying the price are the ones we bred into poverty and crime.

The mess we have build will be difficult to fix.

 

[joG]

Bump. I want to hear from the pro-Trump members of this forum. How can they justify the cuts in these programs ?

I am not at all pro Trump. The contrary is true. But I would say that our well meant programs have not had the results we had thought. Again, the contrary is true. They have stabilized poverty and crime in some areas and groups. Just take the homicide rates by ethnicity. They are a disaster and an obvious warning light flashing.

Cutting the programs must be done for other reasons also, but they are costly and have afte fifty year of law, correcting law, correction of the correction etc wasted so much growth that it is terrible. Put to productive instead of consumptive use would have put us on a different travers and the socioeconomic level of welfare would certainly be higher.

 

[joG]

There’s really no way this tax bill could be worse.

Oh. But it could. It could increase subsidies of social programs. That would mean even more consumption at the cost of savings and more imports of cheap goods. But it would create jobs in Cambodia or Bangladesh.

 

[PleasantValley]

"attacks"?

 

[HowardBThiname]

.

#1 Teachers loose deduction for out of pocket class room supplies that they pay for.They currently can deduct up to $250.00/year yet typically the average out of pocket expense for teachers range around $530.00 per year.

That appears to be factual, but I'm not sure why teachers were allowed the credit in the first place. A carpenter who is an employee cannot deduct the cost of his hand tools, which he is often required to purchase himself, nor can other employees deduct the little extras they bring to their offices. I'm a firm believer in the idea that a good teacher can educate without extra bells and whistles, entertaining as they may be to the kids.

#2 No more Life Time Learning Credits. Currently 20% of the first $10,000.00 spent on continuing education is deductible for $65,000.00 AGI for single payer and $131,000 AGI for married . This deduction will be eliminated.

True, but it's being replaced by American Opportunity Tax Credit (AOTC), which the OP failed to mention.

#3 Elimination on deduction on interest on student loans . Currently you can take this deduction without itemizing and it allows for up to the deduction of $2500.00 per year of interest which can result in about $200.00 tax savings for a household.

This was also proposed by the Obama White House, according to the OP, that would mean Obama "attacked" students?

#4 Makes employer contributed paid tuition for continuing education taxable to the recipient, currently exempts $5,250.00.

This translates into financial benefit (income) for the student, so why should it not be subject to taxation? If we continue along the Obamacare lines, soon, the value of health insurance provided by the employer will also be subject to taxation. Bottom line, if a person receives something of value from an employer, it should be subject to taxation.

$5 No more medical expense deduction which currently allows for deducting medical expenses which exceed %10 of a households AGI. Because the threshold is set so high it is designed to benefit those who have chronic and or very serious illnesses.

This is unfortunate and a side effect of nationalized health care.

#6 Adoption credit for people who adopt children through foster programs. Currently the credit is set at $13,570.00 per child.

Complete hooey. This only benefits wealthy parents who can pay exorbitant fees to adopt newborns. Since there's a shortage of newborns (of the white variety), adoption fees for those infants are quite high.

However, this never benefited adoptions of older children or special needs kids that continue to languish in every state. Adopting foster kids is very low cost -- or free in many cases, so those parents were not helped. This should never have been a deduction because it benefits wealthy whites for the most part and leaves foster kids stuck in the system.

#7 Property and Casualty credit for those who's homes were destroyed through some natural calamity such as a hurricane, etc. Losses currently have to exceed 10% of AGI.

Not quite accurate. Those who suffered losses due to calamities in areas designated as needing federal relief, could still take the deduction.

If I wreck my car and it's not insured, should I get a credit for that?
If I invest in a company and it goes belly-up, should I get a credit for that?
If I take my expensive Mac laptop to the park and someone steals it -- should I get a credit for that?

Picking and choosing who deserves and doesn't deserve a credit when they suffer a loss is silly and counterproductive.

So clearly we can all see how this tax package benefits the 99% . Trump often says this bill will not benefit him at all. It's a middle class tax break. Yippi, Yippi, Yippi.:lol::lol::lol::lol: He attacks even ORPHANS ,Chronically Ill AND THE HOMELESS. Regardless of what you might think of educators and students. Orphans, chronically ill and homeless. Gee! And he smiles and tells you how good this is for you. And he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and some would still vote for him.

Orphans? Really? You understand what I posted above concerning adoption deductions? Those who adopt orphans won't be affected. Only those who adopt newborns from private agencies.

The orphans might actually benefit because the fiscal reward for adopting newborns is disappearing.

