Trump’s acting chief of staff admits it: There was a Ukraine quid pro quo

[Atomic Kid]

Keep that fantasy going. And keep your eyes closed as Pelosi tries to claim they are a running an impeachment. With no Republicans involved, no disclosure of anything, cherry picking what they release, the President's lawyers not able to attend, and secret testimony.

Every other impeachment process has been wide open, everything disclosed, and the entire House involved. This one is all Democrats and in secret meetings. Banana republic stuff, nothing like anything that's ever happened in the country.

And the left doesn't have the fortitude to ask why. Why so secretive and closed? What are the afraid of? Of course, we know.

No they haven't. They have all been rooted in partisan opposition from Congress. But it's the severity of the alleged offense that makes the difference as to how far it progresses.

 

[Jonsa]

Keep that fantasy going. And keep your eyes closed as Pelosi tries to claim they are a running an impeachment. With no Republicans involved, no disclosure of anything, cherry picking what they release, the President's lawyers not able to attend, and secret testimony.

Every other impeachment process has been wide open, everything disclosed, and the entire House involved. This one is all Democrats and in secret meetings. Banana republic stuff, nothing like anything that's ever happened in the country.

And the left doesn't have the fortitude to ask why. Why so secretive and closed? What are the afraid of? Of course, we know.

why is it that Trump and his supporters don't seem to have a grasp of how the impeachment process works. The house is currently running the equivalent of a number of grand juries (each committee). If articles of impeach result from the investigation (guaranteed) then the accused will have his opportunity to call witnesses and cross examine and all that others stuff when the Impeach TRIAL begins in the senate.

I'll leave the fantasies to you.

 

[NWRatCon]

why is it that Trump and his supporters don't seem to have a grasp of how the impeachment process works. The house is currently running the equivalent of a number of grand juries (each committee). If articles of impeach result from the investigation (guaranteed) then the accused will have his opportunity to call witnesses and cross examine and all that others stuff when the Impeach TRIAL begins in the senate.

They don't care how the impeachment process works, any more than they care about the law, the Constitution, logic, reason, truth, etc. They want a result, they don't care how they get there - lying, cheating, distractions, fraud. None of it matters. It's like arguing with a brick, except one has a chance of reasoning with a brick.

 

[NWRatCon]

Not really, you guys make it tremendously easy when you refuse to take emotion and bias out of the equation.

When you strictly rely on FACTS, and not innuendo, or hearsay, or what abouts, or what ifs, there's nothing much left.

He's absolutely crass, can be idiotic, doesn't think before he speaks, and guess what, HALF the population is ok with that, probably more than half, but you wouldn't know, because you drown everything out you don't like.

That is about the most hypocritical, reverse-logic, projective thing I've read today. Unless, of course, you're admitting that facts are irrelevant to Trump's defense? Since innuendo, or hearsay, or what abouts, or what ifs, distraction, prevarication, blatant falsehoods and fantastical thinking are the only things that Trump supporters have to add to the discussion. At least we can agree that "He's absolutely crass, can be idiotic, doesn't think before he speaks, and guess what, HALF the population is ok with that" - except, it is only about 30% of the population, outside of the contingent of Trump acolytes that flood this particular forum.

 

[ClaraD]

definitely CNN...The Most Trusted Name in News...:roll:

Definitely not Fox Entertainment

 

[Mach]

With no Republicans involved

Equal numbers of Democrats and Republican are involved.
Equal time is given to their question time of witnesses.

Why lies? Because your party can only be supported if you guys lie 24/7? Isn't that a clue somethings wrong with your candidate/party?

Investigations like this must be secret, to avoid people coordinating testimony, to protect classified information, and to avoid tipping off any ongoing attempts to obstruct, etc., exactly what they know.
The *trial* will be public, and the defense will have the evidence, just like in any other trial.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Keep that fantasy going. And keep your eyes closed as Pelosi tries to claim they are a running an impeachment. With no Republicans involved, no disclosure of anything, cherry picking what they release, the President's lawyers not able to attend, and secret testimony.

Every other impeachment process has been wide open, everything disclosed, and the entire House involved. This one is all Democrats and in secret meetings. Banana republic stuff, nothing like anything that's ever happened in the country.

And the left doesn't have the fortitude to ask why. Why so secretive and closed? What are the afraid of? Of course, we know.

