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Trump’s Quid Pro Quo Is Unconstitutional

LOL, Uh, no. He clarified what he said. And again the President of Ukraine says he felt no pressure to do anything AND he was unaware at the time of the conversion that military aid was being delayed.

You say clarified, I say backtracked.

The President of Ukraine isn't in a position to contradict the President at this point, as Trump has already shown hes willing to play fast and loose with the funding and it would be a serious risk to HIS national security to say anything otherwise. Sure he said he didn't feel pressure....but you will notice that that statement wasn't that Trump DIDN'T make the very request he is being accused of.
 
We've been all over this **** in other threads. Cherry-picking a few seconds proves nothing. He later clarified that there was no quid pro quo.

Who cherry picked anything? Did he say it or didn't he?

Telling the truth by accident seems to be a problem in this administration.
 
Believe what you wish.


What a strange comment. You're the one who seems to need to believe that CNN didn't cover Mulvaney's backpedal, which was terribly silly of you because it was widely reported across mainstream media. Mulvaney even took blows from Fox over it.

Some of CNN's reporting from three days ago: Mick Mulvaney tried to walk back his remarks on the withheld Ukrainian aid. Here'''s why.

Chris Wallace on Fox not letting Mulvaney get away with pretending it didn't happen: Chris Wallace Grills Mick Mulvaney On Ukraine Quid-Pro-Quo: "You Said What You Said," Did You Offer To Resign? | Video | RealClearPolitics
 
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Uh, no. Whst he said happened is the textbook definition of a quid pro quo.
No, it's not. A quid pro quo is a DEAL between two parties, not a decision made in a White House conference. IF Trump had said to Zelensky "unless you investigate Biden, I won't give you the money" THAT would have been a quid pro quo. And by the way quid pro quo's are not de facto illegal; that's what Mulvaney meant when he said "we do it all the time".
 
What a strange comment. You're the one who seems to need to believe that CNN didn't cover Mulvaney's backpedal, which was terribly silly of you because it was widely reported across mainstream media. Mulvaney even took blows from FOX over it.

Some of CNN's reporting from three days ago: Mick Mulvaney tried to walk back his remarks on the withheld Ukrainian aid. Here'''s why.

Chris Wallace on FOX not letting Mulvaney get away with pretending it didn't happen: Chris Wallace Grills Mick Mulvaney On Ukraine Quid-Pro-Quo: "You Said What You Said," Did You Offer To Resign? | Video | RealClearPolitics
And . . .?

Looks to me like Mulvaney cleared it up quite nicely. Wallace doesn't seem to grasp that there's a difference between members of the administration discussion aid and reasons to hold it up and telling Zelenkski - "start that damn investigation or your won't get the aid" - which WOULD comprise a quid pro quo.
 
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And . . .?


LOL ... you believe what you want to believe. I don't need to pretend that the media isn't covering Trump and his spokespeople digging their holes deeper and deeper. You apparently do need to.
 
LOL ... you believe what you want to believe. I don't need to pretend that the media isn't covering Trump and his spokespeople digging their holes deeper and deeper. You apparently do need to.
What they're "reporting" is massive spin for low intelligence viewers. It appears to be working.
 
They are just replaying what he said. I'm not sure what spin you are talking about.

Hey, being a Trump water carrier is a tricky job. He's doing the best he can.
 
It's not bribery at all, it's extortion at the highest levels. The actual crimes Trump committed between Ukraine and China could land him in prison for at least 10 years.

Take 18 U.S. Code § 872: “Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.” It’s not hard to grasp:

“Whoever, being an officer, or employee of the United States or any department or agency thereof, or representing himself to be or assuming to act as such, under color or pretense of office or employment commits or attempts an act of extortion, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

The law describes extortion as “the extraction of anything of value from another person by threatening or placing that person in fear of injury to any person or kidnapping of any person.” Was the Ukrainian president, or any other person, put in “fear of injury” by Trump’s move? As Trump’s envoys made clear in their since-disclosed text messages, Ukraine’s cooperation in the investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden was driven by the promise of a White House visit for President Volodymyr Zelensky and the threat of withholding military aid. That’s not just wrong, it’s also a felony, as the president and other Ukrainians no doubt had “fear of injury.”

In the meantime, Trump has said that he will refuse to cooperate with lawful subpoenas -- itself a prima facie violation of 2 U.S. Code § 192, “Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,” punishable by a year in prison.

It’s also illegal, according to 18 U.S. Code § 595, when a government official, “in connection with any activity which is financed in whole or in part by loans or grants made by the United States, or any department or agency thereof, uses his official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President.” That statute could add another year to the sentence.

I am sorry-- but this is nuts.

1. All negotiations with foreign countries involve quid pro quo-- one side says I want this and they other side says what will you give.

2. The impeachment inquiry is not a criminal investigation. Trump can refuse a subpoena and fight it in court.

3. Candidates for president are not immune from being investigated. We learned that in 2016.
 
They are just replaying what he said. I'm not sure what spin you are talking about.
He never said "quid pro quo", did he? One, semi-literate reporter used it incorrectly. Mulvaney admitted he could have phrased his answer better. But the amazing ignorance of the meaning of "quid pro quo" still runs amok.
 