Keep in mind that, despite some of the above non-allowances, the standard deduction is set to double, which will offset most of the above in addition to helping the average Joe.

But, keep telling tall tales if it makes you happy.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Well even though Trump declares the tax cut/reform bill benefits the poor and middle class the facts don't really tell the same story. Without even talking about how the tax bill benefits the one percent and (DONORS) hugely, there are a few things I thought some of you might want to hear about ,if you haven't already.

#1 Teachers loose deduction for out of pocket class room supplies that they pay for.They currently can deduct up to $250.00/year yet typically the average out of pocket expense for teachers range around $530.00 per year.

#2 No more Life Time Learning Credits. Currently 20% of the first $10,000.00 spent on continuing education is deductible for $65,000.00 AGI for single payer and $131,000 AGI for married . This deduction will be eliminated.

#3 Elimination on deduction on interest on student loans . Currently you can take this deduction without itemizing and it allows for up to the deduction of $2500.00 per year of interest which can result in about $200.00 tax savings for a household.

#4 Makes employer contributed paid tuition for continuing education taxable to the recipient, currently exempts $5,250.00.

$5 No more medical expense deduction which currently allows for deducting medical expenses which exceed %10 of a households AGI. Because the threshold is set so high it is designed to benefit those who have chronic and or very serious illnesses.

#6 Adoption credit for people who adopt children through foster programs. Currently the credit is set at $13,570.00 per child.

#7 Property and Casualty credit for those who's homes were destroyed through some natural calamity such as a hurricane, etc. Losses currently have to exceed 10% of AGI.

So clearly we can all see how this tax package benefits the 99% . Trump often says this bill will not benefit him at all. It's a middle class tax break. Yippi, Yippi, Yippi.:lol::lol::lol::lol: He attacks even ORPHANS ,Chronically Ill AND THE HOMELESS. Regardless of what you might think of educators and students. Orphans, chronically ill and homeless. Gee! And he smiles and tells you how good this is for you. And he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and some would still vote for him.

Hyperbole much? What a brute... he attacks orphans! OMG

 

[Kobie]

Oh. But it could. It could increase subsidies of social programs. That would mean even more consumption at the cost of savings and more imports of cheap goods. But it would create jobs in Cambodia or Bangladesh.

What.

 

[MaggieD]

Well even though Trump declares the tax cut/reform bill benefits the poor and middle class the facts don't really tell the same story. Without even talking about how the tax bill benefits the one percent and (DONORS) hugely, there are a few things I thought some of you might want to hear about ,if you haven't already.

#1 Teachers loose deduction for out of pocket class room supplies that they pay for.They currently can deduct up to $250.00/year yet typically the average out of pocket expense for teachers range around $530.00 per year.

#2 No more Life Time Learning Credits. Currently 20% of the first $10,000.00 spent on continuing education is deductible for $65,000.00 AGI for single payer and $131,000 AGI for married . This deduction will be eliminated.

#3 Elimination on deduction on interest on student loans . Currently you can take this deduction without itemizing and it allows for up to the deduction of $2500.00 per year of interest which can result in about $200.00 tax savings for a household.

#4 Makes employer contributed paid tuition for continuing education taxable to the recipient, currently exempts $5,250.00.

$5 No more medical expense deduction which currently allows for deducting medical expenses which exceed %10 of a households AGI. Because the threshold is set so high it is designed to benefit those who have chronic and or very serious illnesses.

#6 Adoption credit for people who adopt children through foster programs. Currently the credit is set at $13,570.00 per child.

#7 Property and Casualty credit for those who's homes were destroyed through some natural calamity such as a hurricane, etc. Losses currently have to exceed 10% of AGI.

So clearly we can all see how this tax package benefits the 99% . Trump often says this bill will not benefit him at all. It's a middle class tax break. Yippi, Yippi, Yippi.:lol::lol::lol::lol: He attacks even ORPHANS ,Chronically Ill AND THE HOMELESS. Regardless of what you might think of educators and students. Orphans, chronically ill and homeless. Gee! And he smiles and tells you how good this is for you. And he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and some would still vote for him.

First, where’s the link?

Next, did anyone think tax reform wouldn’t gore a few oxen??