Laughably dishonest and transparent bull****, and no lawyers from the POTUS have any business being at those closed-door hearings at this point. That's how impeachment works, since you seem to be unaware of that. They get their chance in the senate.

What's got you so confused?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

With no Republicans involved

This isn't true. The Republicans are able to attend the hearings and ask any questions they want. They just aren't in the driver's seat with regard to which witnesses are being called to testify. This reason why the Republicans do not get to call the shots is that they are in the minority. The reason why Republicans are in the minority is that voters like myself realized they weren't going to hold Trump accountable for anything and decided to give the House to the Democrats.

Every other impeachment process has been wide open

I think it's probably true that every...OTHER..impeachment inquiry has been wide open. That is probably accurate.

And the left doesn't have the fortitude to ask why. Why so secretive and closed? What are they afraid of? Of course, we know.

It's important to remember this stage of the process is much more like a grand jury investigation. During grand jury investigations, there is no requirement, or right, or rule, which would allow a suspect to conduct an investigation of the investigators, or intentionally slow down the process, or to assert the same sorts of due process rights they'd have in a trial. This claptrap the Republicans keep pushing is a red herring and has no analogy in criminal law.

Schiff made a great point in a letter he wrote to his colleagues last week. The Clinton and Nixon impeachment inquiries had the benefit of a special prosecutor or independent prosecutor conducting a thorough investigation beforehand. This time around, there is no such investigation to lean on. The DOJ tried to bury this. And the witnesses need to be interviewed in closed hearings like this to prevent them from aligning their testimonies.

And the left doesn't have the fortitude to ask why. Why so secretive and closed? What are the afraid of? Of course, we know.

What I'd like to know is why the White House is so secretive and is not complying with any subpoenas or why they keep trying to keep people from testifying. What are they afraid of? What is Trump afraid of?

 

[NWRatCon]

Claim: "Every other impeachment process has been wide open" - is just false. It's part of a lie-fest that is orchestrated by Trump and his acolytes. Let's go all the way back to 1973:

An impeachment process against Richard Nixon began in the United States House of Representatives on October 30, 1973, following the "Saturday Night Massacre" episode of the Watergate scandal. The House Judiciary Committee set up an impeachment inquiry staff and began investigations into possible impeachable offenses by Richard Nixon, the 37th President of the United States. The process was formally initiated on February 6, 1974, when the House of Representatives passed a resolution, H.Res. 803, giving the Judiciary Committee authority to investigate whether sufficient grounds existed to impeach Nixon[1] of high crimes and misdemeanors, primarily related to Watergate. This investigation was undertaken one year after the United States Senate established a select committee to investigate the 1972 break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C., and the Nixon Administration's attempted cover-up of its involvement.

(Wikipedia)

It was the Clinton impeachment process that was "unusual", historically:

Since Ken Starr had already completed an extensive investigation, the House Judiciary Committee conducted no investigations of its own into Clinton's alleged wrongdoing, and it held no serious impeachment-related hearings before the 1998 midterm elections. Nevertheless, impeachment was one of the major issues in the election.
....
Impeachment proceedings were initiated during the post-election, "lame duck" session of the outgoing 105th United States Congress. Unlike the case of the 1974 impeachment process against Richard Nixon, the committee hearings were perfunctory but the floor debate in the whole House was spirited on both sides.

(Wikipedia)

There's an old saying in the law, "when the facts are against you, argue the law" - but in the modern context for Trump sycophants, it is, "when the facts are against you, fake the facts."

 

[NWRatCon]

There is an issue that is currently being overlooked in this current impeachment frenzy. Anyone notice the date? It's October 20. The federal fiscal year ended in 20 days ago. Congress is already behind schedule for the 2020 budget/appropriations process.

Congress did not complete action on appropriations before the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30. The House passed a continuing resolution (CR) on Sept. 19 that funds the government through Nov. 21, which the Senate passed on Sept. 26 and President Trump signed on Sept. 27. The House and Senate, meanwhile, are expected to use the next few weeks to continue negotiations on full appropriations for the rest of FY 2020. A package of four appropriations bills stalled in the Senate in September, but nine appropriations bills may advance the week of Oct. 21 through procedural votes on two "minibus" packages.