Hey, being a Trump water carrier is a tricky job. He's doing the best he can.

The craziest part about this is Mulvaney trying to convince people that he didn't actually say what he said. It's on tape, genio.....we can run it back a thousand times and the words don't change. Hell, he could actually spin it as a one off and a misinterpretation if he hadn't uttered the phrase, "we do this all the time."
 
None of which applies to Trump's discussions with Zelenski. Where's the threat? All that's there is two heads of state discussing cooperation in investigating corruption. The fact that one on the persons of interest MAY be a political opponent a year from now is immaterial. That person admitted to the extortion you quote above.

Ukraine had their aid frozen specifically because Trump wanted it that way. It's must easier to 'convince' a newly elected Ukrainian president to do him "a favor though"when he knew very well that the Ukrainians were desperate people under continual assault by Russian troops -- and with little defense against them. In that respect, knowing people's vulnerabilities and weaknesses, Trump was a Master. Congress was pushing Trump, demanding answers to why the money wasn't given to Ukraine immediately after the bill was approved by congress, they all knew how vulnerable and anguished the Ukrainians were -- having had more than 13,000 of their people killed by the Russians already.

Where's the threat you ask? Here's the threat. Trump wants a foreign government to help him create a fake scandal against the Democrat who is most likely to oppose and defeat him in the 2020 elections. In other words, Trump wants a foreign government to interfere with the American elections. How do we know that was a threat? As Michael Cohen has stated in his sworn testimony, Donald Trump never 'ordered' him to do illegal things but he always knew what it was that Trump wanted. He did this same type of subtle coercion with Zelensky on that phone call.

He told the Ukranian President how much the U.S.has done for his country, then asks a favor right after. Zelensky: Yes, we want to buy Javelins. If someone did that with you, wouldn’t you feel a slight bit of pressure or an obligation to do what they wanted in return? "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine… There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you are surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it." Really? Now William Barr is a part of this extortion as well.

Trump trashed a career diplomat and former U.S. Ambassador to the Ukraine, calling her “bad news.” Since when do President’s trash a respected career U.S. diplomat to a foreign leader? Shouldn’t the President be supporting our State Department and Ambassadors?

He asked the Ukrainian leader to search for the missing DNC server, which conspiracy theorists have claimed is in the Ukraine. There is no credible evidence the server is there. In fact, there is no server. The alleged server was in fact 140 mostly-cloud based systems. Trump also mentions CloudStrike (although how it’s used in context makes no sense), a cybersecurity firm based in California that investigated the hack of the DNC systems Trump in the past claimed CrowdStrike was owned by a Ukrainian; it’s not.

Mixed in at various stages is mention of Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudi Guiliani, being involved. Why the hell is Trump’s personal lawyer involved in diplomatic matters with foreign governments? And why does he keep mentioning Barr being involved in pursuing these favors? Do you really think it’s appropriate for the AG to look into finding dirt on political opponents for the President?

This is extortion at the deepest levels of government. Actually forcing a foreign government who is highly vunverable and at their weakest point in their attempts at creating and keeping their country a democracy, to interfere in our 2020 election but even more than that go back to 2016 to prove he helped by the Ukraine government to win and Putin is all free and clear of those allegations if Ukraine agreed to doing that.
 
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He never said "quid pro quo", did he? One, semi-literate reporter used it incorrectly. Mulvaney admitted he could have phrased his answer better. But the amazing ignorance of the meaning of "quid pro quo" still runs amok.

So he has to say quid pro quo to actually be speaking of something that is a quid pro quo.

Interesting.....by that logic, I would like you to tell me what I am speaking of in this statement:

It is a transportation item that involves getting into a pressurized cabin and taking that item to a cruising altitude of 37K feet to get from one point to another rather quickly.
 
I am sorry-- but this is nuts.

1. All negotiations with foreign countries involve quid pro quo-- one side says I want this and they other side says what will you give.

2. The impeachment inquiry is not a criminal investigation. Trump can refuse a subpoena and fight it in court.

3. Candidates for president are not immune from being investigated. We learned that in 2016.

What you described is a 'legal' quid pro quo. What Trump tried to extort from Zelensky is an illegal quid pro quo.

I thought Trump was all about "transparency" ? He has blocked every person from testifying, they have defied Congressional subpoenas and Trump has boldly stated that the White House will not cooperate. Where's the transparency he declares he wants?

There has to be a substantive reason to investigate anyone, otherwise, it's a witch hunt.
 
Ukraine had their aid frozen specifically because Trump wanted it that way. It's must easier to 'convince' a newly elected Ukrainian president to do him "a favor though"when he knew very well that the Ukrainians were desperate people under continual assault by Russian troops -- and with little defense against them. In that respect, knowing people's vulnerabilities and weaknesses, Trump was a Master. Congress was pushing Trump, demanding answers to why the money wasn't given to Ukraine immediately after the bill was approved by congress, they all knew how vulnerable and anguished the Ukrainians were -- having had more than 13,000 of their people killed by the Russians already.