The adoption credit. Know how this is milked? The mother and father (if necessary) sign off their parental rights colluding with another family member who will take the child (children) out of foster care. Foster care does everything to keep children; with a family member when possible. The colluding family member is often one of the parents’ mother or sibling. Child stays with family, biological mother stays with family. Colluding family member receives a check from the gvmt for $13,000. While in foster care, not adopted yet, children are then diagnosed as being learning disabled, have ADHD perhaps, ADD, autistic perhaps, borderline autistic perhaps. The ultimate adoption by the colluding family member becomes a “subsidized adoption” and the state ends up paying the colluding family member a monthly check from the state. Of the two I know of, shirttail family, I believe one of their checks is somewhere around $1500 a month. The other one I know of, her husband passed away after the adoption. She received a Social Security check due to her adoptive daughter as a result of that death until age 18. Her adoptive mom passed away, and the biological dad took custody of the little girl and continued getting a monthly check until she reached 18.

Don’t know why those of us who DON’T receive employer education reimbursement would be happy that others do. If your employer hands you $5,000 to pay for schooling, the employer deducts it as an employee perk. Why would the employee get that money tax-free?? Actually, the same is true of employer-paid health insurance. Hundreds of millions of tax-free dollars to employees everywhere.

I address these two because they’re like shooting fish in a barrel. I could go on. Where is the comparable information on business tax reform?

 

[Rogue Valley]

The GOP can easily find an additional $118 billion for the 2018 military budget ($700 billion dollars), but can't find $15 billion to fund the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP).

 

[Praxas]

It's always unpleasant to lose your allowance. And it is easier to just stay put as long as the cash comes in, doing thing under the radar. And we now have women having children, whose grandmothers were already living on dole. The system we have built is not so much unsocial. It is asocial in that it has stabilized victim culture. Our Good Human approach has not been good nor humane. It was the easy way to go and lazily excecuted. And now those paying the price are the ones we bred into poverty and crime.

The mess we have build will be difficult to fix.

So the way we do that is to reward the already wealthy with more money and punish the poor? Wow man, I really wish the Republicans would just be honest about what they are doing. They should have run on the platform, we hate the poor and only want to reward the wealthy. At least then they would be honest.

 

[Rich123]

They (trump/GOP) are constrained by what they thought they could get away with in increasing the debt payment to increase the deficit.

CBO scored it as $1.5T added to the deficit, as long as the individual tax cuts (to make up for the removed individual deductions) end in 2023/27. Otherwise, the deficit shoots up much higher. And this is all predicated in their rich-guy tax cuts strongly stimulating the economy! If not, the deficit goes up even higher!

So we will have much lower revenue, and rising deficits, in a rising interest rate environment. But the deficit and debt can't increase past the 1.5T allotted! So we will then hit sequestration, and we start cutting Social Security, Medicaid, and other things the GOP don't like.

Cutting social programs is a big part of this, I believe. And now, they've (GOP) finally figured out how to do it; by law.

And of course Trump walks away with an estimated $1B+, when he signs on the dotted line. And the other Billionaires and Corps laugh all the way to the bank (a bank probably located in some other non-taxing country).

Great times in America, alright. And the populace stands idly by, with many not even understanding or caring about what's occurring. Kinda' makes you wonder if there should be an IQ or civic-participation test administered before one has kids, doesn't? 'Cuz I'm sure as hell not happy leaving my kids with this mess!

You've got it exactly correct. The one who will never pay a settlement if he knows he is right, so I guess he admitted he was wrong with Trump University ($25,000,000.00 settlement) has now figured out a way to get it all back by ten fold. Some folks believed his lies but now I think they are considering other possibilities. Others knew he was full of crap but thought he would still do their bidding. Give a con man nearly absolute power, you don't have the right to complain when he cons you again. But ultimately we all have the power if we all come together and make a hell of a lot of noise in Washington .We don't have much time. Find out what going on, how to get there, and then go, fight like hell. Because this is all of our futures. Who of you righties can afford to support a parent who's social security benefits have been slashed so that Rex Tillerson can keep more of his fortune? It's really coming down to that. Don't take anyone's word for that. Do your own reseach, then fight like hell.

 

[Rich123]

It's always unpleasant to lose your allowance. And it is easier to just stay put as long as the cash comes in, doing thing under the radar. And we now have women having children, whose grandmothers were already living on dole. The system we have built is not so much unsocial. It is asocial in that it has stabilized victim culture. Our Good Human approach has not been good nor humane. It was the easy way to go and lazily excecuted. And now those paying the price are the ones we bred into poverty and crime.

The mess we have build will be difficult to fix.

I see so the folks who loose their homes to hurricane were part of that lazy culture your referring to?

 

[Rich123]

Oh. But it could. It could increase subsidies of social programs. That would mean even more consumption at the cost of savings and more imports of cheap goods. But it would create jobs in Cambodia or Bangladesh.