Appropriations Watch: FY 2020 (CFRB)

Remember what happened last year? Trump created a partial shutdown for 35 days to try to force Congress to pay for his wall (it didn't work). That was just a campaign issue. Think what he's likely to do to protect himself now. I expect him to engage in hostage-taking to try to derail his impeachment. He's already created a war in Syria and a controversy about the G-7 summit to distract the public. He has more hostages available than the Sinaloa cartel at his disposal. Don't expect him not to use them.

 

[Jonsa]

There is an issue that is currently being overlooked in this current impeachment frenzy. Anyone notice the date? It's October 20. The federal fiscal year ended in 20 days ago. Congress is already behind schedule for the 2020 budget/appropriations process. Appropriations Watch: FY 2020 (CFRB)

Remember what happened last year? Trump created a partial shutdown for 35 days to try to force Congress to pay for his wall (it didn't work). That was just a campaign issue. Think what he's likely to do to protect himself now. I expect him to engage in hostage-taking to try to derail his impeachment. He's already created a war in Syria and a controversy about the G-7 summit to distract the public. He has more hostages available than the Sinaloa cartel at his disposal. Don't expect him not to use them.

He'll undoubtedly do even more damage as he goes down in flames, but his lyin' fat arse is toast.

 

[sjmay]

That is about the most hypocritical, reverse-logic, projective thing I've read today. Unless, of course, you're admitting that facts are irrelevant to Trump's defense? Since innuendo, or hearsay, or what abouts, or what ifs, distraction, prevarication, blatant falsehoods and fantastical thinking are the only things that Trump supporters have to add to the discussion. At least we can agree that "He's absolutely crass, can be idiotic, doesn't think before he speaks, and guess what, HALF the population is ok with that" - except, it is only about 30% of the population, outside of the contingent of Trump acolytes that flood this particular forum.

So then, if the facts are out there....and the Democrats have them like they say they do...

AND it's only 30% support,

What the hell are they waiting for?

 

[Anthony60]

No they haven't. They have all been rooted in partisan opposition from Congress. But it's the severity of the alleged offense that makes the difference as to how far it progresses.

Most secretive so called impeachment attempt ever.

 

[Anthony60]

why is it that Trump and his supporters don't seem to have a grasp of how the impeachment process works. The house is currently running the equivalent of a number of grand juries (each committee). If articles of impeach result from the investigation (guaranteed) then the accused will have his opportunity to call witnesses and cross examine and all that others stuff when the Impeach TRIAL begins in the senate.

I'll leave the fantasies to you.

LOL, don't have a grasp of how impeachment works??? You are describing the Democrats. Actually, they know how it works, all to well. That's why they are trying to fool people with the propaganda campaign that they are labeling impeachment. They know they have no chance of running an impeachment by the rules.

 

[Anthony60]

Equal numbers of Democrats and Republican are involved.
Equal time is given to their question time of witnesses.

Why lies? Because your party can only be supported if you guys lie 24/7? Isn't that a clue somethings wrong with your candidate/party?

Investigations like this must be secret, to avoid people coordinating testimony, to protect classified information, and to avoid tipping off any ongoing attempts to obstruct, etc., exactly what they know.
The *trial* will be public, and the defense will have the evidence, just like in any other trial.

Yeah, sure. Impeachment needs to done in secret. Wow, that's a good one. Do you think they'll let us know if he's been removed?

 

[Anthony60]

Laughably dishonest and transparent bull****, and no lawyers from the POTUS have any business being at those closed-door hearings at this point. That's how impeachment works, since you seem to be unaware of that. They get their chance in the senate.

What's got you so confused?

In all other impeachment proceedings, there was a full House vote to authorize an inquiry. So, why not now? What's the problem?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

In all other impeachment proceedings, there was a full House vote to authorize an inquiry. So, why not now? What's the problem?

That's not true.

White House Letter Distorts Both Law and History on Impeachment

 

[Anthony60]

This isn't true. The Republicans are able to attend the hearings and ask any questions they want. They just aren't in the driver's seat with regard to which witnesses are being called to testify. This reason why the Republicans do not get to call the shots is that they are in the minority. The reason why Republicans are in the minority is that voters like myself realized they weren't going to hold Trump accountable for anything and decided to give the House to the Democrats.
I think it's probably true that every...OTHER..impeachment inquiry has been wide open. That is probably accurate.