Where's the threat you ask? Here's the threat. Trump wants a foreign government to help him create a fake scandal against the Democrat who is most likely to oppose and defeat him in the 2020 elections. In other words, Trump wants a foreign government to interfere with the American elections. How do we know that was a threat? As Michael Cohen has stated in his sworn testimony, Donald Trump never 'ordered' him to do illegal things but he always knew what it was that Trump wanted. He did this same type of subtle coercion with Zelensky on that phone call.

He told the Ukranian President how much the U.S.has done for his country, then asks a favor right after. Zelensky: Yes, we want to buy Javelins. If someone did that with you, wouldn’t you feel a slight bit of pressure or an obligation to do what they wanted in return? "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine… There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you are surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it." Really? Now William Barr is a part of this extortion as well.

Trump trashed a career diplomat and former U.S. Ambassador to the Ukraine, calling her “bad news.” Since when do President’s trash a respected career U.S. diplomat to a foreign leader? Shouldn’t the President be supporting our State Department and Ambassadors?

He asked the Ukrainian leader to search for the missing DNC server, which conspiracy theorists have claimed is in the Ukraine. There is no credible evidence the server is there. In fact, there is no server. The alleged server was in fact 140 mostly-cloud based systems. Trump also mentions CloudStrike (although how it’s used in context makes no sense), a cybersecurity firm based in California that investigated the hack of the DNC systems Trump in the past claimed CrowdStrike was owned by a Ukrainian; it’s not.

Mixed in at various stages is mention of Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudi Guiliani, being involved. Why the hell is Trump’s personal lawyer involved in diplomatic matters with foreign governments? And why does he keep mentioning Barr being involved in pursuing these favors? Do you really think it’s appropriate for the AG to look into finding dirt on political opponents for the President?

This is extortion at the deepest levels of government. Actually forcing a foreign government who is highly vunverable and at their weakest point in their attempts at creating and keeping their country a democracy, to interfere in our 2020 election but even more than that go back to 2016 to prove he helped by the Ukraine government to win and Putin is all free and clear of those allegation is Ukraine agreed to doing that.

And yet we still have Biden on tape boasting about extorting Ukraine to fire a prosecutor at a time when they were fighting for their life from a Russian invasion...
 
What you described is a 'legal' quid pro quo. What Trump tried to extort from Zelensky is an illegal quid pro quo.

A request for assistance from a foreign government in an investigation is quite legitimate.
 
A request for assistance from a foreign government in an investigation is quite legitimate.

Investigate biden and I will give you the javelin missles.



That's bribery
 
A request for assistance from a foreign government in an investigation is quite legitimate.

Okay....lets pretend that what he wanted investigated hadn't already been investigated. He still has to recognize how its gonna look that for 3 years, this was a nothingburger to him, and all of a sudden, when Biden is the presumed frontrunner to oppose him in the next election, he holds up money from the very country who can investigate the issue and decides to send unelected, unnominated individuals to dig up dirt on his political rivals.

Bad look doesn't even cover it.
 
What you described is a 'legal' quid pro quo. What Trump tried to extort from Zelensky is an illegal quid pro quo.

I thought Trump was all about "transparency" ? He has blocked every person from testifying, they have defied Congressional subpoenas and Trump has boldly stated that the White House will not cooperate. Where's the transparency he declares he wants?

There has to be a substantive reason to investigate anyone, otherwise, it's a witch hunt.

Congress does not wish to be transparent. Why do you expect Trump to do so?
Impeachment is political. Trump is responding politically.
 
Okay....lets pretend that what he wanted investigated hadn't already been investigated. He still has to recognize how its gonna look that for 3 years, this was a nothingburger to him, and all of a sudden, when Biden is the presumed frontrunner to oppose him in the next election, he holds up money from the very country who can investigate the issue and decides to send unelected, unnominated individuals to dig up dirt on his political rivals.

Bad look doesn't even cover it.

Nothing wrong with looking for dirt on political opponents in foreign countries. This was kind of established with the Steele Dossier.

There currently is an investigation into the origin of the Russia probe. Ukraine is mixed up in it to some extent. Perhaps looking at Hunter Biden is part of that-- ' getting little fish to turn on big fish.'
 
And yet we still have Biden on tape boasting about extorting Ukraine to fire a prosecutor at a time when they were fighting for their life from a Russian invasion...

You STILL don't understand that? Joe Biden, as VP of the United States was the point-man for the EU, for the IMF and Europe. They were ALL guaranteeing loans to Ukraine and those monies were disappearing into the pockets of corrupt Ukrainian politicians. They all knew it, and they all had had enough of this unfettered corruption and sick and tired of filtering their good money into the hands of those people they knew were taking it. Joe Biden was holding the biggest piece of the Ukrainian government money and he was speaking for all of them, the EU, the IMF and Europe when he demanded that the corruption either come to an end or their money would dry up from everyone.
 
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