Or it could and will increase subsidies for the corporate welfare class. Don't worry about the least of thee, feed the rich and they will trickle down on you.

 

[Rich123]

That appears to be factual, but I'm not sure why teachers were allowed the credit in the first place. A carpenter who is an employee cannot deduct the cost of his hand tools, which he is often required to purchase himself, nor can other employees deduct the little extras they bring to their offices. I'm a firm believer in the idea that a good teacher can educate without extra bells and whistles, entertaining as they may be to the kids.



True, but it's being replaced by American Opportunity Tax Credit (AOTC), which the OP failed to mention.



This was also proposed by the Obama White House, according to the OP, that would mean Obama "attacked" students?




This translates into financial benefit (income) for the student, so why should it not be subject to taxation? If we continue along the Obamacare lines, soon, the value of health insurance provided by the employer will also be subject to taxation. Bottom line, if a person receives something of value from an employer, it should be subject to taxation.



This is unfortunate and a side effect of nationalized health care.



Complete hooey. This only benefits wealthy parents who can pay exorbitant fees to adopt newborns. Since there's a shortage of newborns (of the white variety), adoption fees for those infants are quite high.

However, this never benefited adoptions of older children or special needs kids that continue to languish in every state. Adopting foster kids is very low cost -- or free in many cases, so those parents were not helped. This should never have been a deduction because it benefits wealthy whites for the most part and leaves foster kids stuck in the system.



Not quite accurate. Those who suffered losses due to calamities in areas designated as needing federal relief, could still take the deduction.

If I wreck my car and it's not insured, should I get a credit for that?
If I invest in a company and it goes belly-up, should I get a credit for that?
If I take my expensive Mac laptop to the park and someone steals it -- should I get a credit for that?

Picking and choosing who deserves and doesn't deserve a credit when they suffer a loss is silly and counterproductive.



Orphans? Really? You understand what I posted above concerning adoption deductions? Those who adopt orphans won't be affected. Only those who adopt newborns from private agencies.

The orphans might actually benefit because the fiscal reward for adopting newborns is disappearing.

Keep in mind that, despite some of the above non-allowances, the standard deduction is set to double, which will offset most of the above in addition to helping the average Joe.

But, keep telling tall tales if it makes you happy.

Okay I have checked a few of your assertions They are as follows:
#1 You assert that the educational deductions that the Trump bill will eliminate such as the :student interest deduction, Life time earning credit, The Hope Scholarship credit will be replaced by the American Opportunity Tax Credit.
This on it's face is disingenuous, because it's a half truth. First of all the AOTC is already law and Trump isn't initiating anything except for adding an additional year to it. Currently students can use the AOTC for four years and allows you to reclaim $2500.00 on a $4000.00 allowed expense . The Trump bill only adds one more year and allows one to get only $1250.00 on a $4000.00 allowable expense. So the Trump bill eliminates all the of the tax credits mentioned above and in return gives you $1250.00. To show how popular the AOTC is ,in 2015 12.4 million took the Interest deduction but only 6 million took the AOTC.

#2 You said that Obama tried to eliminate student interest deduction. All I did was follow the link you provided and found out again you were not telling the truth. Obama wanted to eliminate the interest deferral tax credit on the 529 college savings plans because it benefited mostly wealthy students. That's not the same as eliminating interest on student loans.

Lets have an honest discussion please.

 

[Chomsky]

You've got it exactly correct. The one who will never pay a settlement if he knows he is right, so I guess he admitted he was wrong with Trump University ($25,000,000.00 settlement) has now figured out a way to get it all back by ten fold. Some folks believed his lies but now I think they are considering other possibilities. Others knew he was full of crap but thought he would still do their bidding. Give a con man nearly absolute power, you don't have the right to complain when he cons you again. But ultimately we all have the power if we all come together and make a hell of a lot of noise in Washington .We don't have much time. Find out what going on, how to get there, and then go, fight like hell. Because this is all of our futures. Who of you righties can afford to support a parent who's social security benefits have been slashed so that Rex Tillerson can keep more of his fortune? It's really coming down to that. Don't take anyone's word for that. Do your own reseach, then fight like hell.

Of all his many deals, this is Trump's biggest ever - $1B.

I'd like to think he's laughing behind our backs, but he's not. He's too narcissistic and entitled. He believes he is owed this, and it is due him. Probably since he first fell out of the cradle with a silver spoon in his mouth, with a trust fund and Ivy League education waiting for him.

 

[apdst]

Oh, I can't wait to hear how our conservative and libertarian members will spin this. :x

Try this on for size: none of that affects me.