It's important to remember this stage of the process is much more like a grand jury investigation. During grand jury investigations, there is no requirement, or right, or rule, which would allow a suspect to conduct an investigation of the investigators, or intentionally slow down the process, or to assert the same sorts of due process rights they'd have in a trial. This claptrap the Republicans keep pushing is a red herring and has no analogy in criminal law.

Schiff made a great point in a letter he wrote to his colleagues last week. The Clinton and Nixon impeachment inquiries had the benefit of a special prosecutor or independent prosecutor conducting a thorough investigation beforehand. This time around, there is no such investigation to lean on. The DOJ tried to bury this. And the witnesses need to be interviewed in closed hearings like this to prevent them from aligning their testimonies.

What I'd like to know is why the White House is so secretive and is not complying with any subpoenas or why they keep trying to keep people from testifying. What are they afraid of? What is Trump afraid of?

You know this isn't a grand jury, right? Those rules don't apply. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. The entire House can impeach, not a handful of Democrats in committees. So, there really isn't any impeachment happening yet. It's just Pelosi trying to mislead the public about impeachment.

 

[NWRatCon]

You know this isn't a grand jury, right? Those rules don't apply. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. The entire House can impeach, not a handful of Democrats in committees. So, there really isn't any impeachment happening yet. It's just Pelosi trying to mislead the public about impeachment.

Why is it that some people believe that if you repeat the same lie over and over it is supposed to be more persuasive?

 

[tres borrachos]

Tell me again why you brought Barr up if the allegation is from 2016?

Because Barr is the head of the DOJ. Or did you not know that?

The allegation, aka conspiracy theory, from 2016 is that Ukraine has the DNC server, and Barr is investigating that. Why investigate a real crime accusation when you can cover for Trumpy and investigate conspiracy theories, right?

 

[Moderate Right]

[h=1]Trump’s acting chief of staff admits it: There was a Ukraine quid pro quo[/h]
After weeks of President Trump and the White House suggesting there was no quid pro quo when it came to Trump asking Ukraine to launch specific investigations, acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney came out Thursday and admitted there was.

He just insisted it wasn’t a corrupt one.

In a news conference, Mulvaney for the first time conceded that the lack of a Ukrainian inquiry into the origins of the Russia investigation played a role in the United States withholding military aid from it over “corruption” issues.

"I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ney-admits-it-there-was-ukraine-quid-pro-quo/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The quid pro quo involved Barisma and the Bidens'. And no Mick, we are not going to "get over it." The DOJ has already sent out a press release to all news outlets. "If there was a quid pro quo, we knew nothing about it"

And Hunter Biden admits that he wouldn't have gotten those jobs in Ukraine if it weren't for his last name. And, a US Diplomat warned Biden about his son in 2015 and was turned away.

 

[tres borrachos]

And Hunter Biden admits that he wouldn't have gotten those jobs in Ukraine if it weren't for his last name. And, a US Diplomat warned Biden about his son in 2015 and was turned away.

Trump wouldn't have been President if it was not for his last name. He wouldn't have been famous if not for his father loaning him hundreds of millions of dollars. He parlayed that money into fame. When he ran for Presidents, idiots knew his name from his reality TV days and voted for him. So what?

None of that has to do with a quid pro quo to investigate the son of his political rival.

 

[HumblePi]

And Hunter Biden admits that he wouldn't have gotten those jobs in Ukraine if it weren't for his last name. And, a US Diplomat warned Biden about his son in 2015 and was turned away.

And neither Jared Kushner, without a spec of government experience and Ivanka Trump without clear and legal connections with the 'powers that be' in the Chinese government would have profited financially if they had no relationships with the president of the United States.

 

[Jonsa]

LOL, don't have a grasp of how impeachment works??? You are describing the Democrats. Actually, they know how it works, all to well. That's why they are trying to fool people with the propaganda campaign that they are labeling impeachment. They know they have no chance of running an impeachment by the rules.

Yet another piece of compelling evidence to support the notion that trumpland is located in a mirror universe.

Not to mention that the ludicrous unsubstantiated nonsensical accusation of breaking impeachment "rules" is yet more evidence that facts don't matter when employing a willfully ignorant based defense.

 

[Jonsa]

You know this isn't a grand jury, right? Those rules don't apply. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. The entire House can impeach, not a handful of Democrats in committees. So, there really isn't any impeachment happening yet. It's just Pelosi trying to mislead the public about impeachment.

Amazing how an investigation takes place before an indictment - ain't it?